Art style

[derekticon]

Would love art direction to make references to art style of 80s PC and RPG (incl pen & paper games) - graphic user interface, dot-matrix (pixel?) art for VGA/CGA display, 8-bit looks. Such art reference can be part of in-game objects such as posters, or simulated displays of computer graphic displays (i.e. computers in wasteland world has output visual displays similar to what we had during the 80s and early 90s)

if fallout was about art deco retro, maybe wasteland can be 80s technology/new wave/cyberpunk retro-nostalgia

[kurosawa]

My computer is built for gaming so that is no problem for me but I can completely understand that you are concerned about the game using up too much resource. However, as I already said Isometric uses much less detailed environment as we see them from farther away and with proper optimization such games can run on old hardware just fine, I think Torchlight on it's lowest settings could run just fine on weak machines and still look half decent.

I also prefer a static camera view, so I wouldn't mind a pre-rendered background, but then I am no game developer so I wouldn't exactly know which would be the most viable option. I do however believe that stuff like animated backgounds ( moving river, bushes/trees affected by wind) or weather effect (rain, sandstorm etc..) , dynamic lightning ( for example when lighting matches in caves) could add a whole new dimension to the game without affecting performances too much, and these could be deactivated for lower end PCs.

It all depends on the kind of graphic power they are going to expect from their customer.

sure, my machine has also no problems running things like skyrim. my concerns are that realtime backgrounds would go on cost of detail and variety. i liked the detailed backgrounds in fallout 1-2, with all the garbage and ruins, stuff like that.

do you remember "the temple of elemental evil"? they used prerendered background and mixed them with realtime characters and realtime rendered effects and lightning. i dont believe if they rendered the whole in realtime, the scene could be so detailed.

http://picsee.net/upload/2011-12-11/2a9bf19887bd.jpeg
http://samouchka.net/uploads/posts/2009 ... 910af6.jpg
http://i019.radikal.ru/0712/b4/27a0815977d7.jpg

liked that style, that mix of techniques very much

[kurosawa]

Would love art direction to make references to art style of 80s PC and RPG (incl pen & paper games) - graphic user interface, dot-matrix (pixel?) art for VGA/CGA display, 8-bit looks. Such art reference can be part of in-game objects such as posters, or simulated displays of computer graphic displays (i.e. computers in wasteland world has output visual displays similar to what we had during the 80s and early 90s)

if fallout was about art deco retro, maybe wasteland can be 80s technology/new wave/cyberpunk retro-nostalgia

... thats an interesting point. i think the "art deco" style of fallout and bioshock is maxed out. we have seen this to often. stick with a post 80´s setting (80´s after the bomb) sounds interesting. also your retro-style, 8bit look suggestion.

[Psilos]

Never played it, but that game does date from 2003, but with modern hardware I don't think real time backgrounds are such an issue. If you look at games like Diablo 3 the amount of detail is just crazy, even stuff like Alien Swarm looked very decent, so I think there really isn't much to be worried about.

I also agree there is absolutely no reason to go for a retro 50s futuristic style, that would simply be ripping off the fallout franchise and the 80s have plenty enough stuff to make for an awesome setting what with all the New Wave and all, and it's stuff that people actually remember, because I don't think many people that lived through the 50s have played fallout.

[kurosawa]

Never played it, but that game does date from 2003, but with modern hardware I don't think real time backgrounds are such an issue. If you look at games like Diablo 3 the amount of detail is just crazy, even stuff like Alien Swarm looked very decent, so I think there really isn't much to be worried about.

2003
http://samouchka.net/uploads/posts/2009 ... 910af6.jpg


2012
http://www.mmospotlight.com/wp-content/ ... o_3_02.jpg

compare the detail..., the textures of the buildings.


btw. i read once that many guys that are responsible for the graphics of d3 are from the same team that made "the temple of elemental evil"

edit: one person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Boyarsky

[Psilos]

You might have realized that is not diablo 3 though.

These are : http://www.jeuxvideo.com/screenshots/images/00021/00021770_122.htm

[kurosawa]

You might have realized that is not diablo 3 though.

... oh, ok. sure, the other screens of d3 are looking good but i prefer the mood of the 2003 game
i also dont believe that a, lets say 2 million game, can be compared to a multi million game like that from blizzard.

it would look like that screen i posted, i fear.

[Psilos]

You might have realized that is not diablo 3 though.

... oh, ok. sure, the other screens of d3 are looking good but i prefer the mood of the 2003 game

I do not especially like the Diablo 3 art style either, I was merely saying that modern technology can very well render very nice looking environment in real time, of course the game would surely look better in action too, there are probably a few videos on youtube.

[Oesophagus]

Static backgrounds are a-okay in my book. I'd also be cautious about the rotating camera bit, because depending on how you implement it, it can create a lot more problems. If they made the camera say rotate the way it did in NVN, then you have the added trouble of not just having to make walls and floors, but also ceilings, and for a small team like this, it might be just an unnecessary distraction

[kurosawa]

You might have realized that is not diablo 3 though.

... oh, ok. sure, the other screens of d3 are looking good but i prefer the mood of the 2003 game

I do not especially like the Diablo 3 art style either, I was merely saying that modern technology can very well render very nice looking environment in real time, of course the game would surely look better in action too, there are probably a few videos on youtube.

... i have seen videos of d3. i still think that it lacks detail compared to the 2003 game i mentioned. but that ok for a game like diablo, where you rush through monster hordes and dont have the time to enjoy th surroundings.
i hope wl2 will be more than a dungeoncrawler. i want it to create a special mood, which is done with story and detailed background that telles astory of its own.
i am a fan of the concept design art, in which just one picture can tell you a complete story...

[Psilos]

You might have realized that is not diablo 3 though.

... oh, ok. sure, the other screens of d3 are looking good but i prefer the mood of the 2003 game
i also dont believe that a, lets say 2 million game, can be compared to a multi million game like that from blizzard.

it would look like that screen i posted, i fear.

Actually probably not, check out alien swarm it has really nice graphics and is free for anyone who owns a source engine game,
also Magicka is an indie game that has more than decent graphics. There are actually hundreds of Indie games with great graphics, so I am really not worried about the game ending up looking like shit.

And as for Diablo having less detail does not make much of a difference as it's simply that cluttered objects would hinder the fast paced action, it doesn't mean modern PCs can't handle it.

[kurosawa]

You might have realized that is not diablo 3 though.

... oh, ok. sure, the other screens of d3 are looking good but i prefer the mood of the 2003 game
i also dont believe that a, lets say 2 million game, can be compared to a multi million game like that from blizzard.

it would look like that screen i posted, i fear.

Actually probably not, check out alien swarm it has really nice graphics and is free for anyone who owns a source engine game,
also Magicka is an indie game that has more than decent graphics. There are actually hundreds of Indie games with great graphics, so I am really not worried about the game ending up looking like shit.

just had a look at alien swarm. are you serious? the backgrounds look to me like there were build as a arena. not much detail, full concentration to the (action)fights.

http://screenshots.en.sftcdn.net/en/scr ... 00x450.jpg
http://www.gossipgamers.com/wp-content/ ... swarm1.jpg

nice lightning but compare the detail with games like that

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KzslvHPSqNI/T ... 0/b261.jpg

[kurosawa]

ok, magicka looks better

http://www.thatgamerhub.com/wp-content/ ... -15-91.bmp
http://imag.malavida.com/mvimgbig/downl ... 8834-1.jpg

but far away from be detailed...

[Psilos]

Alien Swarm is a game were you quickly rush through hallways while blasting hundreds of aliens away, so obviously it won't have a lot of detailed props in those hallways, what it does have is quite nice lightning and rather decent graphics, what I am trying to tell you is that modern engine can easily handle real time environment, and these environments could easily be filled with a lot of detail without loosing much performance as instead of rushing through them while trampling hundreds of alien you would take your time to search the place and fight against limited number of enemies.

Alien swarm in action : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9NSnR3-rYI

[kurosawa]

Alien Swarm is a game were you quickly rush through hallways while blasting hundreds of aliens away, so obviously it won't have a lot of detailed props in those hallways, what it does have is quite nice lightning and rather decent graphics, what I am trying to tell you is that modern engine can easily handled real time environment, and these environments could easily be filled with a lot of detail without loosing much performance as instead of rushing through them while trampling hundreds of alien you would take your time to search the place and fight against limited number of enemies.

...sure. it could be possible. but i havent seen a realtime isometric game, that had the detail of a prerendered one, so far
we will see what time will bring...

[Psilos]

...sure. it could be possible. but i havent seen a realtime isometric game, that had the detail of a prerendered one, so far
we will see what time will bring...

That's probably because there has been very few isometric games in the last years. But the technology definitely allows it, so there is no reason Wateland 2 should not use 3D and look amazing.

[kurosawa]

...sure. it could be possible. but i havent seen a realtime isometric game, that had the detail of a prerendered one, so far
we will see what time will bring...

That's probably because there has been very few isometric games in the last years. But the technology definitely allows it, so there is no reason Wateland 2 should not use 3D and look amazing.

i want it to look detailed, not just amazing like nice lightning and kaboom-effects. i think they will make it in complete realtime 3d. it would be nice to see it be the first game that uses that technique and will have detailed backgrounds.

[Comrade Snarky]

I'd love if the art direction took notes from the Tabletop RPG Package coverings, Comic books and Saturday morning TV shows of the early 80's - early 90's.
The original Wasteland was made smack-dab in the middle of that era (Some of the enemy designs show this), and it's a very nostalgic, very distinct place to take it.
Like i said in another thread. If the main art influence of Fallout was decided by the Plup fiction of the late 40's and 50's, let Wasteland do the same with the Young and Nuclear fear fiction of the early to mid 1980's.
As for the Graphic engine itself. I haven't seen Pre-renderd Graphics in years, mostly due to the processing power of game engines being now able to actually rendered backgrounds, despite me feeling Pre-renderding offered a sort of Charming Tinge to the overall game, like you were walking through the artwork itself I.E. many early PS1 and Late 90s PC games.
3D models are the way to go, as much i enjoy good sprite work.

[Hiver]

btw. i read once that many guys that are responsible for the graphics of d3 are from the same team that made "the temple of elemental evil"

edit: one person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Boyarsky

Dude, SER Leonard Boyarsky was not only one of the leads on TOEE, but Arcanum and all the rest of Troika games. And before that he was the art director on original Fallout and the art style, in every aspect, of Fallout is his work.
He created it. Of course with the rest of the core team.

I only could dream the inXile could snatch him, Tim Cain and more of those guys to work on Wasteland 2, in addition to those that are already here like Jason.
But im sure they have very good art team anyway.

As far as the final look of the Wasteland i expect nothing less than Temple of elemental evil quality.
thats what i meant when i mentioned cel shading not cartoony look and weird body proportions.
I think thats reachable with modern tech and if they need to use pre-rendered backgrounds then they will.
Im sure they know best as far as thats concerned.


As far as the 80s style... i hope they will keep more to general neuromancer style then some horrible stuff that was in popular culture of the era.
And mixed with some 90s more grittier outlook on everything.

[kurosawa]

btw. i read once that many guys that are responsible for the graphics of d3 are from the same team that made "the temple of elemental evil"

edit: one person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Boyarsky

Dude, SER Leonard Boyarsky was not only one of the leads on TOEE, but Arcanum and all the rest of Troika games. And before that he was the art director on original Fallout and the art style, in every aspect, of Fallout is his work.
He created it. Of course with the rest of the core team.

I only could dream the inXile could snatch him, Tim Cain and more of those guys to work on Wasteland 2, in addition to those that are already here like Jason.
But im sure they have very good art team anyway.

As far as the final look of the Wasteland i expect nothing less than Temple of elemental evil quality.
thats what i meant when i mentioned cel shading not cartoony look and weird body proportions.
I think thats reachable with modern tech and if they need to use pre-rendered backgrounds then they will.
Im sure they know best as far as thats concerned.


As far as the 80s style... i hope they will keep more to general neuromancer style then some horrible stuff that was in popular culture of the era.
And mixed with some 90s more grittier outlook on everything.

... i know that about troika games. very bad they had to close the doors. neuromancer and steampunk, yes ... like that very much too, but why not mix that with a bit 80´s popculture?

edit: didnt know that Jason Anderson is in the team. good news. thanks.