POLL: Cussing?

[Psilos]

I think there should always be some cussing, but imaginative one, just throwing a F* every other sentence is pretty lame, also having a few really vulgar character can be pretty hilarious if done right such as the Gunnery Sergeant Hartman In Full Metal Jacket http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIj9gGJf4g&feature=related

I think the cussing in the Witcher 1 & 2 was very well done, but I'd be happy with it done like in Fallout 1 & 2

[Scab]

However much the writers feel is appropriate for what they're going for, same as with everything else.

[Hiver]

I think there should always be some cussing, but imaginative one, just throwing a F* every other sentence is pretty lame, also having a few really vulgar character can be pretty hilarious if done right such as the Gunnery Sergeant Hartman In Full Metal Jacket http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIj9gGJf4g&feature=related

I think the cussing in the Witcher 1 & 2 was very well done, but I'd be happy with it done like in Fallout 1 & 2

Yes! Please one big Easter egg for gunnery sergeant Hartman! that would be so great! call him heartlove or something like that!

[randir14]

As long as it's not as ridiculous as the cussing in Bulletstorm, I'm fine with it.

[Drool]

Yeah, but Bulletstorm was supposed to be ridiculous. Likewise, Myron in Fallout 2 was supposed to be ridiculous: he was as pimply nerd trying really hard to be a badass.

None of the options in the poll really work for me. I think it should be left to the writers. If it makes sense for the character to use foul language, then by all means, use it. I don't really see Leather Jerks as the type to moderate their speech, you know? But on the other hand, I don't see Charmine as the type to swear up a storm. Christine? Yeah, I could totally see her swearing up a storm (unless I wanted her to).

Also, if you're going to use swearing, use real words. Fake swear words only work when you've taken the time to build an entire dialect from the ground up and have infused it throughout the dialogue. So unless you're going to create your own version of Nadsat, don't fucking bother. Using cutesy fake swear words just feels like you're trying to skirt under a censor's gaze. Because that's usually why it's done.

[udm]

What are your thoughts are on having cussing in the game? A strongly mature tone.

Just keep it realistic and don't arbitrarily add f-bombs in order to seem mature. It's easily recognized as a transparent attempt at covering up for poor writing talent (see ex. Fallout 3).

Agreed.

[Kide]

Yep, it is up to the writer's, if they think that the charachter is someone who does use curse words a lot, then they should. There should be no limitation on the fact that there can't be those in use, but there is no need to try and fit them everywhere.

[Lordus]

Dont forget that many players are not native english speakers, so it could be hard to understand. So creating whole new "post apo language modification of english" could be contraproductive. But on other way, i like if post apo dictonary uses new words or gives aditional sense to existing one, based on post apo human experience.

[Fippy_Darkpaw]

I think there should always be some cussing, but imaginative one, just throwing a F* every other sentence is pretty lame, also having a few really vulgar character can be pretty hilarious if done right such as the Gunnery Sergeant Hartman In Full Metal Jacket http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIj9gGJf4g&feature=related

I think the cussing in the Witcher 1 & 2 was very well done, but I'd be happy with it done like in Fallout 1 & 2

R. Lee Ermey, the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket, voice-acted General Barnaky in Fallout:Tactics.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0080047/

[krellen]

R. Lee Ermey, the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket, voice-acted General Barnaky in Fallout:Tactics.

Right! That's why he sounds familiar!

[ffordesoon]

This pretty much nails my problem with excessive "future slang":

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/17/satur ... bad-blood/

[mercy]

Swearing should be performed using creative words! Avoid plain and primitive cussing words like "f** you!" as much as you can please, they are stupid and we can read/hear them everywhere. A**hole is more okay. Be colorful with word usage.
"Wastardly Wabbits!" was worth a hundred times more than "f***in rabbits!"

[War]

The amount of cussing/swearing to add depends on the skill of the writer(s), i.e., how 'creatively' they can use it. As some have already mentioned, 'Full Metal Jacket' & 'The Big Lebowski' had good writers (and also actors who could deliver the dialog properly). It's cringeworthy if you've got some hacks shovelling it in there to give their audience a 'mature' and 'gritty' experience.

For example:

*guy walks into a bar*
Guy: "Good morning, you sexy motherfuckers! Get me a fucking beer!"

That's just embarrassing, no?

[War]

Or maybe it'd be amusing if everyone in the bar instantly turned around and blew him away with shotguns. Whatever.

[ffordesoon]

How much cussing/swearing to add depends on the skill of the writer(s), i.e., how 'creatively' they can use it. As some have already mentioned, 'Full Metal Jacket' & 'The Big Lebowski' had good writers (and also actors who could deliver the dialog properly). It's cringeworthy if you've got some hacks shovelling it in there to give their audience a 'mature' and 'gritty' experience.

For example:

*guy walks into a bar*
Guy: "Good morning, you sexy motherfuckers! Get me a fucking beer!"

That's just embarrassing, no?

No.

It's hilarious.

[War]

Ok, bad example — someone write some hackneyed dialog with gratuitous cussing in it, immediately!

[harborpirate]

This pretty much nails my problem with excessive "future slang":

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/17/satur ... bad-blood/

Not a good example, because that is just extremely poor writing.

I can understand being worried about whether too many "future slang" words would make dialogue hard to follow; but if that example is what you're worried about, then you don't have much confidence in the writers.

[ffordesoon]

@harborpirate:

I didn't say I had a problem with excessive future slang in Wasteland 2. I said I have a problem with excessive future slang period. I find it annoying and distracting. That was a comically extreme example, to be sure, but there's very little future slang I like. It can enhance a setting when done well, I think, but I can't think of many times it's been done at all well, and even the setting-enhancing stuff can get grating after a while. It's like dialect: when used sparingly, consistently, and with an ear toward making sure it sounds like slang that could concievably evolve from the words we use now (or used then, assuming Wasteland 2 is so scrupulously faithful to Wasteland continuity that its timeline diverges from our world at the same point), it works. But I think it's something to be avoided in general.

I have faith in the writers of W2. I have enough, in fact, that I firmly believe they won't use it. But what I'm saying is that future (or past) slang is annoying to me as a concept. I understand that it's the future, and is thus different from now. But the vast expanse of bombed-out nothingness before me should be enough of a clue that Things Have Changed. I don't need to be unable to understand what the hell anyone's saying to grasp that.

People have used future slang very well in the past. It's just not my thing. it feels comic-book-y. Normally, that'd be no bad thing to me, as I believe comics are the greatest art form ever invented by humans, but that's the closest I can come to explaining my distaste for it. Well, maybe "Claremontean" would be better, but that presumes you know who Chris Claremont is and that you already agree with me that his approach to future slang (and, indeed, any dialect besides Northern American English) is annoying, which is an unfair expectation to possess. So "comic-book-y" is the closest I can get.

[harborpirate]

I can understand that it is hard for many people to understand forms of language and societal norms that they aren't used to. We play games where ancient Romans or Greeks don't keep slaves, for instance. We watch movies where Elizabethan playwrights speak modern British English. We see everything through the lens of our own society and it can be hard to break out of that mindset (though I find it fun to do so).

A better example of your concern might be something like William Gibson's Neuromancer. I found it a serious slog to get through that book due to the impenetrable form of language that he uses to enhance the setting, so I can understand your concern. I'm not expecting anything close to that, but rather a few interesting "future swears" and colloquialisms that characters sometimes would use.

Maybe we'll be able to mod this in. It would be nice if dialogue was stored in configuration files so that I could sprinkle in my own flavor easily if I so wish.

It would be more fun for me if the developers of the game came up with some fun future slang, but if they have to leave it out for the mass market and it isn't too painful to mod it in myself then I guess I'll do that just to enhance my own experience.

[SockMan]

The key is to use cussing to reinforce a character's behavior or a setting's mood. Don't just include cussing "just because". Of course, in a post-apocalyptic future I would fully expect language to evolve - as well as societal norms - which could lead to some interesting dialog.

Basically the decision to use cussing, and when and where to use it, should be left to the writer (which I think ought to be a poll option). I can't really vote for a set amount except to say that cussing shouldn't be excluded completely - which would be silly for what's probably going to be an M-rated game.