Some looks back at contemporary propaganda

[rekzkarz]

We live in a society that is almost full of lies and propaganda.

If you have the courage to address or reference anything 'real', like the worlds largest lie is that a capitalist country with an global empire is threatened by poor people with lots of oil -- esp after giving them $2bil in weapons.

Or racism? Or capitalism somehow creating a better world & healthy environment. (Yeah, right!!!)

One way to address this could be
An old used car lot leaking oil and gas taken over by 'orphan gang' (finally a scenario where you can't just shoot all the 'baddies'),
A Muslim who is a good guy (we don't get that much in USA anymore),
A neoNazi group of marauders that wants to kill any non-white NPC's / heroes,
A holdover wealthy corp attempts to reclaim an area (neighborhood) & overthrow the govt,
Etc

I can offer more political topics -- but media / art has more punch when it has a sharp socially relevant edge.
Another angle -- just how did the world go post-apocalyptic? Was it global warming & burning all the oil, a nuke tsunami quake, Godzilla GM monsters, or ...?

[cah]

just how did the world go post-apocalyptic? Was it global warming & burning all the oil, a nuke tsunami quake, Godzilla GM monsters, or ...?

Nukes. Why don't you even bother doing your homework first?

[Drool]

Nukes. Why don't you even bother doing your homework first?

Looks like he's more interested in grinding an axe than actually contributing. Kind of like RetreattoLove, except stupid politics instead of stupid Japanese games.

[rekzkarz]

Looks like he's more interested in grinding an axe than actually contributing. Kind of like RetreattoLove, except stupid politics instead of stupid Japanese games.

Wasteland is a post-apocalyptic game concept.

It's not stupid to address what brings the apocalypse.

Your attempt to 'box me in' is unflattering -- to you. Shows your lack of perspective, lack of vision, and eagerness to judge.

I'm stunned that people talk to eachother with zero regard online, but if we were face-2-face this dude wouldn't have the courage to say a word.

Here's another example, someone in game could say that the end started when "Nettiquette" died.

[krellen]

Wasteland is a post-apocalyptic game concept.

Wasteland is a pre-existing title, with a backstory and history established 25 years ago. That's what we mean by "doing the research". The original manual already described "what brings the apocalypse".

Why did you think there was a "2" in the title otherwise?

[Drool]

It's not stupid to address what brings the apocalypse.

What brought the apocalypse was established 24 years ago. The US launched the Citadel Superstation which many claimed to be nothing more than an orbital weapons platform. While everyone was yelling at each other about it, all communications satellites "went dark", effectively leaving everyone blind. Each side, assuming the blackout was the action of the other side, launched the vast majority of their nuclear arsenals. The resulting nuclear devastation is the apocalypse. Skip ahead about 70 years from that point and you have the setting of the first game. Skip ahead another 8 months to a year (most likely) and you have the second game.

[Mordul]

Since Droll and krellen have already established the apocalypse, I will address the OP and anyone who wants to chime in.

What tone are we looking for in Wasteland? Seriously the most quoted stories I read on the forums are about the black/Crazy HUMOR of the game. (All names have no citations so back me up with better examples, please) Bobby and his dog. Farmer and the Rabbit-King. The Fat Guy who is so grotesque he is inhuman, but who apparently commands immediate respect for those in his presence.

I can easily see how contemporary issues could be exaggerated into hyperbole in the post-apocalypse. Something like a group who tries to continue humanity, but only with Pure Americans/Mexicans/Displaced Japanese. By the time the Desert Rangers come upon the group the last two males kill each other leaving a society destined to die. Or a group who set up a "true" Democracy where everyone not only can vote everyone MUST vote. But this leads to a problem whenever some one becomes pregnant. When does the baby get to vote? Does the mother get the baby's vote? What about marriage? Must the entire community agree to the match? Divorce? Can the group elect a representative to meet with outsiders? But what if s/he fails to follow the will of the community? How do trade negotiations with merchants resolve?

[Drool]

The Fat Guy who is so grotesque he is inhuman, but who apparently commands immediate respect for those in his presence.

Fat Freddy commands respect the same way any other crime lord does: through fear and intimidation. He's got thugs and goons with guns and people who don't respect him end up dead. Much like the character he directly inspired in Fallout: Gizmo.

[cah]

I can easily see how contemporary issues could be exaggerated into hyperbole in the post-apocalypse. Something like a group who tries to continue humanity, but only with Pure Americans/Mexicans/Displaced Japanese. By the time the Desert Rangers come upon the group the last two males kill each other leaving a society destined to die. Or a group who set up a "true" Democracy where everyone not only can vote everyone MUST vote. But this leads to a problem whenever some one becomes pregnant. When does the baby get to vote? Does the mother get the baby's vote? What about marriage? Must the entire community agree to the match? Divorce? Can the group elect a representative to meet with outsiders? But what if s/he fails to follow the will of the community? How do trade negotiations with merchants resolve?

These seem more childish than a hyperbole.

[Drool]

Scifi requires reference. With less cultural references, it loses itself.

I don't agree with this at all. Modern pop culture demands references to itself, but sci-fi certainly doesn't. Generally, such things distract and detract rather than add. You either spend time trying to figure out a blatant reference you don't get, or get pulled out to pat yourself on the back for getting a 10%er. References can be fun, but they're hardly critical.

You remind me of small minded people who argued that the Earth was flat

People did all sorts of crazy things in 1956.

[Nephilim]

An old used car lot leaking oil and gas taken over by 'orphan gang' (finally a scenario where you can't just shoot all the 'baddies'),

what, why can't I just shoot all the leaking oil from the distance?

[Nephilim]

It's great that we have you here to tell us this and that your beliefs, unlike ours, are not the result of propaganda. Instead they are well researched through scientific and academic journals with your logic and reasoning clearly stated.

[alexandergr]

I hope the game will stick to more realistic views. I hope everyone is portrayed just like the real world we witness every day through the media and not like in the commie propaganda blogs you read.

[rekzkarz]

not like in the commie propaganda blogs you read.

Huh? I read left, center, and right newspapers, not blogs. And I critique all sources. But can you even argue with your Glenn Beck disinformation sources -- do you realize you're being manipulated?
(I have no idea if you listen to that guy. I just dis' him b/c he's so whack!)

It's great that we have you here to tell us this and that your beliefs, unlike ours, are not the result of propaganda. Instead they are well researched through scientific and academic journals with your logic and reasoning clearly stated.

Didn't claim that I'm unaffected by propaganda, did I? But I can generally identify it -- and most importantly, I know which direction it leans. But I do appreciate your sarcasm and tone.

Jeez, peeps, what an astounding response! Thanks again for more statements lacking content contribution but adding opinion and insult.

Yawn.

[Balls Out 3]

through the media

I really hope this thread doesn't devolve into political bickering, but I personally think the truth is somewhere inbetween. Rekzkarz views are too extreme, but to take what the media tells you at face value is folly. What they will tell you, and what is actually backed up by the evidence, can often be two different things.

But anyway, this thread isn't terribly fruitful. I don't think most of the proposals in it are worthwhile, nor do they really fit the tone of Wasteland.

[Zigmar]

Why not? I really like the classical tin-foil-hatter conspiracy apologist stereotypes. It's never gets old or less funny. It could be funny to have, for example, a character firmly believing the whole apocalypse wasn't a mutual destruction, but say US government orchestrated it all by itself and nukes their own country to inflict a rigid tyranny on citizens and cover up some shit. They can also believe that all other countries are doing well, and it is US govt. who is blocking contact with outside world and preventing their help and intervention. The government itself is sitting in some kind of luxury underground city, manipulating society via proxies, i.e. Desert Rangers who will be feared by conspiracy theorists as government agents.

That's just an example, what I like about conspiracy theories, they are very easy to invent and still sounds exactly like the ones some people actually believe in, despite all the logic flaws in their reasoning

[Grim Monk]

Why not? I really like the classical tin-foil-hatter conspiracy apologist stereotypes. It's never gets old or less funny. It could be funny to have, for example, a character firmly believing the whole apocalypse wasn't a mutual destruction, but say US government orchestrated it all by itself and nukes their own country to inflict a rigid tyranny on citizens and cover up some shit. They can also believe that all other countries are doing well, and it is US govt. who is blocking contact with outside world and preventing their help and intervention. The government itself is sitting in some kind of luxury underground city, manipulating society via proxies, i.e. Desert Rangers who will be feared by conspiracy theorists as government agents.

That's just an example, what I like about conspiracy theories, they are very easy to invent and still sounds exactly like the ones some people actually believe in, despite all the logic flaws in their reasoning

What you describes sounds suspiciously like Enclave from Fallout 2.

[alexandergr]

not like in the commie propaganda blogs you read.

Huh? I read left, center, and right newspapers, not blogs. And I critique all sources. But can you even argue with your Glenn Beck disinformation sources -- do you realize you're being manipulated?

I read this forum. And I see that this thread was started by an uninformed(on the subject) person trying to spread his political ideas through the game*. And then you wonder why people mock you when you talk about propaganda and manipulation? You can't even identify my very obvious trolling. Also, "SPANK"? What the hell are you, 13 years old?

*aka quoting wikipedia: Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.

[Grim Monk]

I definitely think that commentary on our current world is *essential* for Wasteland 2. There's just too much amazing material to pass it up (that's my hope, at least).

But the world of Wasteland 2 is not our world.

Its an alternative reality splitting off from ours around the late 1980s.

Here is an excellent fan made intro for Wasteland 1 which tells the originals back-story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvYcu5qaO-s

Please watch it before posting.

[Zigmar]

What you describes sounds suspiciously like Enclave from Fallout 2.

Now that you tell it do like a bit, even though even enclave/us govt didn't nuked their own country. But the plot line I was thinking about is somewhat different because there wouldn't be such an entity, but some people would still believe there is. And because many villains and plotlines in computer games do pull inspiration out of conspiracy theories it could be even made believable enough in-game so player could be actually tricked into believing it himself, and going after an imaginary enemy. It actually could be quite a fun plot line - like some charismatic conspiracy theorist can convince a player (rangers party) that their officials are evil conspirators, making the party desert the service or even turn against it. I think it could be great! It is even possible to spice things up with a little bit of "evidence" which could be interpreted as supporting the conspiracy theories making player decision even more difficult.