Space vs Depth

[snakeoil]

i came to the idea that it might be more interesting to have not a very big map but instead of it more layers of interaction within a smaller space. it could be very interesting to not travel so much like in classic fallout but to have everything close together. i know, i know.... right now people tend to want bigger and bigger maps, but think about a game like skyrim compressed to only 1 city of small dimension, not like liberty city, more like whiterun. its completely against what is so popular today and could establish a whole new experience. npcs would become more important and still there could be tons of things to do.

HA! what a cool new classic RPG it could be.

[TΛPETRVE]

That's the whole curse of open world games: People won't accept something to be "open world", unless it means "huge, empty plane with a few locations sprinkled all across". Example: Skyrim = large, untilled map = open world = cool, no matter how boring and lacklustre the world itself actually comes across. Dark Souls = no empty fields = no open world = teh suXX0rz, despite its elaborate and immensely detailed architecture. Granted, DS is more of a sprawling labyrinth in the vein of a Metroidvania title, but it's still an open world by definition.

[tuluse]

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines did something similar to this, and it is a a cool idea.

However, I don't think it fits Wasteland.

[TΛPETRVE]

The great advantage of a top-down game is that empty spaces won't be perceived as much as boring (unless you have half a map that contains nothing but barren desert), because you don't have to traverse them from a character's point of view and usually your travel velocity is proportionally higher to that of a first-person game, too.

[jonny_p66]

compressing the whole of skyrim into whiterun seems a bit extreme i'm not quite sure how you'd do that there's a but load of content in skyrim if u go looking

but having said that i quite like this idea, less locations with more to do in each one, after all learning a new location layout isnt the most fun thing to do and if there are less areas you've got more chance of being able to know them all and travel between them all doing quests and so on

it might be a bit like Fable, where there are a given number of towns, dungeon areas and connecting wilderness areas and you can chop and change between any area quite easily and know them all at once

but wasteland would have to be more open than fable's branching connecting areas and i would also hope for more to do in a given area but i dont know it might just be a few things to do in each area like basically a quest per each special building that isnt just a random shack or somehting on that level

btw will there be a full 3d open overworld at all in wasteland 2??? because fallout didnt have one it had a map and local areas right? and wasteland 1 had an over-world but it was just like a simple zoomed out zelda 1 kind of thing

is it right wasteland 2 is having an over-world and local areas with different levels of zoom and detail with less detail and further out zoom in the over-world?

[Zeronet]

I'd be very surprised if Wasteland 2 didn't incorporate some sort of overland map. People accept them, whether in the style Fallout 1/2/Tactics or something more like Fantasy 7 and 8.

A 3d map overland could be pretty interesting.

[Sub-Human]

I'd rather want a fairly big map. It's the Wasteland. Most likely pretty desolate.

However, I would certainly like quite a lot of depth in locations. Towns shouldn't be bland and merchants shouldn't be here and there, sprinkled all over. There should be a whole trading hub, with lots of NPCs, thieves, traders, a police station shouldn't be completely vacated either...

[TΛPETRVE]

Huge maps are pretty easy to implement in a tile-based game like Wasteland. Even Fallout did it pretty much like old JRPGs, with an overworld map that was intersected into squares, some of which had actual locations underneath, while the rest led to randomly generated terrain with equally random encounters.

[Zombra]

Yet another really good idea for some game that isn't Wasteland 2.

[snakeoil]

Yet another really good idea for some game that isn't Wasteland 2.

a game that isn't wasteland 2? So you know what wasteland 2 will be? I think when, if not now can these so very qualified people at inxile try something new without the fear to fail? I think you should be open minded in what you expect and what a sequel should look like. We never got games like resident evil 4 if people always want developers producing the same stuff over and over again. With a huge fan founded project like this, experienced game developers like inxile is given the real freedom to give us something that is not limited by conventional design. Most of us have given them our money because we want a spiritual successor to wasteland 2 not a copy. I think people say through funding that they want their fun in gaming back, something that the mainstream doesin't deliver. Basically all i say is think outside of the box now that you are free to make a new wasteland. really, with a change in perspective, which is already decided, there is enough room for some new approach and look at wasteland. We as fans can only deliver ideas, and i am for some changesas long as the final game is fun. Iguess it won't be 100% retro anyway...

[Tagaziel]

What change in perspective? Wasteland 2 is going to be a classic isometric RPG, it's been stated during the Kickstarter campaign. The only difference from the original is a different angle and inclusion of fully 3D graphics.

As for the topic, the Fallout-like node-based map system is the best solution for a game that aims to be a classic. The worldmap is sorely missing from the present day games and they are much worse for that. New Vegas suffers from being heavily compressed, if it had a world map, the world would feel much more fluent (not that it's bad, it just feels cramped, not as much as Fallout 3, but still). It's taken to an extreme in Skyrim, when an entire northern province that provided thousands of legionaries to help reconquer Cyrodil is about the size of a few neighbourhoods, far cry from what's portrayed in the books. If anything, Wasteland should not go down that path, focusing on providing a real sense of scale, and focusing on developing node locations.

Which is, well, effective, as classic RPGs proved.

[snakeoil]

i wouldnt mind a huge map either, lol. reminds me of taking a little walk in twilight 2000...

[Zombra]

Yet another really good idea for some game that isn't Wasteland 2.

a game that isn't wasteland 2? So you know what wasteland 2 will be? I think when, if not now can these so very qualified people at inxile try something new without the fear to fail?

When can they try something new? When they're doing a new game, where they haven't sworn up, down, and sideways that it will hearken back to the original. I am all for wild experimentation with design, but it would be absolutely inappropriate for this project. Remember that this is a pioneer project for Kickstarter. If inXile doesn't deliver what they promised, it will be a major black eye for fan funding right from the beginning. Not to mention it will give their particular studio a reputation for breaking trust. Nothing good can come of crazy departures in W2.

Now, their next game can be as insane and ambitious as they want, and I'll buy it ... assuming that they deliver what I paid for in W2.

[GodComplex]

As for the topic, the Fallout-like node-based map system is the best solution for a game that aims to be a classic. The worldmap is sorely missing from the present day games and they are much worse for that. New Vegas suffers from being heavily compressed, if it had a world map, the world would feel much more fluent (not that it's bad, it just feels cramped, not as much as Fallout 3, but still). It's taken to an extreme in Skyrim, when an entire northern province that provided thousands of legionaries to help reconquer Cyrodil is about the size of a few neighbourhoods, far cry from what's portrayed in the books. If anything, Wasteland should not go down that path, focusing on providing a real sense of scale, and focusing on developing node locations.

Which is, well, effective, as classic RPGs proved.

I was actually discussing how awesome the node system was in FO2 with a friend the other day and how someone should implement it for a redux of FO 1&2 using New Vegas as a base. If they'd been more willing to use the setup in various games they could have spent more time on tweaking good content rather than troubleshooting 'filler' areas complete with floating rocks. Just to get something as diverse as the expansions.

I wouldn't even object to a 3d world like Final Fantasy 7-9. As long as I get a vast world to explore and random encounters to satiate my bloodlust.