Being able to be your own faction

[ToasterRepairman]

I am sick of roleplaying games where you help X, Y, or Z faction take over the world, get the really great ending or survive.

For example Fallout New Vegas. You cant really take over for yourself. You help someone else every time.

I dont want to be some NPC's Lieutenant sheparding them down the path to victory. I want there to be an option where I can just fight for me the player. Not the rangers, not the bandits, not the cultists, not the time travelers or whom ever.

[Mandemon]

Uuuh what? Yes, yes you can take over yourself. It's called "Independent" or "Yes Man" route. Plus it's been confirmed are are going to be Desert Rangers.

[ToasterRepairman]

No, you are basically working for the robot who well spoiler spoiler spoiler.

And yes, you can be a ranger but you could LEAD the rangers. You could be something then a glorified mail person doing this quest and that quest for the head ranger who takes all the glory for your victories and your errands.

You dont have to have a NPC give out main quests, you could get them from a computer or a notice board that defines strategies needed to get what you need to do done.

Thus making you the most important person in the game. Not a peon working for others.

[Shady314]

No, you are basically working for the robot who well spoiler spoiler spoiler.

The game can't read your mind yet. There has to be some method for receiving player input and making them aware of options. The robot was a good way to do it as you are really just taking over a particular person's plan when you eliminate said person...

And yes, you can be a ranger but you could LEAD the rangers. You could be something then a glorified mail person doing this quest and that quest for the head ranger who takes all the glory for your victories and your errands.

Well we do seem to be mostly on our own out in Cali but we just don't know yet.

You dont have to have a NPC give out main quests, you could get them from a computer or a notice board that defines strategies needed to get what you need to do done.

This is the same as the robot. Replace robot with computer or notice board.

Thus making you the most important person in the game. Not a peon working for others.

I don't know how a CRPG could truly make you feel this way.

Even you yourself could only think up replacing the robot of New Vegas with... a computer (big difference?). Who is posting these notices or computer updates? How do they know what you need and where/when/how/why to use it. Why are we listening to them and not just thinking this stuff up ourself?! Because we're going to be limited by the programming of the game.

[Haykel]

In Wasteland you were in your own faction : the desert Rangers.

[Mandemon]

Robot was essentially your own computer that stored your notes. You found someone else plans and decided use them for yourself. You essentially told robot "How do I take over the New Vegas?" and it told you. You then head out to do necessary things to succeed.

It was not your boss. It was your adviser.

[suz]

The game can't read your mind yet. There has to be some method for receiving player input and making them aware of options. The robot was a good way to do it as you are really just taking over a particular person's plan when you eliminate said person...

You're right, it can't read your mind, but it really was doing the robot's chores.

You never really got to interact with the faction like it's head - you never had the opportunity to send chairmen to attack some other gang or tell them to bring you supplies and prostitutes into your room or such things, it was expected that YOU as a big boss of the gang, go and do all the legwork.

I just hope our new Ranger HQ would have some options to act like the master of it and not a slave to some computer/notebook/general etc

[Mandemon]

The game can't read your mind yet. There has to be some method for receiving player input and making them aware of options. The robot was a good way to do it as you are really just taking over a particular person's plan when you eliminate said person...

You're right, it can't read your mind, but it really was doing the robot's chores.

You never really got to interact with the faction like it's head - you never had the opportunity to send chairmen to attack some other gang or tell them to bring you supplies and prostitutes into your room or such things, it was expected that YOU as a big boss of the gang, go and do all the legwork.

I just hope our new Ranger HQ would have some options to act like the master of it and not a slave to some computer/notebook/general etc

You realize you never take control of the Chairmen? You take control of Mr. House network and Securitrons.

[Vonexar]

I would love to have some dynamics that allow you to overtake different factions and cities. I don't want to see city/faction management systems overshadow the core gameplay of running around as a small group of Wasteland survivors (Desert Rangers) killing off rabid radioactive vermin.

Having multiple paths to an ending allows for more play through options. This is a good thing and everything that adds playability is something the dev team needs to look at IMHO. You encounter a small band and can wipe them out or recruit them into the Rangers. Sometimes you just want that canteen of water and .45 clip they have while other times they can work the farmland around your Ranger HQ. These sort of actions should be optional but also need to prevent steamrolling through areas (main/large factions) by conquering or wiping out a faction instead of completing story line content there.

[Game_Exile]

I love this idea, if it is implemented in a way that in interesting and necessary. I would suggest having at least 1 other faction working against you on broad and estimable lines like universal economic/political/espionage game systems. These can and should, of course, be influenced by unique and "plot" specific factors like VIPs, freak events, etc. This way, you will need to use your faction's resources, you'll have to handle many things "personally", and you will have a struggle on your hands all game long.

[ToasterRepairman]

No, you are basically working for the robot who well spoiler spoiler spoiler.

The game can't read your mind yet. There has to be some method for receiving player input and making them aware of options. The robot was a good way to do it as you are really just taking over a particular person's plan when you eliminate said person...

And yes, you can be a ranger but you could LEAD the rangers. You could be something then a glorified mail person doing this quest and that quest for the head ranger who takes all the glory for your victories and your errands.

Well we do seem to be mostly on our own out in Cali but we just don't know yet.

You dont have to have a NPC give out main quests, you could get them from a computer or a notice board that defines strategies needed to get what you need to do done.

This is the same as the robot. Replace robot with computer or notice board.

Thus making you the most important person in the game. Not a peon working for others.

I don't know how a CRPG could truly make you feel this way.

Even you yourself could only think up replacing the robot of New Vegas with... a computer (big difference?). Who is posting these notices or computer updates? How do they know what you need and where/when/how/why to use it. Why are we listening to them and not just thinking this stuff up ourself?! Because we're going to be limited by the programming of the game.

Does your computer have a personality?

Does it think, feel?

Yes, Man, had a personality. He TOLD you what to do and he also SPOILER

at the end basically said he was going to take over with his new update

A computer has nothing but information. You come in, imput data, the computer analysis it and spits out suggestions, it does not have a personality, it does not have artificial intelligence. It wont take over, if it tries you unplug it. It does not control all of your army unlike yes man who directly controlled all of the other robots.

[Mandemon]

Does your computer have a personality?

Does it think, feel?

Yes, Man, had a personality. He TOLD you what to do and he also SPOILER

at the end basically said he was going to take over with his new update

A computer has nothing but information. You come in, imput data, the computer analysis it and spits out suggestions, it does not have a personality, it does not have artificial intelligence. It wont take over, if it tries you unplug it. It does not control all of your army unlike yes man who directly controlled all of the other robots.

Yes Mans only personality was that he was programmed to helo anyone. His last update is that he will only obey you. He does never take control.

[Drool]

at the end basically said he was going to take over with his new update

What excellent timing:

Q:In the Independent ending, Yes Man talks about finding some code in Mr Houses database that will let him be more assertive. Is this just an artifact of a time when you were considering allowing post-ending gameplay?

A:No. John Gonzalez wrote those lines to assuage potential player fears that other people would manipulate Yes Man if/when the Courier wasn't around. Yes Man is programmed to do anything anyone tells him to do. This is convenient for the Courier but a liability if Yes Man is intended to help coordinate things in New Vegas after the Second Battle of Hoover Dam.

[Mandemon]

Nice find Drool.

I'm kinda sad game doesn't allow yo to continue after Hoover Damn tough... that would have been neat, to see the result of your actions.

ToasterRepairman, do you even understand the plot of Independent Route? You keep telling how Yes Man is using you for his own goals, yet you never post any proof of this. You keep saying that note board would be better, yet someone has to put those notes there. It wile still be fetch quest, taking a look at the note board and doing whatever the arbitrary writer tells you.

Who cares where the orders come from, robot, computer, note board, it's still the same result. In FNV Yes Man was perfect way to introduce independent route. By having player encounter Yes Man and use Yes Mans flawed programming to find out that there is a way to take control of New Vegas. Player could then consult Yes Man on details how to do this and carried out those plans. Or you could forget it, leave Yes Man behind and work for one of three other factions.

[Drool]

I'm kinda sad game doesn't allow yo to continue after Hoover Damn tough... that would have been neat, to see the result of your actions.

Especially sad since they were going to continue, but ran out of time. Sawyer decided that since they couldn't do it right (showing the impact of your choices across the Mohave), it would be better to not do it at all.

[Mandemon]

Well, that is logical. If you can't make it right, rahter drop it than implement half-assed and buggy version.

[Gigabiggle]

I think I get what TRM was trying to say. He was asking for some type of alternate route through the game where you don't have to report to Ranger Center, he's asking for the ability to go totally rogue. Walk into a town, kill all the men, rape the women, then put a flag up that says "Hey fuck you, come get some bitches. We be pirates yarrrr.".

Maybe in his game he wouldnt be as violent, but I would if I was going rogue. I might be totally out to lunch on this as well. I think that the general idea of being able to represent yourself in the wasteland as your own party is relevant, But at the same time, if a ranger dies you wouldn't be able to replace them because Ranger Center won't send you rogue replacements.

Really, why should Ranger Center be calling the shots, you're the team that gets sent out to establish some ties in the wasteland. Maybe the people in the Wasteland don't want Ranger Center's help, but maybe they'll accept it from friendly strangers, or be forced to accept much crueler fates from danger strangers.

[paultakeda]

I think I get what TRM was trying to say. He was asking for some type of alternate route through the game where you don't have to report to Ranger Center, he's asking for the ability to go totally rogue. Walk into a town, kill all the men, rape the women, then put a flag up that says "Hey fuck you, come get some bitches. We be pirates yarrrr.".

You pretty much get to do whatever you want, you know. The very first town you encounter, Highpool, sets that tone. I would have thought ToasterRepairMan would have known that, seeing as his handle is ToasterRepairMan.

This idea that Ranger Center is a beacon of good is psychologically interesting. I always look at it as a polity that wants to expand its sphere of control through any means necessary and will, in fact, promote you regardless of how you get the job done... as long as you get the job done.

Wanting more independence than that is a different story. It can be done, but as WL2's main plot is already established we'll have to wait and see if anything like that is in there.

[Lucius]

Wanting more independence than that is a different story. It can be done, but as WL2's main plot is already established we'll have to wait and see if anything like that is in there.

How can there be more independence than doing what you want, when you want?

To the OP, the original game was very open ended. Until inXile says otherwise, I'd assume the sequel will be just as open ended. You never had to report to anyone and instructions never came down the pipe for you to follow. I'd like to think that same amount of freedom will apply in the sequel.

For all intents and purposes, you, the player, ARE the Desert Rangers. Anything you do FOR the Desert Rangers you are effectively doing for yourself. If we learn that the Desert Rangers is an organization that barks orders at you or even gives quests (other than the obvious "go to California and find out whats going on and set up a base while there") I for one will be very disappointed in the game.

The Desert Rangers should not be a fleshed out organization. That should be left up to the player and your deeds. It shouldn't be a faction that hands out quests left and right like the NCR. In my perfect Wasteland 2 there would be very little communication between my party and Ranger Center proper, beyond promotions. I want to feel like my party represents the Rangers as I view them.

I think we need to stop looking at ourselves in game as this character or that but as an organization, Desert Rangers. We will hopefully be roleplaying this group, with less emphasis on the individuals.

[Mandemon]

To me, that sounds something that would work better without players being Rangers. If players are rangers and rangers are (at least) paramilitary organization, there will be a chain of command. They will issue orders. No military order, para or not, just sends people to one place and then gives them free reign to do whatever they want, with no restrictions.

They would question your actions, demand reports, send assistance, send teams to investigate disappearance of previous teams, etc. We are send to scout and set up a base. That is a little bit more than "Go here and do what the fuck you want! Oh, and if you got time build a base."