30 year veteran's ideas

[Full Auto]

Been playing video/computer/arcade games since early 80's (Atari 2600, C64, C128, Amiga, finally to PC and then even XBOX/XBOX360). Wasteland is one of my 'holy trinity' (Bard's Tale, Wasteland and Ultima 4). My ideas:

-Turn based tactical combat similar to X-Com/JA2 a must (tactical map, friendly fire, line of sight, fog of war, cover, thrown weapons, indirect fire, scouting, stealth and interrupts). Add quick combat option for trivial combats (Wizard's Crown had a quick combat option and you better be a lot better then opponents if you use it)
-no energy weapons/powered armor; end game gets boring with same gear. A nice variety of firearms and combat armor type body armor at end game would be fine. Maybe end game enemies have some powerful sci fi stuff (that you have to use tactics to overcome) but you cannot loot/use it.
-varied weapon types (pistol, SMG, shotgun, grenades, hunting rifles, assault rifles, carbines, sniper rifles, anti-tank weapons, etc...) with a few different weapons in each type. Pistols should end up as back-up weapons.
-varied armor types and armor for different parts of the body. A scout may have light body/head armor and no armor on their legs. A close range assault character would have heavy body armor head to toe.
-customizable gear (scopes, suppressors, ceramic plates, laser sights, bayonet, etc...) Skills should influence customization choices
-gear should show on characters - someone in combat armor would look different then someone wearing a leather jacket
-skills should influence conversations - for example if someone has a really high medical skill they could tell if an NPC is lying about an injury/disease
-ability to customize characters for particular roles (scout, sniper, heavy weapons, engineer, combat medic, rifleman, etc...) Have perks available once a character gets to a certain level in a skill. So not only are characters differentiated based on skills/skill levels but there are different skill level based perks they can take.
-allow looting of all enemy gear (that survives combat) but inventory is limited to what characters can carry (weight and size limited). All gear left would be radioed in to get picked up and sent back to base. After a few days game time the gear would be available at Range Base
-Base Building - having the base as almost a develop-able PC would be great. Maybe even have base subject to attacks and you have to defend it at certain points. Choices of dealing with quests/NPCs should affect base development.
-cumulative and cooperative skill checks (if two characters have demolitions skill the chance to disarm a bomb is slightly higher)
-at least one NPC slot reserved for a 'pet'. You know - like a giant tamed mutated rat or a super-intelligent rad scorpion. Friends don't always walk on 2 legs.
-somewhat realistic character creation and development. No 1 intelligence, 1 charisma, 10 str, 10 agil guys. Maybe have recruit archetypes (survivalist, soldier, medic, scout, engineer, etc...) to select at start. I'm not sure I want classes but I don't like min/maxing. Maybe separate skills by type (weapons, athletics, fine motor, technical, etc...) and as characters level up they get points to spend in each type.

[Woolfe]

As another 30 year veteran... Been playing C64 since I was 4.

-Turn based tactical combat similar to X-Com/JA2 a must (tactical map, friendly fire, line of sight, fog of war, cover, thrown weapons, indirect fire, scouting, stealth and interrupts). Add quick combat option for trivial combats (Wizard's Crown had a quick combat option and you better be a lot better then opponents if you use it)

Agreed

-no energy weapons/powered armor; end game gets boring with same gear. A nice variety of firearms and combat armor type body armor at end game would be fine. Maybe end game enemies have some powerful sci fi stuff (that you have to use tactics to overcome) but you cannot loot/use it.

Disagree. Have them, I would like to see more variety.

-varied weapon types (pistol, SMG, shotgun, grenades, hunting rifles, assault rifles, carbines, sniper rifles, anti-tank weapons, etc...) with a few different weapons in each type. Pistols should end up as back-up weapons.
-varied armor types and armor for different parts of the body. A scout may have light body/head armor and no armor on their legs. A close range assault character would have heavy body armor head to toe.

Agreed, altho it may be getting overly complex with the armour. That doesn't bother me that much tho.

-customizable gear (scopes, suppressors, ceramic plates, laser sights, bayonet, etc...) Skills should influence customization choices
-gear should show on characters - someone in combat armor would look different then someone wearing a leather jacket

Agreed

-skills should influence conversations - for example if someone has a really high medical skill they could tell if an NPC is lying about an injury/disease

Agreed

-ability to customize characters for particular roles (scout, sniper, heavy weapons, engineer, combat medic, rifleman, etc...) Have perks available once a character gets to a certain level in a skill. So not only are characters differentiated based on skills/skill levels but there are different skill level based perks they can take.

Agreed.... Might be caveats on it tho...

-allow looting of all enemy gear (that survives combat) but inventory is limited to what characters can carry (weight and size limited). All gear left would be radioed in to get picked up and sent back to base. After a few days game time the gear would be available at Range Base

Agreed.. But caveat of more stuff gets wrecked in combat. A vest that has just had taken 3 or 4 clips of Ak's should be broken to some degree.

-Base Building - having the base as almost a develop-able PC would be great. Maybe even have base subject to attacks and you have to defend it at certain points. Choices of dealing with quests/NPCs should affect base development.

Agreed

-cumulative and cooperative skill checks (if two characters have demolitions skill the chance to disarm a bomb is slightly higher)

I like this. Like they are collaborating, bouncing ideas off each other. May require caveats for NPC's.

-at least one NPC slot reserved for a 'pet'. You know - like a giant tamed mutated rat or a super-intelligent rad scorpion. Friends don't always walk on 2 legs.

No need to reserve a spot, just make pets able to be NPC's.

-somewhat realistic character creation and development. No 1 intelligence, 1 charisma, 10 str, 10 agil guys. Maybe have recruit archetypes (survivalist, soldier, medic, scout, engineer, etc...) to select at start. I'm not sure I want classes but I don't like min/maxing. Maybe separate skills by type (weapons, athletics, fine motor, technical, etc...) and as characters level up they get points to spend in each type.

I really dislike Archetypes in this sort of game. But I understand what you are talking about. I don't disagree, I just don't see how to easily avoid some degree of minmaxing.

[nathanknaack]

-somewhat realistic character creation and development. No 1 intelligence, 1 charisma, 10 str, 10 agil guys. Maybe have recruit archetypes (survivalist, soldier, medic, scout, engineer, etc...) to select at start. I'm not sure I want classes but I don't like min/maxing. Maybe separate skills by type (weapons, athletics, fine motor, technical, etc...) and as characters level up they get points to spend in each type.

I really dislike Archetypes in this sort of game. But I understand what you are talking about. I don't disagree, I just don't see how to easily avoid some degree of minmaxing.

I'd like to have optional "career" templates new players can pick to help them create characters, but all they would do is allocate the points for you in a reasonable fashion. Sort of like the default characters you start with in Wasteland 1.

But don't make them mandatory; I'd still like to be able to tweak my stats!

[Drool]

-no energy weapons/powered armor; end game gets boring with same gear. A nice variety of firearms and combat armor type body armor at end game would be fine.

Something's still gonna be the best. You've just switched "the best" from evocative things like Ion Beamers and Mason Cannons to mundane things like assault rifles. Not really an improvement, especially when high tech is already canon.

Maybe end game enemies have some powerful sci fi stuff (that you have to use tactics to overcome) but you cannot loot/use it.

-allow looting of all enemy gear (that survives combat) but inventory is limited to what characters can carry (weight and size limited).

Um...

[Inca]

Will be 30 year veteran in 2016
I Like pretty much all of OP ideas, I would add a couple:
some romance/friendship
some strategic overtones like "your" village/base
some trade, maybe like Pirates!, Space Rangers
Generally Mount and Blade feel, but without button twitch that was required, more skill based.

[Enclave]

While I agree with you on many points I completely disagree with:

-Turn based tactical combat similar to X-Com/JA2 a must (tactical map, friendly fire, line of sight, fog of war, cover, thrown weapons, indirect fire, scouting, stealth and interrupts). Add quick combat option for trivial combats (Wizard's Crown had a quick combat option and you better be a lot better then opponents if you use it)

I don't want combat to be taking forever and a day and if we get this kind of combat then it simply will. The thing about games like Jagged Alliance is that the games are ALL about the combat and thus having a deep engrossing combat system works. This isn't all about the combat though, it's about the story. I really don't need to be stuck in 30 min worth of combat every time I'm going between towns. That's a very good way to make me shelve the game.

A Fallout style of combat with some tweaks really would be ideal. It's quick (with the right tweaks) and everybody easily understands how it works. It may not have the super tactical mechanics that some people want but really all those mechanics do quite often is draw the fights out longer.

[BlackGauntlet]

Since I started playing arcade games in the 70's, does that make me a more decorated veteran?

[Aldereth]

-cumulative and cooperative skill checks (if two characters have demolitions skill the chance to disarm a bomb is slightly higher)

Yes, that's something that should be in games 20 years ago

Essentially agree with the rest to a varying degree.

Specifically, I am not as against power armor and sci-fi weapon. I am more against the "power creep" near endgame for almost every CRPG, Shooter, whatever that trivialize the combat system which is like anywhere from 70%-95% of gameplay depending on genre. I think the problem lies not in the gear but the endgame play balance. And in terms of gear, I would rather like to see a game that successfully does "signature weapon" right. Like Dirty Harry has his S & W Model 29. I would acutally think less of Dirty Harry if he resort to power armor and ray gun.

[clippedwolf]

-cumulative and cooperative skill checks (if two characters have demolitions skill the chance to disarm a bomb is slightly higher)

Specifically, I am not as against power armor and sci-fi weapon. I am more against the "power creep" near endgame.. I think the problem lies not in the gear but the endgame play balance.

Yes, again, for cooperative skill checks, and yes for energy weapons.
Just as an example, skills from WL1 that seem like they might have benefited from a group include Bomb Disarm, Medic, Bureaucracy, Electronics, Clone tech, and Doctor.

[Aldereth]

Since I started playing arcade games in the 70's, does that make me a more decorated veteran?

No, 30 years make you a decorated veteran. You sir, are our "Sensei"

[Harpo]

-no energy weapons/powered armor; end game gets boring with same gear. A nice variety of firearms and combat armor type body armor at end game would be fine.

Something's still gonna be the best. You've just switched "the best" from evocative things like Ion Beamers and Mason Cannons to mundane things like assault rifles. Not really an improvement, especially when high tech is already canon.

I would like to see these. But I also want some attention being put towards the role play spoiling fact that all characters in the squad have no incentives whatsoever to wear anything else. There should exist as many reasons to choose equivalent armor such as kevlar armor, standard military armor and such. It would both look silly and totally spoil all characterization if my entire squad is turned into 7 laser rifle carrying metal cans.

[Aldereth]

I would like to see these. But I also want some attention being put towards the role play spoiling fact that all characters in the squad have no incentives whatsoever to wear anything else. There should exist as many reasons to choose equivalent armor such as kevlar armor, standard military armor and such. It would both look silly and totally spoil all characterization if my entire squad is turned into 7 laser rifle carrying metal cans.

On that note, I would rather see my party using mostly modern day firearms or slightly more advance version. Instead let the team great skill with them or have certain perks/feats that lower level doesn't have. One or two ray gun is flavor, more than that is just fan service IMHO.

[Drool]

There should exist as many reasons to choose equivalent armor such as kevlar armor, standard military armor and such.

Kevlar? Don't see it, honestly. Perhaps if you have to infiltrate something, you'll be stuck with your Bullet Proof Shirts, but in many cases, I see it being pretty linear. However, the original did give a nod to this: only Rad Suits protected you from radioactive tiles.

Which was an unpleasant shock the first time I waltzed through some radioactive waste, expecting my Power Armor to protect me.

[Harpo]

I see it being pretty linear.

Which is a flaw, in my eyes, introduced when RPGs where carried over from pen & paper onto computers, when the game master who could account for advantages and disadvantages in the blink of an eye, was replaced by limiting game mechanics that restrict the role playing aspects of gear.

[Woolfe]

I see it being pretty linear.

Which is a flaw, in my eyes, introduced when RPGs where carried over from pen & paper onto computers, when the game master who could account for advantages and disadvantages in the blink of an eye, was replaced by limiting game mechanics that restrict the role playing aspects of gear.

I agree... but it's a flaw that can be worked with. Have a tier system but make differences viable within it.

So 1 bit of Armour is the best for a straight up fire fight, but maybe another bit of armour gives you more stat bonuses, for less protection. Or just different stat bonuses. Another bit of armour is better against Energy weapons, but doesn't work well against explosive etc. There is room to appeal to everyone.

[ballonmann]

So 1 bit of Armour is the best for a straight up fire fight, but maybe another bit of armour gives you more stat bonuses, for less protection. Or just different stat bonuses. Another bit of armour is better against Energy weapons, but doesn't work well against explosive etc.

Fallout did exactly this. Metal armor gave you benefits against laser, while others were better against other types of damage. Simply have different damage thresholds/damage reduction factors for each type of armor. You might also have armor with different DR/DT combinations: one armor has a high DT, but blocks nothing after DT is overcome, while another has low DT, but high DR. The first is useful against "small" weapons, the second might be better against things "bigger" weapons.

[Harpo]

These are the kind of ideas I am looking for. If they can make armor choice that interesting i'd be thrilled!

[UniversalWolf]

I don't want combat to be taking forever and a day and if we get this kind of combat then it simply will. The thing about games like Jagged Alliance is that the games are ALL about the combat and thus having a deep engrossing combat system works. This isn't all about the combat though, it's about the story.

It's perfectly possible to have both. In fact having both would make it one of the best games ever.

I don't have any problem with recreating the old Wasteland combat in an updated form as a quick-battle mode, though.

[Harpo]

I don't want combat to be taking forever and a day and if we get this kind of combat then it simply will. The thing about games like Jagged Alliance is that the games are ALL about the combat and thus having a deep engrossing combat system works. This isn't all about the combat though, it's about the story.

It's perfectly possible to have both. In fact having both would make it one of the best games ever.

I wouldn't mind seeing a quick combat system. However - I do want to stress the fact that if it becomes less tactical it runs a high risk of becoming a boring task all-n-all. That would be horrible since combat constitutes such a large portion of the game.

The point I really wanted to make is that the original X-COM game managed tactical combat alongside two other large game elements (geoscape strategy and base/research/funding management) and was still considered one of the best games in the world. So it is absolutely manageable to have tactical combat alongside other game elements (like story) and still have it work really well.

[UniversalWolf]

...it is absolutely manageable to have tactical combat alongside other game elements (like story) and still have it work really well.

I agree completely. Deep tactical combat and a good story are not mutually exclusive.