Over the top with mature themes.

[Quarex]

"Mature" doesn't only means sex, death and money. I agree that these things should be present in the game, but not too over the top. It's not like in times of misfortune all people turn into vicious animals that howl for blood in the moon light. Some of the most humane actions can also be witnessed in these kind of environments - a person sharing his last piece of bread with a complete stranger etc. In other words, the whole spectrum of human nature should be presented in a realistic and mature way.

"Over the top" would be bad. I want a game that's mature in the real sense: something intended for adults, not teenage boys. Fallout 1 or Planescape: Torment were great examples, and the latter wasn't even rated M. "Over the top" adult themes aren't mature--on the contrary, they're incredibly immature. Look at contemporary garbage like House of the Dead: Overkill, Bulletstorm, Mafia II and the like. They lack any kind of sophistication.

Give me a game that an adult can play without wincing.

You two have basically outlined what I mean when I say I want a "mature" game.

I just wanted to add that I agree with this. Not shying away from sex, violence, and drugs hardly means WOOOOO RAPE SIMULATOR 3000 WITH NON-STOP BEHEADED CHILDREN like some people in other threads honestly seem to be suggesting.

[fax_]

Is the concept of maturity on this thread limited to sex, death and darkness?

There is plenty of that in modern days today anyway. What we need are interesting, if slightly unlikely scenario concepts (like the town of mutant children) which considers seriously what the consequences of such a setup might be (less than how such a scenario might arise), in order to provide an opportunity for role players to respond to a situation they would never have to face in a 'realistic gritty game', or indeed beyond most people's imagination. Besides which, black humour exists in every serious situation that exists, should you choose to observe it - and people should be perfectly capable of responding to a scenario as seriously as they like, and as humorously as they like. The choices you make define how serious the mood is. There is something both off-kilter absurd and frightening in a town of mutant children who laugh as you slip off rocks, or the three legged prostitute. If the choices are well written, you can interpret it any way you wish.

So don't restrict the world to common imaginings of the apocalypse. I disagree with those posters who want it all toned down. I say splurge the creative juices with all absurdities, with the only proviso that over-the-top ideas are treated seriously (in terms of character reactions, player choices etc.) The original wasteland was about opening minds (in the same way as absurd philosophical thought experiments of perfect clones and evil, invisible sense-distorting Gods are : scenarios that ask the most challenging questions of human perception and existence). Making people 'feel emotional and connected' isn't enough - they should be (skillfully) nudged out of their normal zones of comfort and imagination.

[IDDQD]

Player reputations...
If you have a habbit of killing and raping whole towns and leaving just a few alive to tell the tale, that information should spread like wildfire.

when the game comes out, challenge accepted.

[Pneumonica]

One of the great things about the original Fallout (and Wasteland) was the opportunity to be "lightly amoral" (a drug trafficker, a prostitute or pimp, etc.). In Wasteland, you play a member of a self-appointed organization accountable to noone whose purpose is to maintain law and order as law dogs in the Wild West. The possibility for moral issues are many. Issues could come up like:

What do you consider a crime? Dude A shot dude B's dog to "send him a message" - has he committed a crime? What if it was his horse/car? How do you punish crimes? Out in the wasteland, criminals get away with their crimes a lot. The punishments are intended to deter them. Does that mean killing the criminals?
The oldest resident of Highpool is 17, not counting the crazy old hermit with the Red Ryder rifle. They've been running the town (poorly) for a while. Their "city council" ranges in age from 13 to 16. Do they have a right to self-govern? Does it matter that some of those fifteen year olds are getting married and having kids?
Robots. Everybody has a problem with them. What happens if a 'bot claims to not want to go slicey-slicey on the organic menace? Do you give it a chance? Does it really matter if you don't?

In terms of the moral choices, the Witcher game had a great way of handling them. The outcomes of your moral decisions wouldn't become clear until later in the game, so that you couldn't "save spam" your way to a preferred result (if there is a preferrable result). That way, you actually have to face the consequences of your actions.

[infestor]

hasnt fargo already said in one of his tweets or interviews that the game will be "edgier"? i think he wholeheartedly agrees to mature content and gratuitous violence.

[Pharo]

I think the M rating at best is a given. Wasteland and Fallout were pretty over the top for their respective eras. On the subject of maturity, I don't feel the game should resort to lowbrow aka duke nukem, ever. The source material is firmly rooted in satire, so I vote highbrow satire with gratuitous sex/violence/drugs.

Speaking of drugs, I really dislike fictitious future drugs as society's ill (I'm looking at you Fallout 2). What would really be available in the post apocalyptic wasteland? Probably meth, I would think an enterprising sort could still make it from the ruins of society easily enough. Pharmaceuticals would probably be rare and valued. I don't see much else surviving.

[doady]

Going "over the top with mature themes" doesn't seem very mature to me...

[reedixxx]

Boobs implant for female character = +1 to charisma.

They should do it.

[fax_]

Going "over the top with mature themes" doesn't seem very mature to me...

Boobs implant for female character = +1 to charisma.

It's not a concept or situation itself that makes something mature - it's the light in which you see it, the attitude you (or, in the context of a game, NPC's and the game-world) take to it. It's one thing to have purchasable 'third-'breast implants just to have all the characters in the game swoon over you and make silly comments. Another thing to have purchasable 'third-'breast implants as a possible quest device for gaining access to a bar of mutant fetishists, where the actual third breast is not crudely made fun of, but passively acknowledged and treated seriously.

[T-Dizzle]

We mustn't forget that a humorous atmosphere is just as important as a mature atmosphere.

If the game were 100% serious and mature then it would be rather depressing and/ or boring.
We and the devs still need some indulgences, and times to just sit back and laugh at a hilariously absurd situation.

I will second that!

[homeslice82]

hasnt fargo already said in one of his tweets or interviews that the game will be "edgier"? i think he wholeheartedly agrees to mature content and gratuitous violence.

gra·tu·i·tous

Adjective:

1.Uncalled for; lacking good reason; unwarranted.

I think that's pretty much the polar opposite of what most people in here are looking for.

[infestor]

We mustn't forget that a humorous atmosphere is just as important as a mature atmosphere.

If the game were 100% serious and mature then it would be rather depressing and/ or boring.
We and the devs still need some indulgences, and times to just sit back and laugh at a hilariously absurd situation.

I will second that!

yeah, but there is humor and there is humor i'm for the dark humor (black comedy). all in all, fargo and his posse knows what they're doing. i wouldn't worry too much there.

[Vyse]

You think violence is a must? I'm not sure if I agree to this... Sure it is a postapocalyptic world and the game should have an appropriate amount of adult content, themes and whatnot, but to me this sounds a lot like "we need violence for the sake of having violence" and that is where it goes from adding to the mood to being cheap. So...

Violence, gore etc where it is appropriate: yes please.
Exploding heads in every battle "cause we can": PLEASE NO!

[void1984]

Please don't make cities childless because "no one would be able to kill a child that way".
I want Fallout like world where drugs, hookers and violence exist. They don't have to be present in every dialogue or quest, but create a believable lawless world.

[abyss]

Exploding heads in every battle: PLEASE NO!

PLEASE YES! Monty Pythonesque violence and dark humor defined the original games. Wasteland and Fallout 1/2 were shamelessly inappropriate.

I want a bloody mess perk that will make people die in the messiest ways possible. Severed arms from papercuts.

[Roman0]

I want a bloody mess perk that will make people die in the messiest ways possible. Severed arms from papercuts.

Hell yes, I never started the game without it. I just couldn't resist blowing a hole in someone's torso by just punching him with a naked fist

But yeah, I think they should keep it believable, without sex and violence shoved in your face just for the fun of it.

[BrotherMagneto]

Monty Python exploding heads are awesome. Even Mad Max-style over the top 80s post-apocalyptic punkery is great.

I think most of us just don't want Hostel: The Videogame or Sociopath Simulator 2000.

Edit: more appropriate maybe?

Hostel-style violence? No thanks.
Evil Dead 2-style violence? Yes please!

[malakar]

The witcher (particularly the second one) really had a perfect amount of nudity, sex, gambling, drinking and other mature theme. These guys never got afraid or ashamed about all that "grown up stuff". Also they really handle it well. Doesn't seem stupid or silly and, really is touching.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the 12 years old crowd will stick with COD on xbox

[Zeful]

Juxtaposition. The good use of this element of design is important if the game want's to feel real. It doesn't matter what content it covers, drugs, rape, prostitution, murder. It doesn't matter, but it should have moments where the tone shifts and the player has to examine previous actions in a new light. It's really the essence of "maturity". There should be moments where the play confronts two different people doing either the same thing or very similar things, and the player should have two different emotional responses.

Should elements like drugs, prostitution, murder (killing is different from murder), and rape be in the game? When appropriate, yes. Prostitution was in Icewind Dale (Heart of Winter) after all.

[homeslice82]

Monty Python exploding heads are awesome. Even Mad Max-style over the top 80s post-apocalyptic punkery is great.

I think most of us just don't want Hostel: The Videogame or Sociopath Simulator 2000.

Edit: more appropriate maybe?

Hostel-style violence? No thanks.
Evil Dead 2-style violence? Yes please!

Agreed.