Do not listen to fans too much

[paultakeda]

There is difference between "purist" and "in spirit" to me.

With your definitions I guess I am "in spirit". Technology allows you to tell a story better, lets you take advantage of an even deeper core mechanic. More variables, more saving throws and complex ones that use a variety of modifiers based on character attribute/skill set, items in inventory and context. T

he classic RPG system never got to modernize much since the last century; what would a 21st century classic style RPG system be able to do? This is what is really exciting about Wasteland 2. If it's a huge sales success we could see this little niche become profitable. What if inXile licensed out Wl-MSPE v2 to smaller devs to write their own games using the system, adapt it for sci-fi and fantasy?

Ah, but there would be such joy in my house.

The picture will become a bit clearer once the engine is decided and the vision document is released.

It will also be interesting to see the forum reaction when that happens.

The engine has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the game is Wasteland. I remain completely surprised that that thread on 2D versus 3D is the most popular topic; it's not seeing the forest for the trees.

My reaction to engine choice will be: I just don't care.

[krellen]

I remain completely surprised that that thread on 2D versus 3D is the most popular topic; it's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Most of the last half of that thread is like four people trolling each other and not actually saying anything.

[ffordesoon]

I remain completely surprised that that thread on 2D versus 3D is the most popular topic; it's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Most of the last half of that thread is like four people trolling each other and not actually saying anything.

Yeah, it's... kind of astonishing.

[paultakeda]

I remain completely surprised that that thread on 2D versus 3D is the most popular topic; it's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Most of the last half of that thread is like four people trolling each other and not actually saying anything.

Yeah, it's... kind of astonishing.

I'm starting to feel the same way about the currency threads.

No, really, why do you need to know what the dollar represents?

[ToasterRepairman]

I know im late to the game on this topic but please, do not listen to the OP.

EA doesnt listen to fans

Modern game companies dont listen to fans.

You were funded by fans.

You should listen to them as much as possible.

Fallout 1 and 2 both listened to fans.

I know for a fact that 2 of the perks on fallout 2 were fan suggestions.

It makes the game personal. People become hyper loyal to a game that interacts with them and listens. Not who ignores and basically steals their money

[Mandemon]

And you missed the point of OP.

it's not "Don't listen to fans", it's "Don't listen fans too much to point where original vision is buried under fan suggestions"

[SagaDC]

It's not "Don't listen to fans", it's "Don't listen fans too much to point where original vision is buried under fan suggestions"

I like to think that Fargo and the boys are smart enough to pick and choose what they think are good suggestions. Honestly, they probably already have an outline that they're working off of, with minor changes that might be made based on the perceived community consensus.

[Bound4Earth]

Hey there-
I have a very general suggestion;
since I never played the previous game I won't pretend I know what exactly should or shouldn't be in the sequel, BUT-

Please, make sure to not go overboard with fan's suggestions. It may be silly saying this to experienced industry veterans, but I've seen a couple of times where an over-reliance on fans for ideas just ruined the entire game project.

What I'm meaning to say it, while acknowledging the advice from the fans, try and keep your own distinct flavor for the game- I'm sure it will be for the best.

I think you misunderstand what listening to fans means in any situation. You can't do everything people suggest, but you can take the ideas that have sound reasoning backing them and implement those ideas. In other words, it's more like taking a poll from the fans, except the concepts or idea has to fit the model of the game to be used.

[nathanknaack]

After a few weeks bringing up new ideas and trying to have solid discussions on them, I felt compelled to add my thoughts to this thread. I'll take the original poster one step further:

inXile developers, do not listen to fans at all. You have our money and we trust you. Go make Wasteland 2 and don't even talk to any fans until it's done.

That is all.

[Lazy Nomad]

After a few weeks bringing up new ideas and trying to have solid discussions on them, I felt compelled to add my thoughts to this thread. I'll take the original poster one step further:

inXile developers, do not listen to fans at all. You have our money and we trust you. Go make Wasteland 2 and don't even talk to any fans until it's done.

That is all.

Honestly, I can live with that.

[Color Blotch]

Well, I guess in face of recent EA developments this thread gains the whole new flavor.

[Mandemon]

Whole "EA development" is nothing but people misunderstanding the deal and demanding Inxile to shoot itself in the foot just to spite EA.

[Color Blotch]

Whole "EA development" is nothing but people misunderstanding the deal and demanding Inxile to shoot itself in the foot just to spite EA.

Well, yeah. That's why if you value your feet, don't listen to fans too much.

[Mandemon]

Whole "EA development" is nothing but people misunderstanding the deal and demanding Inxile to shoot itself in the foot just to spite EA.

Well, yeah. That's why if you value your feet, don't listen to fans too much.

Oh, you agree with me. Tough you were with on the other side.

Well, this is akward...

[rakenan]

It's not "Don't listen to fans", it's "Don't listen fans too much to point where original vision is buried under fan suggestions"

I like to think that Fargo and the boys are smart enough to pick and choose what they think are good suggestions. Honestly, they probably already have an outline that they're working off of, with minor changes that might be made based on the perceived community consensus.

I've liked to think that about a number of game developers who have since disappointed me. Nobody is perfect. A fan funded game is likely to inherently have the devs feeling a bit more obligated to engage with the fan base than one with a big corporation providing the seed money - and InXile seems like a company that already engages with its fans pretty well. I think it's worth the electrons to remind him that as much as he loves his fan base, they're his fans because his vision makes great games, not because he follows or ever has followed their suggestions.

[philzor]

I know im late to the game on this topic but please, do not listen to the OP.

EA doesnt listen to fans

Modern game companies dont listen to fans.

I'm not sure what major publishers (even those that turned down Wasteland 2) not listening to fans has to do with the Wasteland 2 team, as they are distinctly different entities operating on different principles.

You were funded by fans.

You should listen to them as much as possible.

I funded this project on the notion that inXile would be making the game--not the fans. As a fan, please don't listen to us too much. Seriously, the "fans" are the lowest common denominator. Can you imagine how poorly the entertainment industry as a whole would do if all they did was listen to rotten ideas of hoi polloi?

Your logic is not sound at all, fans such as the OP and myself are very proof of the contradiction in your argument. Fans want other fans to not be listened to. Who do you listen to then? As a publisher, you listen to the employed professionals on the team, that's who.

Fallout 1 and 2 both listened to fans.

I know for a fact that 2 of the perks on fallout 2 were fan suggestions.

You know for a fact? Care to state your sources?

It makes the game personal. People become hyper loyal to a game that interacts with them and listens. Not who ignores and basically steals their money

I'm not saying fully ignore the fans, but don't be afraid to tell fans their ideas suck, because honestly, a lot of their ideas suck. They are mostly armchair game designers with no proof of concept or actual game development under their belt. Go with experience. Go with your gut. Don't go with the fans for crying out loud. Remember "fan" is short for "fanatic"--I'm guessing its safe to say anyone worth their weight on the development side of things are inherently fanatical about the project. Good enough for me.

[Hiver]

Man... if you want to call yourself a lowest common denominator be my guest.
But dont put that label on everyone else. We are not you.
Just stick it where the sun doesnt shin and then jump on it. mkay?

Im really sick of you cowards projecting your fears in this thread onto everyone and everything, including inXile.

There is no extreme choice between two extremes here.
There is NO listening or NOT listening choice at all!

There is NO DESIGN BY COMMITTEE OR DESIGN WITHOUT ANY INPUT FROM FANS AT ALL CHOICE!

You are talking to grown up people here and in inxile who have been in the business for several decades.

They are more than capable of taking input, comments and suggestions and deciding what fits or not for themselves.
Nobody even expects they will just try to force in every thing anyone says.

And if you look around they are not that communicative with the audience on the forums either.
Brian Fargo himself is an old school producer not some new kind of game design hippie who will try to please everyone.

And it bloody shows all the time already!


STOP BEING SO SCARRED!

:points all Gatling guns and plasma railing cannon at everyone:



All of this around here is - is nothing more than a kind of open pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre ... gama stage.
And if there are bad suggestions and ideas... its only normal. You cant get to good stuff without going through bad.

[Drool]

There is no extreme choice between two extremes here.

Probably why the title says "too much".

People are, understandably, concerned about some of the highly vocal minority, agitating for things they don't want. Like the people wanting it to be a single-PC game.

Or, less controversial, the strong divide between people wants lots of survival elements and people wanting minimal (or no) survival elements. It doesn't have to be "design by committee" for inXile to listen to points that various people find highly objectionable.

[Ronin73]

InXile seem to be listening to fans as much as they need to so far. Topics are posted when they are looking for input (the mission ideas thread looks like a great idea to me) and supposedly someone associated with Inxile apparently looks through every thread for ideas and suggestions.

What more could one want? I don't really need to know which ideas they like I'd rather be surprised when the game comes out

[Hiver]

That may seem a bit too harsh response from me to some.
But reading such posts full of mentality that i argue against is extremely insulting for me.

Even if those are written, or try to be, in thinly veiled "less harsh" words it feels like someone is slapping my face with every word, while being smug about it. i can and do understand that people are "afraid" it will all turn bad, and that people worry it will turn bad - but overblowing it into ludicrous statements and inventing things which are factually not correct is way over the line.