Narrative Mechanic

[nathanknaack]

So, is the general consensus here that we'd like to see bigger stories and some missions (either leading up to recruiting or only available after recruiting) attached to the more important, storyline NPCs?

[paultakeda]

So, is the general consensus here that we'd like to see bigger stories and some missions (either leading up to recruiting or only available after recruiting) attached to the more important, storyline NPCs?

As long as these NPCs can die randomly and the quests, depending on the NPC, either end or become modified to allow continuation without that NPC (you just need them to open it), and that some quests can even be opened without recruiting the recruitable NPC, sure.

[Aldereth]

Played and enjoy the entire ME series. Yes, ME3 ending is underwhelming and make little sense but that's 10 mins out of 50+hours. And I enjoy ME2 the most.

However, I don't think such a character focus approach is appropriate for W2. W2 is shaping up to be a re-introduction of the wasteland world to fans of old Wastland fans as well as newer Fallout fans. ME1 served the ME series as a general introduction to the world as well as some of the characters and ME2 can focus on the "mains". I feel that doing such a character focus plot would take away from the other aspect of the game and ultimately hurt it. Now, if W2 is a success and introduced memorable characters that fans want more of, then a more character driven W3 is perhaps more viable.

Just my 2 cents.

[nathanknaack]

Now, if W2 is a success and introduced memorable characters that fans want more of, then a more character driven W3 is perhaps more viable.

What if they brought back some of the memorable characters from Wasteland 1 and gave them the full narrative treatment in Wasteland 2?

Sure, you're way out in California now, but oh snap, look who it is! It's Covenant, having moved out west since the original game because his boss was killed and there aren't any more robots to fight in Vegas anyway. You hire him on and find out he's got a whole new mini-plot for you to explore this time around, one entirely pertaining to Wasteland 2.

[paultakeda]

What if they brought back some of the memorable characters from Wasteland 1 and gave them the full narrative treatment in Wasteland 2?

We already know about Bobby. Who's to say there aren't others?

[Woolfe]

What if they brought back some of the memorable characters from Wasteland 1 and gave them the full narrative treatment in Wasteland 2?

We already know about Bobby. Who's to say there aren't others?

I wonder if the little bastard is a ranger, or if he went throught the wasteland and is a mutant!!!

[Aldereth]

Now, if W2 is a success and introduced memorable characters that fans want more of, then a more character driven W3 is perhaps more viable.

What if they brought back some of the memorable characters from Wasteland 1 and gave them the full narrative treatment in Wasteland 2?

They can for a character or two. It would be unadvisable to build the whole narrative or main plot on W1 characters, it would run the risk of alienating a lot of people who back the project does not have that background.

Like it or not the old game is almost 30 years old. A good deal of gamers are either not born yet or too young to remember the details.

[paultakeda]

They can for a character or two. It would be unadvisable to build the whole narrative or main plot on W1 characters, it would run the risk of alienating a lot of people who back the project does not have that background.

Like it or not the old game is almost 30 years old. A good deal of gamers are either not born yet or too young to remember the details.

I don't see why this is a problem. A player who never played Wasteland would run into Bobby and Bobby is some big bad meanie out to get the rangers. Players who did play Wasteland would get an added bonus of recognizing Bobby, but this is icing rather than cake. After all, as a kid I just thought it was funny that Cookie Monster kept eating the letter into different letters and it was only years later and as an adult did I get the joke meant for the parents.

[nathanknaack]

Like it or not the old game is almost 30 years old. A good deal of gamers are either not born yet or too young to remember the details.

Yeah, I agree with paultakeda here. As long as they don't try to bring back every character from Wasteland, a few of them would make interesting additions to the sequel.

Wasteland newbies will think they're just regular NPCs, but veterans will be delighted to see the familiar old faces.

[Game_Exile]

I'd like to say, again, how much I hate the idea of NPC quests in Wasteland 2. Quests should be about getting to your end game goals, and unless those NPCs of yours are super special and necessary, long and involved NPC quests (i.e. quests whose primary consequence is to recruit/maintain an NPC) will amount to bloat. But if you absolutely need these sorts of NPC quests, then you should also design the game with just a single player character instead of a party of four. "Personal" shit works much better when you are pretending to be a single person instead of an entire party/group.

[Aldereth]

Like it or not the old game is almost 30 years old. A good deal of gamers are either not born yet or too young to remember the details.

Yeah, I agree with paultakeda here. As long as they don't try to bring back every character from Wasteland, a few of them would make interesting additions to the sequel.

Wasteland newbies will think they're just regular NPCs, but veterans will be delighted to see the familiar old faces.

Like I said, I am not against a character or two like Bobby. I think it may do the game harm to build the whole narrative around returning characters like ME2 did with Garrus, Tali, Liara,Wrex, Anderson, Udina..., some playable, some not. I am afraid that some of the "younger" gamer may feel left out.

[Inca]

NPCs with personal stories and quests need not be a part of your team from the beginning. You could get entagled with them trhough a "final goal" of the game plot progression. For example you need to escort a dignitary to another city as a part of the main plot, along the way you bond with them through dialog and at the end you may offer them to join...

[Game_Exile]

along the way you bond with them through dialog and at the end you may offer them to join...

Just having a little bit of dialog doesn't really sound like the sort of "NPC quest" being discussed in this thread, so I like your idea. But I still see a small problem with it. Who is bonding with who? Are all 4 starting player characters always supposed to all be bonding with everyone? Unless you have just a single player character, "personal" relationships shouldn't be featured in the game. It just wouldn't work.

[Woolfe]

along the way you bond with them through dialog and at the end you may offer them to join...

Just having a little bit of dialog doesn't really sound like the sort of "NPC quest" being discussed in this thread, so I like your idea. But I still see a small problem with it. Who is bonding with who? Are all 4 starting player characters always supposed to all be bonding with everyone? Unless you have just a single player character, "personal" relationships shouldn't be featured in the game. It just wouldn't work.

Not necessarily, you coulf potentially have multiple responces from any of your characters. You could then have one of your characters only ever "intimidate" and give violent responces, whilst another is a charmer. That sort of thing.

If they expand the character background and traits they could also inlcude things like a "Sarcastic" trait. And then the answers that pc gives are always potentially "sarcasm" and that colours the effects of the answer (some find it funny, others annoying etc)

[nathanknaack]

But I still see a small problem with it. Who is bonding with who? Are all 4 starting player characters always supposed to all be bonding with everyone? Unless you have just a single player character, "personal" relationships shouldn't be featured in the game. It just wouldn't work.

Instead of having each NPC's mission come across like they're trying to bond with you, it would be more like they're just letting you in on their personal story.

It's like Ace from Wasteland 1. Instead of his mission focusing on tons of dialog between him and your group, it's more about what he's trying to do, how you're going to help out, and all the stuff that happens around that.

[Game_Exile]

Not necessarily, you coulf potentially have multiple responces from any of your characters. You could then have one of your characters only ever "intimidate" and give violent responces, whilst another is a charmer. That sort of thing.

Yeah, but it would obviously be really cumbersome to pretend like you are 4 different personalities when you are playing.

If they expand the character background and traits they could also inlcude things like a "Sarcastic" trait. And then the answers that pc gives are always potentially "sarcasm" and that colours the effects of the answer (some find it funny, others annoying etc)

This idea is interesting, though I have no idea how you could balance this sort of thing. Would it just be for interacting with recruitable NPCs? If so, then I like it (a lot, in fact).

Instead of his mission focusing on tons of dialog between him and your group, it's more about what he's trying to do, how you're going to help out, and all the stuff that happens around that.

Right, and his reasons for joining should be more about your party/faction and its goals, than about "personal relationships". Like I implied before, gaining NPC recruits as a side effect of quests is OK by me. And I favor lots and lots of potentially recruitable NPCs with more superficial "personality" differences, instead of a few extra special NPCs with complicated back stories. More recruitables would make the "traits" described above more worthwhile, too, if not more interesting to use.

P.S. Also, low level caps (or no levels at all) are needed to make picking up NPCs worthwhile throughout the game. Make it so that players can develop/rearrange stats/skills with "training". Maybe have a few PC-only traits that give them an edge in certain areas of the game. This may just be wishful (and awesome) thinking, but it fits everything together nicely.

[Color Blotch]

I'd like to say, again, how much I hate the idea of NPC quests in Wasteland 2. Quests should be about getting to your end game goals, and unless those NPCs of yours are super special and necessary, long and involved NPC quests (i.e. quests whose primary consequence is to recruit/maintain an NPC) will amount to bloat. But if you absolutely need these sorts of NPC quests, then you should also design the game with just a single player character instead of a party of four. "Personal" shit works much better when you are pretending to be a single person instead of an entire party/group.

Totally agree that there should no be NPC quests for the sake of NPC quests. It's fine (or maybe even good) to have recruitable NPCs play important parts in certain quests, maybe even starting some (although it would be preferable to have alternative quest entry points as well). Having NPC quests as a mandatory game mechanic of achieving end success like in ME2 is very bad idea for WL2.

[Inca]

I think there is a seed of consensus developing here.

[glorioustheglory]

I'm in favor of NPC quests. They don't have to be massive like ME2, but why not side-quests to the degree of BG2? I mean, BG2's NPC characterization mostly involved inter-NPC banter, interjections, and like 1 small quest for a number of NPCs. Not every NPC has to have a quest/sub-plot, but having them does add a lot of depth to the characters, some of them even resulting in great moments in the game. It's a really easy and simple way to flesh out an NPC, and provide some clue as to their motivation for risking their lives fighting. Not only that, but it's not even a huge idea. The game already will have a lot of quests, all we'd have now is just that some quests relate to the NPC party members/be initiated by those party members.

[paultakeda]

I'm in favor of NPC quests.

I think we're looking at this from the wrong side. What we should be in favor of are any number of quests where there may be a recruitable NPC from any of them.