Nationality

[Inca]

Marx! Engels! Lenin! Viva la Revolucion! Death to Capitalist Pigs!
I can see the potential

[Leif]

Marx! Engels! Lenin! Viva la Revolucion! Death to Capitalist Pigs!
I can see the potential

I don't think Communism is an ethnicity. I do, however, hope that being a communist traitor (prisoner?) is an option amongst many when choosing your character's background.

[paultakeda]

Marx! Engels! Lenin! Viva la Revolucion! Death to Capitalist Pigs!
I can see the potential

I don't think Communism is an ethnicity. I do, however, hope that being a communist traitor (prisoner?) is an option amongst many when choosing your character's background.

I don't think that's Inca's point. The reality of the Soviet Union has nothing to do with the doctrine they espoused nor does it have anything to do with how Americans viewed them; the perception of a group has nothing to do with the group in actuality. If someone had a Russian name a person of American nationality descent (you can trace your ancestry to pre-war American families) might have been raised to distrust a person named Ivan walking into the store to buy some bullets.

[Woolfe]

Two problems: Will any of the now-existing nations even survive the Apocalypse? Apart from Australia, obviously. WTF Mate?^^

We will Conquer the WORLD MAUHAHAHAHA....

Or not

I believe in the original it was probably meant to be more about "ethnicity" than "nationality".

It could be an addition to the physical characteristics of the Character creation.

Colour and features for example. It would allow for negative and positive interaction penalties and bonuses. So you have a bunch of Black Panther slavers. If you have light skin or "european" features, they immediately attempt to enslave you. If you are dark skinned and have "African" features, they don't.

Or in a mixed party with One type dominant, maybe they will talk to some party members but not others. Could provide some really interesting dynamics. I imagine someone who identifies as "Russian" might get some stick because it was the damn russians who caused the war and stuff.

[Inca]

I don't think that's Inca's point.

Paultakeda, thumbs up !

Well there two ways this game can go: 2012 politically corrct way or 1988...
Game can use "Nationality" data only to color the skin of the player party, or actually capitalize on sterotypes and make them grotesque exaggerations, kinda like Ivan Draga in Rocky 5.
I am sure there are plenty of asian and african-american gamers, I am sure there will be a lot of gamers from Russia, Europe, China etc. So most likely developers will go Politically correct way.

[paultakeda]

I am sure there are plenty of asian and african-american gamers, I am sure there will be a lot of gamers from Russia, Europe, China etc. So most likely developers will go Politically correct way.

Or be politically incorrect and use every single stereotype possible and in doing so, make it politically neutral and be a lot closer to the reality of group herd mentality that humanity has dealt with since the first time to families decided to put their differences aside to band up and beat the third family, clearly with more differences than either as they are mud-sucking scum.

Polities, groups, race, ethnicity... the entire thing is summed up quite nicely with the biblical story of Babel, no?

"They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withholden from them which they purpose to do. Come, let us go down and confound their speech."

[Leif]

Well there two ways this game can go: 2012 politically corrct way or 1988...
Game can use "Nationality" data only to color the skin of the player party, or actually capitalize on sterotypes and make them grotesque exaggerations, kinda like Ivan Draga in Rocky 5.
I am sure there are plenty of asian and african-american gamers, I am sure there will be a lot of gamers from Russia, Europe, China etc. So most likely developers will go Politically correct way.

Could you explain why you believe there are only two base standpoints available for the themes of the game? What is wrong with making a game about 1998 with the hindsight of 2012? It just seems odd that you make such a great jump between ethnic or national background only being a minor aesthetic choice to being a "grotesque exaggeration". Why no middle ground?

[Harpo]

Two problems: Will any of the now-existing nations even survive the Apocalypse? Apart from Australia, obviously.

I have a vague memory of the Wasteland narrative talking about how Switzerland and Sweden stayed neutral (as always) and avoided being targets in the apocalypse.

EDIT: I found it now. It was in the "let's play Wasteland" introduction. And I wasn't completely correct. Although it was mentioned that Switzerland, Sweden and Ireland remained the only neutral countries in the conflict, it isn't specifically mentioned whether they avoided destruction or not - although that could be considered as implied.

[Woolfe]

Two problems: Will any of the now-existing nations even survive the Apocalypse? Apart from Australia, obviously.

I have a vague memory of the Wasteland narrative talking about how Switzerland and Sweden stayed neutral (as always) and avoided being targets in the apocalypse.

EDIT: I found it now. It was in the "let's play Wasteland" introduction. And I wasn't completely correct. Although it was mentioned that Switzerland, Sweden and Ireland remained the only neutral countries in the conflict, it isn't specifically mentioned whether they avoided destruction or not - although that could be considered as implied.

nah ... Nuke the neutrals too

[Inca]

Could you explain why you believe there are only two base standpoints available for the themes of the game? What is wrong with making a game about 1998 with the hindsight of 2012? It just seems odd that you make such a great jump between ethnic or national background only being a minor aesthetic choice to being a "grotesque exaggeration". Why no middle ground?

I cannot defend this stance, it was just a (wrong) thought. I am sure thsre are plenty of viable alternatives. BTW would you showcase (middle ground) some?

[Badunius]

in "The Postman" Holnists was pretty sensitive about races even half-blood ones
so, why not? the whole nuclear apocalypse thing is based cold war stereotypes
"yes" to nations/races as long (or even if not) this will affect game plot in any way (dialogues/reaction)

[Zombra]

I didn't find it that interesting in Wasteland, and that was before I found out that it has zero effect on the game.

If it actually has some meaning to the gameplay, NPC reactions etc., then sure. I guess it's kind of a question whether the writers want to do stories that explore racial tensions.

[YoungFreud]

I'm pretty sure that Nationality was supposed to play a bigger role in WL1, like all the other stuff that Fargo and crew wanted to do but couldn't implement because of technical limitations.

I think if it was to be implemented in WL2, and I don't see why it wouldn't, I would expect it to have an effect in dealing with certain NPCs or factions (like a particular survivalist group hating Russians), as well as having language cues with certain objects (like finding your band of Rangers in a minefield filled with Chinese mines and it's up to the Chinese-descended Ranger to lead them out safely).

Worldwise, we can assume that the Chinese-Russian invasion ended up much like in Twilight 2000, dug into isolated cantonments, especially separated down Chinese and Russian lines. Then, as time passed and relations normalized, the cantonments became enclaves, at best, or, worse, ghettos inside the surviving population centers. The Rangers would get people from all groups, such as the children of the Army Engineers, prison staff, and survivalists who made up the original Desert Rangers, the kids of Russian or Chinese deserters, Mexicans from dirt farms and villages untouched by the war, and Native Americans who have returned to the tribal ways or just remain dug in on their reservations.

[Drool]

I don't see why. I always assumed Nationality was just a touch of flavor you could add to your characters.

Also, while a land invasion is a pretty popular fan theory, there's nothing to really support it in the actual game or manual text. The manual implies that it was only a nuclear exchange.

[Harpo]

Although I would really like to see the choice of nationality (at least in looks) during character creation, and featured mildly throughout the world for diversity, I would not expect nor vote for it to have any further impact on the game.

[Lucius]

Although I would really like to see the choice of nationality (at least in looks) during character creation, and featured mildly throughout the world for diversity, I would not expect nor vote for it to have any further impact on the game.

I'd agree with this. Also the majority of NPCs in the world should be American caucasian, Hispanic, and black with other races and nationalities significantly less represented due to the location the game takes place.

[Leif]

Could you explain why you believe there are only two base standpoints available for the themes of the game? What is wrong with making a game about 1998 with the hindsight of 2012? It just seems odd that you make such a great jump between ethnic or national background only being a minor aesthetic choice to being a "grotesque exaggeration". Why no middle ground?

I cannot defend this stance, it was just a (wrong) thought. I am sure there are plenty of viable alternatives. BTW would you showcase (middle ground) some?

Let there be blatant racism in the game in this or that part, but elsewhere allow for such rationale to be subjected to different perspectives of critique. Give us players the reality of racism (that already exists around us anyhow) and some good dialogue in game addressing the blatant flaws in racist logic. Post-Apocalyptic society may still experience racism, but after most of the population of Earth is dead folks may have a different perspective on racial prejudice.

[DrunkVision]

Let there be blatant racism in the game in this or that part, but elsewhere allow for such rationale to be subjected to different perspectives of critique. Give us players the reality of racism (that already exists around us anyhow) and some good dialogue in game addressing the blatant flaws in racist logic. Post-Apocalyptic society may still experience racism, but after most of the population of Earth is dead folks may have a different perspective on racial prejudice.

Cromanions do not agree with you, lol. When resources are scarce racism is in full bloom. Racist logic is quite good in such situation, cause well, you would want for your family to survive more than to other families, your nationality more than other nationalities and on the brink of extinction it's the only logical solution. Only good trade system implied can prevent that kind of situation.

[Badunius]

Also, racism could be a good foundation for slavery, and war for resources, you know.
Demonising your enemies (because of their different look or by blaming them in launching nukes years ago) is good way to encourage your soldiers into battle.

[TheDudeOfGaming]

My group is gonna be made up of descendants of Russian Spetsnaz!
The thing about nationality isn't so much for gameplay consequences (although some minor ones would be nice). It's more about being able to point at the nationality of your group as a validation of the background you create for them. Again it doesn't have to be included, but I'd like to see it. I mean the original had the option, don't see why Wasteland 2 can't be the same in that regard. For those of you who don't want the option, there should be an option to simply leave it blank thus making it irrelevant in the game. And obviously an option for those of us who do want it, and everyone's happy.
Also, sorry for the (minor?) necro but uh well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk&t=1m27s