Top Down vs Isometric View [poll added]

[looptop]

Some confirmation here would be nice, but I doubt we have much choice in this anyway. Even if this is a game for the fans of the old games it should still be made for this millennia. We have all come to expect more in certain aspect of games, even if we have had to settle for less in others.

[Myrkrel]

The more I think about it I'm pretty sure the "top-down" Brian Fargo is referring to is actually isometric / axonometric in the sense that it is being discussed here.

There are some hints to this in the recent RPS interview:

RPS: Is there any sense that you’ve got to make up for lost time because there wasn’t a solid continuum of isometric turn based stuff being made, so there’s like ten years of development that didn’t happen, and now you’ve almost got to compensate for the work that wasn’t done to make sure you make a suitably modern game?

Brian Fargo: I don’t think we want to go too far forward from what was last done, because I want people who played those RPGs in the 90s to be able to step seamlessly into this game and get it. ...

and:

Brian Fargo: I’m trying to make this game to appeal to people who like the old school roleplaying games from the 90s, not just Wasteland, so it goes beyond that, it’s Wasteland, it’s Fallout, it’s Baldur’s Gate, it’s Icewind Dale, it’s that whole genre of product. Having just party based games, good old party based games with tactical combat, I love that stuff, love that stuff. Icewind Dale was a very simple game but I had such fun with that.

He keeps mentioning the 90's which was the golden age of the isometric RPG - and the games he mentions (aside from Wasteland itself) are all in the isometric / axonometric style.

And this makes good sense for a tactical game - which is something he also mentions a lot.

My guess is it will be a real-time 3D engine, not purely 2D renders in the 90's method. It could be a hybrid 2D / 3D too I suppose.

I agree that it would be cool to get confirmation of what they are thinking of with "top-down" because it would save a lot of time on speculation!

[Kide]

I would definitly prefer the isometric precpective. Like in fallout series or baldurs gate. The other option might work as well, but if I have a choise I really have missed the old school isometric games, so that would be the one I would want.

[blacklightofday]

Maybe the isometric view would be best for this, since it's going to be "tactical" combat.

[undecaf]

I'm more inclined towards ISO view. To me, it just gives a better perspective of the environment.

[Tharkon]

TopDown can be done sexy but alot of detail is lost.
The old games had the charm of simple graphics and alot of content. Remember the first MMORPGs, they weren't called MMORPGS but GMUD's: Graphical Multi User Dungeons.

The graphics just added to the core MUD which was text and story.


Today is different and today a picture speaks more than a thousand words.
I believe that you can do alot more with it.

Further more Inxile has said that each character will be controllable and movable around the map for better tactical combat.
If you want a truly complex tactical combat with various forms of cover or even a destructible environment you would need isometric. It all depends how far you want to go.

With a top-down perspective you would need ALOT of text, charm and atmosphere through music and setting.
That ain't easy neither...even if it sounds/looks easier.


(Battle of Wesnoth does the top-down perspective quite good in terms of design but it is far easier for that sort of game to: http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&clien ... 4gTkn4zTDg)

[Citronvand]

Someone just asked Brian about Top-down on his twitter:

do you have some sketches or a more detailed description to show how the game will look like? "top down" is a bit vague

Brian:we will have some concepts soon that we will start to solicit feedback from the fans on.

[Guurt]

Isometric, please.

Top Down is okay and will work, but I think Isometric does look a little nicer.

As long as it isn't first person I will be happy.

[Citronvand]

Brian just made a new tweet about this:

We are leaning towards isometric but we want to show some screens in our forum for fan feedback. You guys are my new boss after all.

I'm looking forward to seeing those screens

[Myrkrel]

Brian just made a new tweet about this:

We are leaning towards isometric but we want to show some screens in our forum for fan feedback. You guys are my new boss after all.

I'm looking forward to seeing those screens

Nice! Looking forward to it.

[TK6530]

I would say that the main point here would be not to make it a shooter. Neither a frist nor third person shooter. But as long as the game mechanics are left intact, I don't see why you couldn't play with the camera angles in a 3d eviroment all you want.

That was the whole deal about people being dissapointed with Fallout 3, the fact that it was a shoooter, that it eliminated all the mechanics, so it changed the game completely beyond redemption. I am a 90's turn based RPG player and I can tell you I really felt betrayed. What I wished for was actually something more like the Van Buren project, that it was in fact 3d but it kept all the 90's RPG mechanics.

One example I would give is what is being done with X-Com. First someone announced a sequel to UFO, and when they revealed it was going to be a shooter a lot of people screamed "BETRAYAL!!!" And rightfully so. The fact that they announced that it was going to be more like a Mass Effect team based didn't helped either. But what this guys are doing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPLTPj8SUhU I think is a step into the right direction, where they kept the mechanics and use modern to date 3d technology.

[derailedition]

I don't think I want it to be completely top down. but more like a satellite's view or something. with the weird fixed perspective, maybe that would be good. hehe. like ultima. definitely something that allows for a more interesting graphical map view than completely top down.

I definitely want wasteland2 to be completely reliant on the text window for environmental details and descriptions. and have a map screen camera much further zoomed out than fallout or the infinity engine games, so that even with a modern art style and much more detailed graphics and higher resolution than we had back in the day, on both wasteland1 and the fallouts, the details in the graphical view would be more naturally limited by the bigger scope of the map overview.

something like this, http://www.awesomestories.com/images/us ... 0f0785.jpg but obviously a bit closer to the ground

[enderandrew]

Isometric doesn't mean 3/4 view. It means a singular, fixed view, which is not perfect for everything.

I'd like a free camera when exploring, and the ability to perhaps switch to some default tactical fixed camera views in combat.

Here is an older game in a 3D engine that was meant to be a spiritual successor to Fallout. It had a third-person view for individual squad members, but from what I read, you could also zoom out to a tactical squad-view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdDW87A2JAc

[TK6530]

Yes, I played last days of gaia. I wouldn't mind that kind of view. What I would like the most is a "tactical" view. The exact angle of the camera is not something I really care much about as long as you still have that tactical view going on. Altho I'm more inclined towards something like what Firaxis has done with X-Com, Last days of Gaia has it's years, and uses the engine of games that are even older, not necesarely the best engine either.

As for particular details like camera angles. If you want a especific scale, then have a zoom feature. You don't like the angle? Have options to change it. Options, options, options.

[enderandrew]

Yes, I played last days of gaia. I wouldn't mind that kind of view. What I would like the most is a "tactical" view. The exact angle of the camera is not something I really care much about as long as you still have that tactical view going on. Altho I'm more inclined towards something like what Firaxis has done with X-Com, Last days of Gaia has it's years, and uses the engine of games that are even older, not necesarely the best engine either.

As for particular details like camera angles. If you want a especific scale, then have a zoom feature. You don't like the angle? Have options to change it. Options, options, options.

Sadly, I don't think it was ever translated to English. I really wanted to play it and never got the chance.

[Boo]

I'd be fine with top down, if it's down in a way like Dungeons of Dredmor. Most things in that were "tilted" at an angle, including characters.

You can still see most everything instead of just rooftops and heads this way.

[Hiver]

Best option would be something generally isometric but with the ability to zoom in and out up to a reasonable point. The same for spinning or panning/tilting the camera around. A little bit is good - too much isnt.

Seems the team is also closer to some kind of isometric view.
Devil will be in the details, as always but i would prefer some small level of free movement to it.
Although that isnt any kind of deal breaker.

Seeing how original wasnt fully top down anyway its all good so far.

[Citronvand]

Best option would be something generally isometric but with the ability to zoom in and out up to a reasonable point. The same for spinning or panning/tilting the camera around. A little bit is good - too much isnt.

Seems the team is also closer to some kind of isometric view.
Devil will be in the details, as always but i would prefer some small level of free movement to it.
Although that isnt any kind of deal breaker.

Seeing how original wasnt fully top down anyway its all good so far.

As long as you are not required to rotate/zoom the camera to see everything important I'm ok with it. Otherwise I think it would become tedious to constantly rotating the camera so you're sure you're not missing anything.

[TheRabbitsGeorge]

Just throwing another hat into the ring for an isometric view, on the grounds that I just like it more than straight top-down.

Will be happy with either though.

[JanetRGilbert]

I vote isometric. Top-down looks a little too cutesy for me, and isometric just reminds me of those old RPGs I love.