Setting up a ranger base

[Hertzila]

IMO the way Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker handles its base expansion and control could work well here. Essentially, the base will expand automatically from a abandoned oil drilling platform into a big 'minination' as you get/recruit more and more people, at one point also depending on which jobs you prioritize. Say, you tend to recruit a lot of people skilled in R&D and consequently put a lot of people into that department. After you get it to a sufficiently high level (enough skilled people) it will automatically start a 'project' to expand that particular area of the base.

Something similar could work for Wasteland 2. As you get more and more people/towns/factions to join or ally with the Rangers, it would automatically expand, perhaps reflecting a bit how you've gained the resources/manpower to build things (different towns and such would produce variations in looks or stats). Also, if you'd assign enough (skilled) people to certain jobs and such, it would trigger construction or expansion to reflect that they require more space or equipment to keep working efficiently. This way the player would still have a definite role in expanding the base while not having to play a mini strategy game.

[nathanknaack]

And this.

Yeah, I mentioned this exact same thing (i.e. new player characters/recruits you can get midgame) in the stickied Death Penalty and Saved games thread. It would be a mechanic that helps make difficult-to-detect instant player charcater deaths more acceptable in an "iron man" save game system... provided the game was balanced correctly of course.

As for random generation of these characters' attributes. I think most of the attributes should be decided through something like a "training" mechanic, i.e., you get to choose most of their attributes. Maybe one or a few unimportant things can be random (like gender, skin/hair color, etc.).

Specifically in relation to setting up a new ranger center, these procedural NPCs would keep that fresh and interesting as well. If the new ranger center's stats (how fast it grows, how good its defense is, how well it heals and rearms you when you stop there, etc) were based on what kind of NPCs you found to send there?

Maybe in your travels you come across a great doctor and you have to choose: Do I want this guy on my team, keeping me healthy between fights, or back at the new ranger center I'm building, watching over the rest of my recruits? Maybe your deciding factor is the doctor's other skills; if he's a great surgeon but he sucks with guns or has a crappy constitution, maybe you send him home to "work the desk job."

[MinscAndBoo]

I like this idea a lot!

I always thought, adding another layer of gameplay to fallout would have been something like growing a town, by establishing a house, then paying off merchents to man the house and convert it into a trader's hut, then go on quests with the trader caravans to open up trade routes, which after a couple of quests becomes a permanent route, all of these actions are too increase your 'Town Resources' which is a pool of money and/or resources separate to your own personal cash.

As the town expands the landscape changes uniquely, depending on your choices of buildings, their location, their faction and the people you hire to run, trade, and protect it. Over time it develops a name and becomes a topic of conversation in in already established towns and major NPC's you meet become interested, some of benefit and some detrimental, and you would have the choice of selling it off, starting again, or fighting to keep it alive, or partner with a heavywieght, and that would give you benefits only available in that partnership, like unique weaponry, appraising, unique quests, etc.

As far as shaping the town, the player can earn respect, money, favours, which unlock higher tiers of respect money and favors which lead to access to major events, like the choice to Take over another town or take on a big enemy with the help of favors, bribes and respect.

The Aesthetics of the town would change depending on:

• who you have hired (retired mercenary, new mercenary, robot, hookers, desert rangers etc - all with different respect for you, the more respect you have, the the higher tier 'help' you can hire.
• who you have fired ( random events keep it interesting: a shooting perhaps, or a man in the stocks, or a man hanged, or a man who just left because he didn't like the way things ran here, and so burned down his house, or shot someone who is making you lots of money).
• What buildings you choose per allotment (10 allotments per town) (random selection of 10 out of 50)
• What research you do in protection (moats, gates, sandbags, nightwatchman, robot guard-dogs, snipers, turrets, barbed wire fences)
• What research you do in Food (crops, underground mushrooms, beef herding, water purification, alcoholic stills)
• What research you do in Arms (choice of 4-5 weapons, each with a specific role and each with 3 tiers to upgrade for your militia),
• Conflict Resolution (using your speech skill, women feel safe around the town and have more babies which will help keep the town filled with people.)
• Human Resources [Reconnaissance, Research, Farming, Communications, Protection] (choose between these 5 priority's from your pool of townspeople)
• Allocate more people in Reconnaissance means that it takes less time for a new area outside the town to be discovered, or further out if close proximity has already been searched.
• Allocate more people in Research means speedier results when increasing tiers in protection, arms, food/water, and communication technology.
• Allocate more people in Farming means that it increases the amount of food/water gathered per hour for the towns consumption.
• Allocate more people in Communications and that will increase the distance you can travel from the town without losing radio contact. This also doubles for emergency radio signals. The town can pick them up if there are enough people scanning the airwaves day and night

[Woolfe]

Specifically in relation to setting up a new ranger center, these procedural NPCs would keep that fresh and interesting as well. If the new ranger center's stats (how fast it grows, how good its defense is, how well it heals and rearms you when you stop there, etc) were based on what kind of NPCs you found to send there?

Maybe in your travels you come across a great doctor and you have to choose: Do I want this guy on my team, keeping me healthy between fights, or back at the new ranger center I'm building, watching over the rest of my recruits? Maybe your deciding factor is the doctor's other skills; if he's a great surgeon but he sucks with guns or has a crappy constitution, maybe you send him home to "work the desk job."

Yeah thats my opinion too.

You find people who are useful and deliver them to Ranger base to assist. The base would grow by itself slowly anyway, but as you find extra people, it grows faster and becomes more useful to you.

[Zeronet]

Nothing to do with wasteland 2, but i thought it was cool enough and topic enough to share.

[MinscAndBoo]

That is a fantastic concept piece.

But what always bothered me with elaborate shanty towns is, where are all the construction vehicles and tools used to make the town. There's no way you could build symmetrical towering structures out of scrap metal without some kind of scaffolding, cranes, bulldozing equipment, rivet guns and power, or at least a pulley and tackle! Even the Egyptians left evidence of building material, and/or building tools.

And would a town be perfectly balanced artistically? I think it would be a mess architecturally, unless all the architects survived the war/bombs/plague.

*strokes beard*

[Game_Exile]

Specifically in relation to setting up a new ranger center, these procedural NPCs would keep that fresh and interesting as well. If the new ranger center's stats (how fast it grows, how good its defense is, how well it heals and rearms you when you stop there, etc) were based on what kind of NPCs you found to send there?

Maybe in your travels you come across a great doctor and you have to choose: Do I want this guy on my team, keeping me healthy between fights, or back at the new ranger center I'm building, watching over the rest of my recruits? Maybe your deciding factor is the doctor's other skills; if he's a great surgeon but he sucks with guns or has a crappy constitution, maybe you send him home to "work the desk job."

More important than keeping things "fresh and interesting" is making things necessary. The Doctor example you gave is a good one. If these things are in the game, they need to be strategic, i.e. predictable, choices, not frivolous and random ones.

[nathanknaack]

Specifically in relation to setting up a new ranger center, these procedural NPCs would keep that fresh and interesting as well. If the new ranger center's stats (how fast it grows, how good its defense is, how well it heals and rearms you when you stop there, etc) were based on what kind of NPCs you found to send there?

Maybe in your travels you come across a great doctor and you have to choose: Do I want this guy on my team, keeping me healthy between fights, or back at the new ranger center I'm building, watching over the rest of my recruits? Maybe your deciding factor is the doctor's other skills; if he's a great surgeon but he sucks with guns or has a crappy constitution, maybe you send him home to "work the desk job."

More important than keeping things "fresh and interesting" is making things necessary. The Doctor example you gave is a good one. If these things are in the game, they need to be strategic, i.e. predictable, choices, not frivolous and random ones.

Strategic choices with random tools. That's what it would be like to build your new ranger center with procedural NPCs.

You know what else it's exactly like? Tetris. You don't know what kind of pieces you're going to get, but you have to make lines of them one way or another! Maybe you find that perfect piece (a good doctor) and maybe you keep getting that z-shaped one over and over again (NPCs with odd skill sets or poor attributes).

I think this would add a great new activity to the game. Sure, your main goal is to follow the story, overcome the major challenges, and explore the world, but you'd always have this new ranger center project on the back-burner. In effect, these procedural NPCs become living pieces of loot for you to find.

[nathanknaack]

Nothing to do with wasteland 2, but i thought it was cool enough and topic enough to share.

That is a great image, and the user interface for the new ranger center in Wasteland 2 doesn't need to be much more complicated than this.

If you haven't yet, you should check out the iPhone app "Zombies, Run!" Most of it is just a cute little audio program that helps you pace yourself while jogging, but they have a really cool system where you collect hypothetical stuff while you're running (med kits, ammo, food, etc) and when you're done running, you can spend these things to upgrade your zombie apocalypse survival base.

It's a 2D image of a settlement just like the one in the photo above. You can upgrade your radio tower, medical tent, defensive wall, armory, etc. It's pretty cool.

[Game_Exile]

Sure, your main goal is to follow the story, overcome the major challenges, and explore the world, but you'd always have this new ranger center project on the back-burner. In effect, these procedural NPCs become living pieces of loot for you to find.

You don't quite understand what I'm saying. I think working on the ranger base should be part of the "major challenges". The ranger base should be a vital resource for you to overcome major obstacles to getting the "good ending" in the game. Otherwise, why bother with it?

[nathanknaack]

Sure, your main goal is to follow the story, overcome the major challenges, and explore the world, but you'd always have this new ranger center project on the back-burner. In effect, these procedural NPCs become living pieces of loot for you to find.

You don't quite understand what I'm saying. I think working on the ranger base should be part of the "major challenges". The ranger base should be a vital resource for you to overcome major obstacles to getting the "good ending" in the game. Otherwise, why bother with it?

You could go one of two routes here:

A) The new ranger center (NRC) is a huge part of the game. Hell, maybe it's the entire point of the game. What if you start out with a camp and you only win the game by turning it into the dominant power in the area? Maybe the final battle (against whoever the bad guy is, a bandit king, a giant robot, Obamacare, whatever the boogeyman is in Wasteland 2) takes place at the NRC. Imagine how cool it would be if half of your chances of winning were based on your party's skills and gear, but also half on how well you've built up the NRC?

B) The NRC is a side project that gives you some special benefits based on how well you build and maintain it. What if you could go back there whenever you want and get fully healed and filled up on ammo? You put in the effort to upgrade the radio tower, so now you can radio back from farther away. Build up the infirmary for better healing. Ooh, you didn't put any resources into defenses, so the next time you stop by, the NRC is under attack by raiders!

Of course, you could add them together, too. The NRC is the entire point of the game, but it also gives you benefits along the way. That's the route I'd go.

[Game_Exile]

You could go one of two routes here:

A) The new ranger center (NRC) is a huge part of the game. Hell, maybe it's the entire point of the game. What if you start out with a camp and you only win the game by turning it into the dominant power in the area? Maybe the final battle (against whoever the bad guy is, a bandit king, a giant robot, Obamacare, whatever the boogeyman is in Wasteland 2) takes place at the NRC. Imagine how cool it would be if half of your chances of winning were based on your party's skills and gear, but also half on how well you've built up the NRC?

B) The NRC is a side project that gives you some special benefits based on how well you build and maintain it. What if you could go back there whenever you want and get fully healed and filled up on ammo? You put in the effort to upgrade the radio tower, so now you can radio back from farther away. Build up the infirmary for better healing. Ooh, you didn't put any resources into defenses, so the next time you stop by, the NRC is under attack by raiders!

Of course, you could add them together, too. The NRC is the entire point of the game, but it also gives you benefits along the way. That's the route I'd go.

The NRC doesn't have to be the entire point of the game, but it should be a vital/mandatory part if they are going to include it. Which isn't saying that I don't love option A), because I fucking love it. And it would go great with an epic game system/story idea, which I will be making a thread about soon.

[WolfStark]

That is a fantastic concept piece.

But what always bothered me with elaborate shanty towns is, where are all the construction vehicles and tools used to make the town. There's no way you could build symmetrical towering structures out of scrap metal without some kind of scaffolding, cranes, bulldozing equipment, rivet guns and power, or at least a pulley and tackle! Even the Egyptians left evidence of building material, and/or building tools.

And would a town be perfectly balanced artistically? I think it would be a mess architecturally, unless all the architects survived the war/bombs/plague.

*strokes beard*

To your question: They vanished. Okay that was a joke but it's just a goof (bloob? How you call this?), not more. Of course you need more than a hammer, if you want to build something which doesn't look like a favela. Would be great to see a bulldozer/crane something like that in Wasteland 2. But I don't this it would be a mess architecturally. If I want to build something and as long as I am not part of a incestious family in the wasteland who are looking for victims that's the highest priority, I make sure I have or will have people who know about materials, tools and how to make something of all of it. Either the rangers have the knowledge themself or they hire people, everything else would be really stupid.

@Topic
The idea of building a base is great. I just hope it won't end up in pure points. Really don't want to see a Mass Effect Syndrome here.

[nathanknaack]

The idea of building a base is great. I just hope it won't end up in pure points.

I think it could easily be based on assets instead of points.

You don't grind up "doctor" points until you reach 1,000, which is the magic number where your settlement gets a doctor. Instead, you just search the wasteland for a doctor and send him to the new ranger center. If his skills are good, your settlement thrives. If not, your settlement simply lacks that benefit.

Want to be able to radio back for promotions instead of having to walk all the way back? Build the radio tower. Simple.

[Drool]

No thank you.

I want the base to be largely self sufficient. It's not a resource management game any more than it's a survival game. Doing quests to get people willing to help? Sure. Doing quests to find some random thing the base needs? Okay. Having what I can and can't do be determined by how many upgrades I've applied to my base? Hell no.

[MinscAndBoo]

The idea of building a base is great. I just hope it won't end up in pure points.

I think it could easily be based on assets instead of points.

You don't grind up "doctor" points until you reach 1,000, which is the magic number where your settlement gets a doctor. Instead, you just search the wasteland for a doctor and send him to the new ranger center. If his skills are good, your settlement thrives. If not, your settlement simply lacks that benefit.

Want to be able to radio back for promotions instead of having to walk all the way back? Build the radio tower. Simple.

You know what would be great?

Recruiting people that *^)& up your settlement!

Or steal (like your comrades), or even try to take over, corrupt communication lines, murder, spying! - not just that they are not good at their job and reduce a statistic in your ranger base for 'protection' or 'medical'.

Part of the game could be correctly sussing out a potential recruit, or testing them in a fight or numerous other 'methods' . I think that would add a really great challenge and make recruiting a lot more interesting!

Also, by making potential recruits agenda's randomized (along with incriminating or vindicating evidence), that would really extend re-playability.

It would stop me from spamming the 'recruit' button every-time I found anyone who can wind a bandage or shoot an air gun.

[nathanknaack]

Recruiting people that *^)& up your settlement!

I like it!

So when you meet a new NPC, it's a judgement call whether or not you send them back to live at the new ranger center. If it's a crappy NPC, the settlement suffers for it. If it's a shady or deceitful NPC, he could steal or even sabotage the new ranger center. Maybe they call you up on the radio and ask you to come back and take care of the situation!

[Emmy Lou]

I want to play WL2 to explore strange lands, talk to interesting people and occasionally have to shoot those people in the face for being backstabbing rats. So I hope they manage to make the base a fun and engaging part of the story and not something I have to stress out over and micro-manage too much. We're Rangers, not administrators! I want to have to get involved with the base's big events, not the little ones. Ask any cop what the worst part of their job is and a lot of them will tell you "the paper work!" I'm all for making a game more realistic and believable at points, but this is definitely not one of them! Maybe in the initial setup phase of starting the base you may need to do some resource gathering and such, which could be a fun challenge, but I don't want starting a base to be something I dread because it turns WL2 into a Simcity... sim. Who wants to be constantly radioed with every little thing that goes wrong while you're out doing important Ranger stuff?

"Hey guys, while you're out there, do you think you could pick a few things up for us?"
"Ummmm, kinda in the middle of a firefight with rogue cyborgs right now. Could you call back later?"

Being that you will likely have to recruit people to keep the base running and manned in your squad's stead, they aren't all going to be gun-toting aspiring jarheads. Some may be civilian types who find the idea of joining a secure military-ran base very appealing opposed to perhaps some of the harsher settlements and environs the Wasteland has to offer. Former merchants, craftsmen and organisers would all be valuable assets to keeping a base self-autonomous without having to constantly get the base's founders to do everything. If people are joining up with the Rangers, it's likely because your squad has proven to people that you are either heroic enough to follow or terrifying enough to have no choice in the matter (depending on your personal playthru's moral compass). Let the heroes be heroes and the laymen be laymen!

Of course, miniquests to improve the base might be fine, like I said, making the base a "fun and engaging" feature. But I don't want the whole operation falling to shambles because I'm not constantly babysitting it. Things should probably even go wrong, like I like the idea being tossed around of having to be choosy about whom I recruit so I don't pick up bad apples. I just don't want to have to play Mayor of Rangertown once I have a base! I wanna shoot robots, dammit!

[LBraden]

I think the situation of "Isn't that a new system that we can use to make a new radio system" sort of exploration, where you can send one, or realistically 2 of your team back to HQ to drop it off, possibly picking up some new ammo/food/medical supplies and then return to you.

I know some people may not like that, but honestly, it makes it less of a resource management game, and more of a "go forth and explore, anything you find that can upgrade your base, bring it back"

Of course, owed to the game comes out next year, we will see how the dev's make it, but then again, I am more of SimCity 4, Cities XL player, I do like to spend time making and upgrading bases, but I know, not everyone does, and Wasteland is more of the exploration games, which I love as well.

[nathanknaack]

I think the situation of "Isn't that a new system that we can use to make a new radio system" sort of exploration, where you can send one, or realistically 2 of your team back to HQ to drop it off, possibly picking up some new ammo/food/medical supplies and then return to you.

This could happen several ways:

A) You find a working .50 cal machinegun on an old military vehicle. It's too big to use in personal combat, but it would really help defend the new ranger center. You carry it around with you and, the next time you visit the NRC, you drop it off. The NRC gets a boost to its defense rating (just a number behind the scenes that determines how the NRC fares while you're not around) and when you're actually involved in a battle at the NRC, you get a friendly machinegun turret on your side.

B) You come across a skilled doctor in your travels, but he's a total coward (always runs away in battle) so he's useless for your ongoing mission; you send him back to the NRC. From that point on, whenever you return there, you get fully healed for free, plus the NRC gets a small boost to its defense rating and a nice boost to its growth rating (the number that determines how fast the NRC grows, attracts new recruits, and its general influence on the region).

C) You find a serviceable diesel engine in a broken down semi truck. It could be used as a power generator back at the NRC, but it's way too big to carry around, so you radio back to base and give them the coordinates. They send out another team of guys to get it for you. Next time you're at the NRC, the lights are on and the NRC gets a significant boost to its growth rating.