Power Armour dominating late game

[Inca]

Below is the fallout Power armour description

The armor is fitted with a back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack which generates an output power of 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit. Made of a poly-laminate composite, the outer shell of the T-51b is lightweight and capable of absorbing over 2500 Joules of kinetic impact. The 10-micron-thick silver ablative coating can reflect laser and other radiation emissions without damage to the composite subsurface. The armor usually carries enough fuel to last for one hundred years.

Something caught my eye in this description, capable of absorbing over 2500 Joules of kinetic impact , this will definitely be punched through by 7.62X51 NATO round

[Woolfe]

So Our definitions of Power Armour are getting larger

Power Armour -

Shielded - Creates a "field" of some type that improves defence.
- Passive - the field is always on and covers the entire "suit".
- Active - the field affects only the point of impact.

Enhanced - The armour enhances the physical attributes of the wearer, enabling them to wear heavier armour.

Vehicle - The Power armour suit is more akin to Mecha/Gear in which the physical attributes of the user are immaterial (or Manual dexterity is the only one which counts)

These are the 3 main areas I can see, there would no doubt be some degree of overlap allowed as well.

So the above still stands?

You couldn't/wouldn't operate the legs by using fingertip controls; that would be awkward and unwieldy.

Not true, you only have to see the skill that people operate modern machinery with now. But there would be a lot of experience and skill in doing it, more so than just "wearing a suit". Which is where I agree with you the obvious choice for me as well is a more traditional armour "suit".

The more complicated a device is, the greater the probability that something WILL go wrong.

which is why you simplify as much as possible, which could be a reason for the Enormous Bolt on the armour image of the F1 suit. You use parts that can be replaced relatively easily, and you make them as hard to damage as possible.

The reality is this is "magic" tech, as in suitably advanced that it seems like magic. Perhaps the hydraulics, and servomotors themselves are simple and the only complex part is hidden deep in the armour right next to your vital organs. So if you die, the armour is probably shagged.

[Woolfe]

Below is the fallout Power armour description

The armor is fitted with a back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack which generates an output power of 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit. Made of a poly-laminate composite, the outer shell of the T-51b is lightweight and capable of absorbing over 2500 Joules of kinetic impact. The 10-micron-thick silver ablative coating can reflect laser and other radiation emissions without damage to the composite subsurface. The armor usually carries enough fuel to last for one hundred years.

Something caught my eye in this description, capable of absorbing over 2500 Joules of kinetic impact , this will definitely be punched through by 7.62X51 NATO round

It wasn't impenetrable, just the best.

[Drool]

He's not a twelve foot tall monster with his hands up by his elbows.

Absolutely nobody has said or implied otherwise.[/quote]
...

You did. Okay, I exaggerated by saying "elbows" but his hands aren't in his forearms either.

[JerryLove]

Gah this thing has gotten boring.

No one wears ancient armor any more? Know why? Because it's not as useful against real threats as other options.

Let's rephrase that: while (at present) no armor is ideal for all situations, some armor is clearly superior to some other armor in any modern battlefield. Not all armors are created equal. They never were.

So. Is powered armor the end-all and be-all of armors in a battle? That will depend on the weapons present and the nature of the armor.

[Mathsorcerer]

hrm...I thought this was a game, as in "not real". There is no such thing as "power armor" except in the game, which means it doesn't have to follow the *real* laws of physics, or physiology, or practicality.

You buy a set of power armor from a store or find one in a closet. It wasn't made for you but you can put it on and it fits. It doesn't matter if it makes sense--it's a game. It doesn't matter what the power source is, how it protects you from damage, whether it has servo motors or hydraulics or magic--it is fake armor in a game.

What are its stats? It gives your character a certain armor class, protects you from a certain amount of damage, possibly increases your strength. That is all we need to have functional power armor in a game.

[cmagruder]

I don't think people are arguing against functional power armor (at least I'm not.) People are just suggesting that there could be more than one gear progression.

[suz]

This has gotten boring cause people are arguing semantics and not the actual issue.

Most of what's suggested is making several different armors instead of one catch-all called "power armor" giving a +X points of STR.

Why a completely powered armor:

Doesn't have any kind of stabilizers to improve accuracy, surgical skills, overall dexterity?
Doesn't have any kind of VR visor which highlights targets, IR vision, UV vision?
Doesn't have a monitor capable of displaying: medical data and injury treatment methods, scientific data, chemical information.
Doesn't have active camouflage? There's even stuff that can change color with current right now.
Doesn't have voltage on the upper body to shock melee opponents into submission?
Doesn't have built in multi-band radio with retractable antenna?
Doesn't have automated tourniquets for stopping bleeding, auto-applying clotting agents, automated drug injections against shock/stress/fear/radiation?

And finally, but most importantly why doesn't it have a damn backscratcher?!

If I was living in a scifi world:

If I was a military contractor that's the first things I'd offer to provide because that would give an edge over competition.
If I was the project manager on behalf of military that's the first things I'd ask for because losing just one suit cause some soldier panicked/went into shock is extremely expensive
If I was someone who wore a powered suit those are the first things I'd handicraft if they ain't provided.

And that's just a few ideas off the top of my mind that in my opinion are better than going for a classic +3/4 STR boost like fallout did.

[nathanknaack]

People are just suggesting that there could be more than one gear progression.

This, especially as it applies to different skill specializations and play styles.

[CaptainPatch]

hrm...I thought this was a game, as in "not real". There is no such thing as "power armor" except in the game, which means it doesn't have to follow the *real* laws of physics, or physiology, or practicality.

There is "realistic" and then there is "Real" (as in "Real Lfe"). The more realistic an item is, the more immersive the environment can be. (Not to say that the game IS immersive, but it can at least lean in that direction.) If the presentation shows how an as-yet-not-available item would probably work, it makes the Make Believe more believable. If you figure that's too much bother then we could take other elements in the game away from being realistic and just make them generic based on functionality: Projectile weapons could be called "boomsticks". TNT and plastic explosives could be called "Booms" and "Kabooms". And all the different armors could dump description labels and just become "AC-1", "AC-2", "AC-3", etc.

Now wouldn't that make the game simpler and more fun?

[Mathsorcerer]

Projectile weapons could be called "boomsticks"

Now that you mention it, perhaps there *should* be a unique shotgun called the Boomstick.

You do make a good point, though, in that allowing for some believability enhances the overall experience. I was merely responding to the people getting bogged down in the actual science of how power armor would work.

There are working exoskeletons in existence that do somewhat enhance the wearer's ability to carry a heavy load, but we are still nowhere near having more free-moving exoskeletons that incorporate armor plating.

[CaptainPatch]

There are working exoskeletons in existence that do somewhat enhance the wearer's ability to carry a heavy load, but we are still nowhere near having more free-moving exoskeletons that incorporate armor plating.

Which is essentially how I was approaching the subject: Start with a powered STRength-enhancing exoskeleton and work it up to something that was more gymnastic in functionality. Any combat armor that markedly decreases the wearer's agility and dexterity would be rather counter-productive -- it would improve Damage Resistance by making the wearer that much more of an easy target. So I assumed an ablative composite to act as the base armor shell. Attach the powered exoskeleton and then cover that with an additional layer of armor to protect the exoskeleton. Then lace in a wiring harness of "triggers" lining the interior that respond the the user's body movements such that his motions are exactly mirrored by the suit. To get _precise_ triggering stimuli, the user would wear a skinsuit of electrical sensors that reads the body's neuro-chemical signals that the brain sends to the specific muscles that allow us to move as we do. The skinsuit is then what actually interfaces with the armor's interior sensor suite. The net effect would be that the suit is MUCH more finely attuned to the user inside it.

And all that explanation is entirely superfluous to "It just works; that's all one needs to know." However, having how it most likely would work, I now have a clearer idea of what the armor's strengths and weaknesses would be, as well as just what and how Attributes are enhanced or depressed.

[deus]

This has gotten boring cause people are arguing semantics and not the actual issue.

Most of what's suggested is making several different armors instead of one catch-all called "power armor" giving a +X points of STR.

Why a completely powered armor:

Doesn't have any kind of stabilizers to improve accuracy, surgical skills, overall dexterity?
Doesn't have any kind of VR visor which highlights targets, IR vision, UV vision?
Doesn't have a monitor capable of displaying: medical data and injury treatment methods, scientific data, chemical information.
Doesn't have active camouflage? There's even stuff that can change color with current right now.
Doesn't have voltage on the upper body to shock melee opponents into submission?
Doesn't have built in multi-band radio with retractable antenna?
Doesn't have automated tourniquets for stopping bleeding, auto-applying clotting agents, automated drug injections against shock/stress/fear/radiation?

And finally, but most importantly why doesn't it have a damn backscratcher?!

If I was living in a scifi world:

If I was a military contractor that's the first things I'd offer to provide because that would give an edge over competition.
If I was the project manager on behalf of military that's the first things I'd ask for because losing just one suit cause some soldier panicked/went into shock is extremely expensive
If I was someone who wore a powered suit those are the first things I'd handicraft if they ain't provided.

And that's just a few ideas off the top of my mind that in my opinion are better than going for a classic +3/4 STR boost like fallout did.

Sorry, but this section is reserved for game mechanics, you can post your FLUFF suggestions in Lore&Setting.

[suz]

Sorry, but this section is reserved for game mechanics, you can post your FLUFF suggestions in Lore&Setting.

These are all examples of game mechanics applicable to a suit of powered armor.
Take your (in your opinion) smartass remarks elsewhere.

[JerryLove]

There is "realistic" and then there is "Real" (as in "Real Lfe"). The more realistic an item is, the more immersive the environment can be.

In writing SciFi, they discuss "miracles" and their number. Generally speaking: it's better to run with fewer miracles; though there are exceptions.

What is important is that the *consequences* of miracles are understood and consistent. Despite Lucas' apparent belief going into Phantom Menace: we don't need to understand *how* the force works, just what it does. If you feel you can posit hypotheticals within an environment: then you've likely done a decent job. If you can't, you've done a poor one.

[CaptainPatch]

Despite Lucas' apparent belief going into Phantom Menace: we don't need to understand *how* the force works, just what it does. If you feel you can posit hypotheticals within an environment: then you've likely done a decent job. If you can't, you've done a poor one.

Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

I'm with Han on this one.

[Ohminageeshi]

Hello, and thank you for letting me join. Here is a simple idea. We have all seen the pic for the new Scorpitron 2.0 , this may or may not be the hardest baddie in the game. People...look at that things gun, that has to spew out 20mm at least. I don't care what you PA is...it is going to give you a VERY bad day.

[Drool]

Scorpitron 2.0 , this may or may not be the hardest baddie in the game.

I hope it isn't the hardest. The original was memorable and tougher than anything up to that point and in that area, but it was far from the hardest.

[Hiver]

This has gotten boring cause people are arguing semantics and not the actual issue.

Most of what's suggested is making several different armors instead of one catch-all called "power armor" giving a +X points of STR.

Why a completely powered armor:

Doesn't have any kind of stabilizers to improve accuracy, surgical skills, overall dexterity?
Doesn't have any kind of VR visor which highlights targets, IR vision, UV vision?
Doesn't have a monitor capable of displaying: medical data and injury treatment methods, scientific data, chemical information.
Doesn't have active camouflage? There's even stuff that can change color with current right now.
Doesn't have voltage on the upper body to shock melee opponents into submission?
Doesn't have built in multi-band radio with retractable antenna?
Doesn't have automated tourniquets for stopping bleeding, auto-applying clotting agents, automated drug injections against shock/stress/fear/radiation?

And finally, but most importantly why doesn't it have a damn backscratcher?!

If I was living in a scifi world:

If I was a military contractor that's the first things I'd offer to provide because that would give an edge over competition.
If I was the project manager on behalf of military that's the first things I'd ask for because losing just one suit cause some soldier panicked/went into shock is extremely expensive
If I was someone who wore a powered suit those are the first things I'd handicraft if they ain't provided.

And that's just a few ideas off the top of my mind that in my opinion are better than going for a classic +3/4 STR boost like fallout did.

Great post.
I completely agree.

Power armor should be made more versatile - which would give more models to choose from, each with its own specific enhancements.

And lets not forget the drawbacks too, since carefully designed sensible ones could provide balance and make PA less of an ultimate armor. I would rather see it as a limited resource instead.

Power consumption is certainly one such possible drawback. If amount of "fuel" left in some PA is limited then the usage of PA would change radically. (provided there is no way of fueling it again or if even that is short term)

Inability to sneak around would be another good balance, even if PA had some advanced camouflage capabilities.
But those are usually reserved for other types of armors in order not to make PA the ultimate mcguffin item.

I would also limit the availability of enhancements based on skills of a character using it.
High technical and science skills should be required to operate it, right?
Especially if there is no more training and education about it available.

Each PA should not be fully operational either.
And damage it sustains over time it is used, should shut down its specific features too.

[Gizmo]

I would also limit the availability of enhancements based on skills of a character using it.
High technical and science skills should be required to operate it, right?
Especially if there is no more training and education about it available.

This wouldn't seem so to me. Ideally their military would want the suit to be high-tech enough that the operator would not need a lot of extensive training to use it; but the repair crew would need the skills to fix it or adjust it.

The operator would likely just have to climb in and spend a few minutes (hours?) getting used to it.

Imagine the PC's find a PA suit that was running the maintenance default settings and actually lowered the wearers strength for wearing it; it wouldn't lift more than it's base weight + 20 pounds.
The PC's would have to have the skills to adjust it, or pay someone else to get it combat ready.