Let unrelated quests intermingle in unexpected ways.

[MinscAndBoo]

In any sequence...

Q.x = Quest #

Example, Q.1 'blow up the furnace at old farnaby's steelworks' results in a blocked passage for Q.2 'find lucia's inhaler' which results in Q.2A 'unblock' the passage.

If you did Q.2 lucia's quest first then:

1) Enemies inside Q.2 area that would otherwise be dead from Q.1's explosion are still alive.
2) Without Q.1's explosion, the main gate for lucias quest is open, but some sub-areas are still closed off.
3) There would be no need for Q.2A so replace it with another quest Q.4 (unknown).

By using one quest to affect one other or multiple quests pathways, the structure could be quite loose, allowing for an organic and unpredictable array of outcomes.

The means to unblock a blocked quest should be presented to the player at the time of their arrival.

Keep in mind what I propose does not necessarily block the pathway but altar it.

[Clicky Click]

@ Google Moderator "Let unrelated quests intermingle in unexpected ways. | More info in responses."

[Mordul]

While I appreciate the idea of interconnected quests which is not he same as a quest chain...It looks like a lot of work.
First crafting basic ideas of quests.
Then finding methods of connecting quests THAT DON'T REPEAT.
Next Fleshing out the details into memorable encounters.
I'm probably skipping a few steps but it looks like it could easily add a third more time to design.

[MinscAndBoo]

While I appreciate the idea of interconnected quests which is not he same as a quest chain...It looks like a lot of work.
First crafting basic ideas of quests.
Then finding methods of connecting quests THAT DON'T REPEAT.
Next Fleshing out the details into memorable encounters.
I'm probably skipping a few steps but it looks like it could easily add a third more time to design.

It only enhances what brian's team already do well. Deep involving quests. Why should they exist in a bubble?

I see your point about extra work. But I feel this idea will draw upon methods for designing organic branching systems for speech. Methods that have been refined from previous Interplay/inXile/Obsidian/Bioware/Black Isle games.

[ffordesoon]

I am pro-this.

[Harpo]

I really like this. I think it will make replays that much interesting. You'd not only be intrigued to try to do things differently, but also to do them in a different order. It will probably make the quest feel more interesting and legit as well.

[hiptanaka]

Things like this are great. Complex and interesting quests are what they should be spending a big portion of their time on, in my opinion. Also quests that span multiple locations in different ways.

EDIT: Put it on the idea moderator?

[Aldereth]

Like the idea. I just hope the team can manage to balance and debug everything. I can see there will be tracking of a lot of variables and knowing gamers, we can always find innovative way to wreck things

[hiptanaka]

Yeah. If every quest in the game was like this it'd be unmanagable, probably. But a few like it would be cool.

[MinscAndBoo]

Things like this are great. Complex and interesting quests are what they should be spending a big portion of their time on, in my opinion. Also quests that span multiple locations in different ways.

EDIT: Put it on the idea moderator?

Moderater link on the OP

cheers

[Game_Exile]

Yes, the quests should be interwoven, but why "loosely" and in "unexpected" ways? I like this idea for easter egg type stuff, but the effects of most of the quests work shouldn't be completely unpredictable or random. Quests should generally work in logical ways that impact the player's end game goals in ways other than XP gain (including the ways they impact other quests).

[MinscAndBoo]

Yes, the quests should be interwoven, but why "loosely" and in "unexpected" ways? I like this idea for easter egg type stuff, but the effects of most of the quests work shouldn't be completely unpredictable or random. Quests should generally work in logical ways that impact the player's end game goals in ways other than XP gain (including the ways they impact other quests).

I understand what you are saying.

But what I am trying to say is create quests that have a predictable goal and stay on a predictable path. but the actions you take to follow that path, affect other quests path's not their Goals.

This is not a literal idea for a quest, it is just an analogy of the bigger picture:

Train tracks. You follow your track from A to B. To get to B you have to pass over a train track turntable, which has 15 different tracks all passing through it. Now for you to get to B you don't care about anything else so manipulate the turntable so its pointing towards B, and on you go. Now in doing that 5 other quests are now blocked, because they can't get onto the turntable from their end.

The only relationship between the quests is the path you took. That's where you can add unpredictability.

[Noxvayl]

I love the idea, would make the game much more enjoyable.

I really liked the transition within rpg games from a linear story that was always the same to one that changes according to your decisions; to me this is a logical extension and improvement on that natural evolution of game story telling.

I hope InXile find the idea appealing as well.

[Game_Exile]

Train tracks. You follow your track from A to B. To get to B you have to pass over a train track turntable, which has 15 different tracks all passing through it. Now for you to get to B you don't care about anything else so manipulate the turntable so its pointing towards B, and on you go. Now in doing that 5 other quests are now blocked, because they can't get onto the turntable from their end.

The only relationship between the quests is the path you took. That's where you can add unpredictability.

Again, I don't see why it is important to add "unpredictability" here? When you make a decision to, say, block off a path, there should be central game mechanics in place telling you that this path is important for so and so reasons in the context of the game world, if you know what I mean. There can be other, surprise (quest-specific) reasons for blocking off or not blocking off the path, but an obvious and meaningless choice to block off a path in order to complete quest 1, shouldn't suddenly make you unable to take significant "paths" later in the game (or at least this shouldn't happen too often).

For most of the decisions you make, you should have some inkling of what the effects will be, or the whole game turns into absurdist comedy. I know you aren't trying to say that everything should be unpredictable. I'm just trying to argue that the words "unexpected" and "unpredictable" are misleading and confusing in this post.

[ffordesoon]

@Game_Exile:

Why not?

Too many games nowadays have all the fun polished out of them. I'd rather be confused than led by the hand.

[Mandemon]

Out of interest do you mean these unrelated quest should mingle like one in Mass Effect 3?

Basically, if you saved Conrad Verne in 2nd game, he would reveal he had doctorate in what-ever-it-was-but-I-cant-remember.

If you did fetch quest in 1st game that had not been brought up until this point, you get to advance it.

If did another fetch quest, which, once again had nothing to do this and had been basically forgotten, you get even further on it.

Finally, if bought one item in the 1st game, Eikoss Combine license, you get to finish the quest completely.

Note of these things, Verne, two fetch quest and bought the item, have any connection between them or even related to main plot, they are basically there just for 100% completion. Yet they still come suddenly into single moment.

You mean like that? Except all in single game.

[MinscAndBoo]

Train tracks. You follow your track from A to B. To get to B you have to pass over a train track turntable, which has 15 different tracks all passing through it. Now for you to get to B you don't care about anything else so manipulate the turntable so its pointing towards B, and on you go. Now in doing that 5 other quests are now blocked, because they can't get onto the turntable from their end.

The only relationship between the quests is the path you took. That's where you can add unpredictability.

Again, I don't see why it is important to add "unpredictability" here? When you make a decision to, say, block off a path, there should be central game mechanics in place telling you that this path is important for so and so reasons in the context of the game world, if you know what I mean.

Sorry about this, I can only demonstrate my idea's through examples.

Here goes:

Open up wasteland II, play for an hour, find lunchbox in rubble containing old maps detailing an underground resistance group that existed before the bombs dropped, and the location of their old weapons cache.

You mosey on down to the area with the weapons cache, but there seems to be a crap load of radiative goo around the entrance. Charlie notices a portable water pump and says he can get it working, 5 minutes later the goo is pumped down the sewer.

You walk in and grab the weapons cache, you walk off.

5 hours later on you discover a NPC who says he needs a particular type of valve for a machine he's building to get power out of underwater river currents.

Off you go to another point on the map, into a giant cistern.

Now your underground and have traveled some distance, at some point you come across an area that smells terrible, and there seems to be signs of movement down here.

Finally you see the origin of the smell, you come across a room laid out with lights and equipment, notebooks lying about, pencils sitting idly by. Then you notice that goop that got pumped down the sewer grate (unbeknownst to you) had traveled through miles of tunneling to end up covering what seems to be giant egg shells, only these egg shells have cracked open. Oh and there seems to be a few arms and legs scattered about floating around in lime green goo with the occasional red spot.

*EARTH SHATTERING ROAR* !@#$ity !@#$

After a lot of shouting and maiming, the monster falls through a shaft never to be seen again.

The quest item you need, is in this room, just near the entrance you came through. The quest item It is not blocked by anything.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you didn't suck all that goo away from the grate in the first quest, then the underground cistern area would have had a few npc's sitting around a nest adorned with giant eggs as big as a man. You can talk with the NPC's and maybe earn a quest to help them with their studies. Also, the giant eggs are blocking a hole which open's out to a few more rooms full of 'stuff'.

There can be other, surprise (quest-specific) reasons for blocking off or not blocking off the path, but an obvious and meaningless choice to block off a path in order to complete quest 1, shouldn't suddenly make you unable to take significant "paths" later in the game (or at least this shouldn't happen too often).

Agreed, but what I'm suggesting may not block a path but alter the 'hub' that many quests pass through. When you are faced with a block. The way to a solution should be presented to you almost immediately. Also, one hub may alter another hub.

Just for clarification when I mean hub, I don't mean an area with many doors (real not metaphorical) that for no reason at all become locked or become open. I mean a believable area that for reasons known (natural entropy, explosions, npc activity) and unknown (opening a shaft allows two species of rat to procreate, making a super-rat, that guards another entrance) shift towards one area being active and another being inactive.

For most of the decisions you make, you should have some inkling of what the effects will be, or the whole game turns into absurdist comedy. I know you aren't trying to say that everything should be unpredictable. I'm just trying to argue that the words "unexpected" and "unpredictable" are misleading and confusing in this post.

IMHO decisions have varying degrees of impact, that can last a millisecond to a millennia. Decisions that affect you personally are easy to predict (short term). Decisions that have have long term affects. That affect other people. Are subject to external forces, are much harder to predict.

So when I say unexpected, I'm talking about decisions that affect you personally. When I say unpredictable, I'm talking about decisions that are long term.

I hope some of the examples I have given make what I'm saying more clear, Please tell me if they aren't.

[Sub-Human]

Yes. I can't believe I've not commented on this. Although, in my opinion, there should still be a sort of recognizable connection... If you did something, it'd be a real pain to find out you've screwed up a whole other quest line 50 hours of gameplay ago.

There should be hints that what you're about to do might come haunt you later on. The game should be challenging, sure, but not unfair.

[Color Blotch]

There should be hints that what you're about to do might come haunt you later on. The game should be challenging, sure, but not unfair.

I believe this is a somewhat wrong mindset to approach a cRPG. As gamers we tend to perceive all negative events in game as "loss" and that we must "win" against the game in order to prevent them. But it shouldn't be taken like that. This isn't a race. The purpose of the game is not to get high score and you don't get "game over" screen because of your bad judgment. On the contrary, getting an unexpected result can be the best way to tell a story and immerse player in the new and unknown world. Failures are just as important to shape a unique story of your adventure as successes. Making sure that player can always avoid all failures is equivalent to making sure his adventure can be as bland and lifeless as possible (and there are already so many games doing a great job at that).

[Sub-Human]

I believe this is a somewhat wrong mindset to approach a cRPG. As gamers we tend to perceive all negative events in game as "loss" and that we must "win" against the game in order to prevent them. But it shouldn't be taken like that. This isn't a race. The purpose of the game is not to get high score and you don't get "game over" screen because of your bad judgment. On the contrary, getting an unexpected result can be the best way to tell a story and immerse player in the new and unknown world. Failures are just as important to shape a unique story of your adventure as successes. Making sure that player can always avoid all failures is equivalent to making sure his adventure can be as bland and lifeless as possible (and there are already so many games doing a great job at that).

I probably worded it incorrectly. I'm not against a few unexpected results with certain quests. However, completely spoiling the story is something I don't want. Don't make this on an extreme level.

[MinscAndBoo]

OP EDIT
-By using one quest result to affect other or multiple quest pathways, the structure could be quite loose, allowing for an organic and unpredictable array of outcomes.

-The means to unblock a blocked quest should be presented to the player at the time of their arrival.

-Keep in mind what I propose does not necessarily block the pathway but altar it.