U.S. coins as currency

[Archangel]

/facepalm of the day

Not at all, compare;

Coins or bottle caps which have absolutely no use what-so-ever therefore have no intrinsic value

Shell casings which will be in demand for people to reload therefore do have intrinsic value

As much as I'm in favor of coins or bottle caps. I have to agree with this guy.

Still voting for not using bullets. I didn't like Metro 2033's system. Since reloaded bullets don't do less damage than manufactured ones. What kinda bull-crap is that? My friends reload bullets and the only problem they get is the gun will jam if they didn't put enough powder in.

I think the best kind of post-apocalyptic trade system would be, well, trading. But I think it should be based off of how valuable that item is to each person. Which would get rather tedious to code and design. So, coins, caps, something like those two, or a barter system. That's what I want.

EDIT: Plus for currency, you want some common, but not too common. Bottle caps fit that bill perfectly.

How about empty shell casings; at least they are intrinsically valuable...

Empties would be fine.

[Phaederuss]

/facepalm of the day

Not at all, compare;

Coins or bottle caps which have absolutely no use what-so-ever therefore have no intrinsic value

Shell casings which will be in demand for people to reload therefore do have intrinsic value

It's a facepalm because money doesn't need to "intrinsic value" because there is no such thing. There are only varying levels of value that human beings place on different things. It's also a facepalm because the bottlecap has about as much use as the shell casing.

[CaptainPatch]

... money doesn't need to "intrinsic value" because there is no such thing.

Au contrere. Any currency that is in and of itself valuable for what it IS, has intrinsic (inherent) value. Example: A US $20 Gold Eagle when it was issued could be melted down and sold for $20. (Now collector value gets added in.) Currencies drifted from that 1-to-1 value by monarchs failing to resist the urge to issue coins with metal content worth less than face value (debasing). It was one step on the path to fiat currency.

[Shady314]

WL2 should really just have a barter economy with local societies having their own accepted currencies. Without an overarching power structure to honor a currency it's ludicrous to have an item accepted everywhere in the wasteland in exchange for tangible goods. You need a powerful group like the NCR in Fallout 2 for a currency with enough widespread use to have value across a large region. One that people could travel to in order to spend that money for the goods they need back home. But I hope to see that avoided.

Bullets are great unless you find some tribals with no guns that wonder why the hell you think this has value? Or some town/group that survives in the wastes by supplying most of the areas ammo because the town houses a factory that used to produce ammo and employed most of the town and now their descendents. Groups in a desert may value water by the cup while those with a working well or a freshwater lake don't care.

Barter opens up more opportunities for wackiness and individuality in the areas.

[TΛPETRVE]

Who run Bartertown?

[Shady314]

Who run Bartertown?

Well according to New Vegas the answer is YOU.

[Ronin73]

I am curious on what choice Fargo and Co. will go with in terms of currency. The original just had "cash" and that was it. Simple and effective, but as far as I can recall no reason was ever given where the cash actually came from. Do they come up with a story for "cash" in Wasteland 2 or do they abandon that concept and come up with something new?

Keep in mind that casino's and slot machines are still in operation in the Wasteland world, so if continuity is of primary concern a pure barter system is probably out.

[Drool]

There's a couple references to stuff like "$20 gold", which implies a gold standard. I can't only imagine the Rangers would be the ones backing it. Of course, it was probably chosen as a convenience from a creation standpoint. It might get fleshed out further, but I'd be fine with it being left unexplained. Just like I never want to have it explained how 15 pieces a fruit, a plasma coupler, and some Visa cards fit into a broken toaster.

[vadayni4]

WL2 should really just have a barter economy with local societies having their own accepted currencies. Without an overarching power structure to honor a currency it's ludicrous to have an item accepted everywhere in the wasteland in exchange for tangible goods. You need a powerful group like the NCR in Fallout 2 for a currency with enough widespread use to have value across a large region. One that people could travel to in order to spend that money for the goods they need back home. But I hope to see that avoided.

Bullets are great unless you find some tribals with no guns that wonder why the hell you think this has value? Or some town/group that survives in the wastes by supplying most of the areas ammo because the town houses a factory that used to produce ammo and employed most of the town and now their descendents. Groups in a desert may value water by the cup while those with a working well or a freshwater lake don't care.

Barter opens up more opportunities for wackiness and individuality in the areas.

This is the most truthful and realistic idea been presented here +1
The idea of money is workable is when the world is more global, more connected, and there is a group of people like bank owners who is targeting to get reach this way. Otherwise only real things (products) that have a real value can be used in barter system. Fuel, weapons, food, water, equipment, electricity, ammo - is what can have a real value, not just a peace of paper or cap which doesnt have any real useful value.

[Shady314]

I am curious on what choice Fargo and Co. will go with in terms of currency. The original just had "cash" and that was it. Simple and effective, but as far as I can recall no reason was ever given where the cash actually came from. Do they come up with a story for "cash" in Wasteland 2 or do they abandon that concept and come up with something new?

Keep in mind that casino's and slot machines are still in operation in the Wasteland world, so if continuity is of primary concern a pure barter system is probably out.

WL2 is in California. Any differences can be swept under the rug by saying that it's different in Cali.

A good point has been brought up though that the Rangers themselves could play the role of NCR. We could start making our own money and by establishing our influence over the wasteland create a regional currency. I doubt inXile will go that far with it but it is interesting.

[Ronin73]

Good point on the potential of California having a different currency system. However the initial game begins at the original ranger center and perhaps some of the surrounding area as well, so some explanation of "cash" could still be required.

It does create a potentially interesting scenario where the cash/currency the rangers have could actually be completely worthless when they head to California.

[Shady314]

Good point on the potential of California having a different currency system. However the initial game begins at the original ranger center and perhaps some of the surrounding area as well, so some explanation of "cash" could still be required.

It does create a potentially interesting scenario where the cash/currency the rangers have could actually be completely worthless when they head to California.

1) Are we certain the game begins there? I thought that would be more like the intro movie. I expect the actual game to begin with you dropped into California. I suppose it could be a tutorial though. Patrolling the wastes. Find the dying man. Report back to HQ. Get helicoptered to Cali.
2) That would be hilarious.

[Ronin73]

If you watch the Q&A video update on Kickstarter (around about the 7:40 mark) Fargo definitely says something like at some point in the game a survivor crawls out of the desert mentioning California and The Guardians. (edit: Yep Fargo talks about meeting some of the original characters from Wasteland so it looks like we definitely get the opportunity to explore some of the old area)

I guess it's open to interpretation, but I got the impression that it wasn't going to happen at the start of the game. (I could be totally wrong of course) Also the vibe I get from some of Fargo's tweets and a blog from Liz Danforth, I have a gut feeling that the rangers are going to visit Highpool again at the very least. Somehow I think Bobby has survived and has something in store for those dog murdering rangers

[Nemo]

This is the most truthful and realistic idea been presented here +1
The idea of money is workable is when the world is more global, more connected, and there is a group of people like bank owners who is targeting to get reach this way. Otherwise only real things (products) that have a real value can be used in barter system.

Simply false. History provides many many counter-examples, e.g.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_money

Human societies discover the need for currency very early. If there are merchants, there will be money.

Now, how far that currency is accepted depends primarily on how far merchants travel, thanks to arbitrage. If you consider certain coins worthless, but some tribe over the hill values it, then I would be very happy to exchange a few beans for your "worthless" tokens and walk over the hill. Eventual result: The value of those coins in your tribe increases.

This does assume the tribe over the hill is willing to trade with me at all and not, say, kill me on sight. But in general, no item (including currency) can have its value differ over a short amount of space and a long amount of time, because somebody will notice and profit until the disparity is eliminated.

[Gizmo]

A penny post-apocalypse might buy a dollar's worth of today's goods, say. So shops would tend to quote prices in cents rather than dollars. (Welcome to 1900.)

I do not think so... In a post-apocalypse, I think anyone would trade a base metal coin for food and supplies ~to anyone senseless enough to trade base metal for food and supplies; I think they would trade steamer trunk full of dollar coins for a knapsack full of canned goods and a .45 pistol with rounds. (I don't think that the pre-war value of the coins would enter their thoughts.)

[Nemo]

I do not think so... In a post-apocalypse, I think anyone would trade a base metal coin for food and supplies ~to anyone senseless enough to trade base metal for food and supplies; I think they would trade steamer trunk full of dollar coins for a knapsack full of canned goods and a .45 pistol with rounds.

At the risk of repeating myself, history suggests you are wrong. Human societies -- including primitive societies -- use whatever is available (but not too available) as money. At various times and places, beads, shells, and salt have served the purpose.

Currency needs to be durable, portable, easy to recognize (i.e. difficult to forge), and neither too common nor too rare. That's it. If primitive societies can use shells, it is at least plausible that a post-apocalyptic society would use existing coins.

(I don't think that the pre-war value of the coins would enter their thoughts.)

Um, yes, that was kind of the whole point of my post.

[Vryheid]

I do not think so... In a post-apocalypse, I think anyone would trade a base metal coin for food and supplies ~to anyone senseless enough to trade base metal for food and supplies; I think they would trade steamer trunk full of dollar coins for a knapsack full of canned goods and a .45 pistol with rounds.

At the risk of repeating myself, history suggests you are wrong. Human societies -- including primitive societies -- use whatever is available (but not too available) as money. At various times and places, beads, shells, and salt have served the purpose.

Currency needs to be durable, portable, easy to recognize (i.e. difficult to forge), and neither too common nor too rare. That's it. If primitive societies can use shells, it is at least plausible that a post-apocalyptic society would use existing coins.

Pretty much. This was the rationale behind the use of bottlecaps in Fallout, but it was a pretty bad one because nobody in their right mind is going to be dragging around a 200 pound sack of thousands of bottlecaps everywhere they go. At least with coins there at least is a way to convert between exponential levels of currency. If this type of currency is used I hope that some higher value coins than we have now (like some $10 or even $50 gold coins) were introduced in very small quantities prior to the war, as the sheer mass off coins currently available in the US makes me doubt that they would carry much value even after the bombs drop.

[cah]

Au contrere. Any currency that is in and of itself valuable for what it IS, has intrinsic (inherent) value. Example: A US $20 Gold Eagle when it was issued could be melted down and sold for $20.

Care to explain what is the intrinsic value of gold?
Hint: any currency is only worth what the society agrees on.

nobody in their right mind is going to be dragging around a 200 pound sack of thousands of bottlecaps everywhere they go. At least with coins there at least is a way to convert between exponential levels of currency.

That's easy. Different brands = different denominations.

[Gizmo]

Pretty much. This was the rationale behind the use of bottlecaps in Fallout, but it was a pretty bad one because nobody in their right mind is going to be dragging around a 200 pound sack of thousands of bottlecaps everywhere they go.

Actually, the rational was probably more about rations... Bottlecaps were implied to be worth 1 liter of water to the water merchants in the Hub; Bottlecaps were also known as Hub-Bucks.

Currency only works if there is a settlement somewhere to trade it (even if that settlement is just stone age village)... you cannot (usually) eat money; if there is no settlement... money is useless except to collectors. If some hermit setup shop and made it known that he would reliably trade MRE's for 'crucifix fish-heads' (and reliably did) ~then the fishheads could effectively become a local currency (simply because people could eat if they found, worked for, or stole some of them to trade with the hermit, and others might trade goods and services for them because they could in turn be traded for MRE's). No one else would have to agree to it as being acceptable money, but they probably all would eventually ~so long as the guy kept honoring the deal. And the heads would become worthless the minute he stopped.

**(and of course it is beside the point that they could maybe eat the fish and trade the heads... I could have as easily said bullet shell casings or metric hex nuts, or rechargeable batteries, or anything else instead of the fishhead ~that's not the point.)


What I would want to see in Wasteland 2; was already in Fallout ~Barter. Fallout's bottlecaps were to even up trades. Trading a flare for a knife was not enough, trading 2 flares for the knife was too much... Trading one flare a a few bottle caps squared the deal to both parties.

[Sxerks]

Again, there is already a precedence for gold from the Wasteland 1 Fiction

WL1 manual : ~A book for $20 gold

On this website you can see the size and value of gold coins, the smallest "dime size" is $5 and the largest "half-dollar size" is $50. So it's not really a problem.

Gold has intrinsic value for electronics, so there is value behind it.

Enough with the bottlecap references, this is not Fallout.