Quality voice acting for major bosses/characters!

[spoonage]

Talking heads or bust.

*sniggers*
heh talking heads or BUST!
*sniggers*


Seriously though; for voice acting if anyone's thinking well known B-list celebs for more than say 1 character your doing it wrong. You'd think there were plenty of relatively unknown people that could do voice acting just as well as a celebrity...

[LostSoul]

Most good voice actors are not well known names (outside of voice acting circles). It is also true that not every good actor makes for a good voice actor either (though some have certainly surprised me with their attempts at it). However, one thing that is generally quite true is that you get what you pay for. If you pay for VA work on the cheap, you're going to get cheap VA work and it will almost certainly sound like cheap VA...and that's worse than no VA at all.

[newyawk]

Th3 recording and editing quality is the most important part. The whole voice acting scene is a joke, spawned from the whole lame Hollywood sceme

[Erachten]

I definitely think that voice acting should not be a big concern. Can really good voice acting do a lot for a game? Hell yea. It's one of the main reasons I loved Enslaved. But for a large RPG it is not such a big concern. When you're a company like Bioware, that now has EA money backing you, you can afford such a large budget on just the VA. I'd rather see the money for this game go to better uses then having it fully voiced.

Plus, as someone on a different forum mentioned before, VAing can limit a RPG. If every line is spoken then that might mean you have to cut out choices or even whole quests just to fit budgeting or time restraints. A good example they gave is that in a non voiced game, if the writers look at a conversation path and realize they could do a little more with it, maybe add a whole other branch that can lead you talking your way out of something, they can just write it in and the game is better for it. If the game is voiced however, they then have to take into account what the additional cost would be, if there's even enough time to get it voiced, and if they can get the person who did the voice back.

The most I'd really care for is little one liners when you click on someone. Sometimes they are the most memorable and can often throw in little inside jokes. I still to this day randomly say things like
"Your a queer fellow aren't you?"
"Go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes!"
Warcraft and Starcraft are also good for this.
"This is my BOOM stick"

[abdiel420]

Grab a guy from Boston or New York with a thick accent. Grab a couple of down south hillbillies... you got yourself voice acting. Voice acting has to be one of the easiest things to do if you have over a 100 IQ and all you need are memorable voices. Maybe they should do a fan casting call for some internet readings. Any one of us would do that shit for free just for fun!

And your basis for saying it is easy is...what? have you done it before? Professionally? Take it from someone who knows, it isn't easy. It's incredibly hard to voice a character realistically. Most VA is flat, because the actor can't convey emotion in their voice alone. They are used to people being able to see their face and read their body language as well. Anyone arguing that non professional voice acting is viable has absolutely no idea what is involved in the process of making something sound good and believable.

[newyawk]

Not trying to say your trade is crap bud. I have acted in some student films and know that to pull off good work is no stroll through the tulips. What I am saying is that if you grab some distinct individuals with some thick accents, the accents themselves convey alot while the type of voice acting needed for this game (small one liners, etc) is relatively small. If you never heard a new yorker yell "we're in fukarwe!", it is definitely something to behold.

BTW- A perfect fit for the game "fukarewe" is anywhere you may be, driving along in your car and asking your spouse "where da fuck are we, where da fuck are we". Hence, Fuckarwe

Sorry bud, wasn't trying to piss on anyones corn pops

[Mordul]

Th3 recording and editing quality is the most important part. The whole voice acting scene is a joke, spawned from the whole lame Hollywood sceme

And where did you come up with that conclusion? The VA scene comes from a growing interest in both foreign films and animated movies (also including foreign animated films.)

And your basis for saying it is easy is...what? have you done it before? Professionally? Take it from someone who knows, it isn't easy. It's incredibly hard to voice a character realistically. Most VA is flat, because the actor can't convey emotion in their voice alone. They are used to people being able to see their face and read their body language as well. Anyone arguing that non professional voice acting is viable has absolutely no idea what is involved in the process of making something sound good and believable.

Thank you for some verification.

While many companies seek out big-name stars to grab the attention of the masses, many actors are not worth the time. Samuel L. Jackson...Why? and the original Resident Evil had both the worst live action acting and the most ridiculous dialogue.

Maybe some people won't care but there is an entire industry in Japan for their voice actors. True many use it to become idols and such, but the competition is much fiercer than anything stateside.

[Woolfe]

Samuel L. Jackson...Why?

Actually Sam L Jackson is one of the few I would expect to translate into a good voice actor.
His voice does convey a lot of emotion. Close your eyes and just listen to him instead of watching him.

But he is an exception. I am still against voice acting. I wouldn't mind a bit of a narrator element.

You know the prologue type thing. But I am seriously meh on voice acting overall.

[b0rsuk]

I'd rather have them spend the money on other things - sounds effects, plot, areas, items... More meat.

[shrubber]

I'm all for limited voice acting like in PS:T and Baldur's Gate. It does add a lot to the important characters, and doesn't limit expansive dialogue choices in any way.

If it's a cost issue, I'd like to see some real figures from Inxile about what they'd have to sacrifice for this, if anything.

[Nemo]

Two words: Mark Hamill.

[Vryheid]

If every line is spoken then that might mean you have to cut out choices or even whole quests just to fit budgeting or time restraints.

It isn't that hard to write out all the conversations for main characters first and then add the voice acting afterwards. Do you honestly think that the writers are going to be modifying major quests at the last minute simply because they have nothing better to do than throw in random dialogue options for NPCs? Come on now, the developers will have plenty of time to get proper voice acting added.

[ffordesoon]

It isn't that hard to write out all the conversations for main characters first and then add the voice acting afterwards. Do you honestly think that the writers are going to be modifying major quests at the last minute simply because they have nothing better to do than throw in random dialogue options for NPCs? Come on now, the developers will have plenty of time to get proper voice acting added.

I'm a journeyman writer, I've made a short film, I know a fair bit about the way voice acting is handled in games, and I've even done a little voiceover work myself. I'm not saying that to brag, merely to point out my meager but real credentials in this area, so I can tell you honestly that yes, it is an enormous undertaking, even when it's just the limited VO of something like Fallout 1. You wanna know why Bethesda's dialogue is so flat and dull? It's not because the writers or the actors lack talent. It's because they spread themselves too thin coming up with and recording absolutely everything that absolutely everyone will say, and they record all the lines and block out the story before the game is anything but a bunch of design documents. The actors aren't allowed to improvise or to get to know their characters at all, because there's no time. By the same token, the writing is locked in once it's recorded, whether it works or not, because there's no time to get the actors back in the booth. Anyone who writes for actors will tell you, a process that works like that does not produce an end product that's remotely up to code.

Conversely, Fallout 1's acting is often better than the dialogue itself. Why is that? Because only a few characters spoke in that game, and so they spent a lot of extra time properly preparing the actors for their roles.

And as for not being able to change stuff not mattering, that is a flat-out falsehood. My go-to example: George Lucas passed off the direction of Empire Strikes Back to his old theater professor, Irvin Kershner, right? Which is what saved Star Wars from becoming a cultural footnote, in my view, because Kershner knew how to work with actors. Where Lucas was always a very controlling and cold writer-director who required his actors to say their lines the way he wrote them, Kershner knew that if he let the actors do their thing and changed the script accordingly, they'd get some magic moments. And he was absolutely right. The memorable exchange between Princess Leia and Han Solo right before he gets frozen in carbonite ("I love you!" "I know.")? Originally, Han was going to say "I love you too." That was all wrong for the character, and Harrison Ford knew it. So he went to Kershner on the day of filming, and Kershner told him to try doing it his way. If it had been Lucas in the director's chair that day, he would have probably forced Ford to deliver the original line. Because Kershner was there instead, we got one of the great character-defining moments in nerd cinema.

Another quick example: while the Uncharted series has plenty of issues, its strong point is undoubtedly its acting. This is because the game is completely linear, so improvisation is freely encouraged. All those little grunts and groans and "NONONO" moments that Nolan North throws in there are completely improvised on the spot as North watches the game being played. The actors also mocap the cinematic scenes together, and are allowed to banter freely in-character. The result contributes a hell of a lot to those games.

The point being, sometimes changing stuff at the last minute or improvising throwaway lines improves the end product immeasurably.

[Woolfe]

<Good Stuff SNIPPED>.

You sir, have almost convinced me that VA for the major bosses/NPCs might be worthwhile.

Almost.

I still want them to focus more on the game and story than on voice acting

[Zome]

Voice acting for the important Characters and moments is a good idea for sure! Having someone conveying the emotions in Vox can really make or break some moments. I would love to be able to be involved in something like that and I would do it for free!!

[ffordesoon]

<Good Stuff SNIPPED>.

You sir, have almost convinced me that VA for the major bosses/NPCs might be worthwhile.

Almost.

I still want them to focus more on the game and story than on voice acting

It's a good thing I'm for as little voice acting as possible, then, isn't it?

[BluPhenix316]

How about getting us to do the voice acting for major parts? They can spend time on making the game and writing the scripts, and they could have a section on here, a quasi-competition where people would do the voice acting and the winner would be included in the game.

[Vryheid]

I'm a journeyman writer, I've made a short film, I know a fair bit about the way voice acting is handled in games, and I've even done a little voiceover work myself. I'm not saying that to brag, merely to point out my meager but real credentials in this area, so I can tell you honestly that yes, it is an enormous undertaking, even when it's just the limited VO of something like Fallout 1.

So is developing a whole frigging video game, yet this can be dealt with through proper time management. If Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2 managed to add a decent amount of voice acting, I do not believe for one moment that the developers on Wasteland 2 cannot do so as well.

You wanna know why Bethesda's dialogue is so flat and dull?

It isn't.

It's because they spread themselves too thin coming up with and recording absolutely everything that absolutely everyone will say, and they record all the lines and block out the story before the game is anything but a bunch of design documents.

The actors aren't allowed to improvise or to get to know their characters at all, because there's no time. By the same token, the writing is locked in once it's recorded, whether it works or not, because there's no time to get the actors back in the booth. Anyone who writes for actors will tell you, a process that works like that does not produce an end product that's remotely up to code.

Conversely, Fallout 1's acting is often better than the dialogue itself. Why is that? Because only a few characters spoke in that game, and so they spent a lot of extra time properly preparing the actors for their roles.

And as for not being able to change stuff not mattering, that is a flat-out falsehood. My go-to example: George Lucas passed off the direction of Empire Strikes Back to his old theater professor, Irvin Kershner, right? Which is what saved Star Wars from becoming a cultural footnote, in my view, because Kershner knew how to work with actors. Where Lucas was always a very controlling and cold writer-director who required his actors to say their lines the way he wrote them, Kershner knew that if he let the actors do their thing and changed the script accordingly, they'd get some magic moments. And he was absolutely right. The memorable exchange between Princess Leia and Han Solo right before he gets frozen in carbonite ("I love you!" "I know.")? Originally, Han was going to say "I love you too." That was all wrong for the character, and Harrison Ford knew it. So he went to Kershner on the day of filming, and Kershner told him to try doing it his way. If it had been Lucas in the director's chair that day, he would have probably forced Ford to deliver the original line. Because Kershner was there instead, we got one of the great character-defining moments in nerd cinema.

What it your point? This has nothing to do with my original statement, which was that having the game writers spend all their extra time adding a bunch of random dialog trees is a waste of time. Reading through endless walls of text in a video game gets tiring pretty dang fast. I would much rather have quality over quantity in NPC conversations, and voice acting is major part of that.

And I'm not sure why you don't think the developers couldn't simply rerecord one segment of dialogue if they absolutely needed it changed. I'm just saying that if the writers are doing a remotely competent job, they should be able to get the vast majority of the major conversations finalized long before voice acting begins. I don't think it was that difficult in the example you gave to change three words of dialogue, and I don't think it would be so difficult to do so either in Wasteland 2. On the other hand, expecting the developers to be hacking together the fundamental pieces of these conversations at the last minute is ridiculous.

The point being, sometimes changing stuff at the last minute or improvising throwaway lines improves the end product immeasurably.

Once again. What the heck does this have to do with my original point? If a writer absolutely wants some "throwaway" line thrown in at the last minute, they can do so in one of the non voice acted segments of dialogue. If it really was that crucial that it needed to be voice acted then the writers should have come up with it to begin with.

[Erachten]

If every line is spoken then that might mean you have to cut out choices or even whole quests just to fit budgeting or time restraints.

It isn't that hard to write out all the conversations for main characters first and then add the voice acting afterwards. Do you honestly think that the writers are going to be modifying major quests at the last minute simply because they have nothing better to do than throw in random dialogue options for NPCs? Come on now, the developers will have plenty of time to get proper voice acting added.

I said if they did every line spoken, not just major quests. And on a budget like this, it is conceivable that a larger side quest might get scrapped because of a budget limit, and having every line voiced would be a big part of that cost.

And besides, there's been times where I've been doing some writing and later on go back to proof read, only to see a line here or there that wasn't perfect. So I just hit the backspace and fix them. When voice acting's brought into it, that's not possible.

And mind you, I'm not against voice acting. I normally love it and think it has added depth to games plenty of times. I'm just saying for this game specifically, with it's limited time frame and budget, being fully voiced is not something I would worry about.

[Geese Howard]

Personally, I don't think it would be that hard to find decent voice actors for cheap; you don't need movie stars to get decent voice acting. Heck, I bet they could even get someone like Felicia Day do voice acting for free (who is a big supporter of the gaming community).