Fanservice

[windrider]

I for one would not mind a little fan service (cause who wouldn't want the option to add pretty party members), but I would not want that to be a main focus of the NPC design. For the most part I would like to see period correct attire (without the typical Hollywood/Fantasy less is more designs for female clothing).

I fully expect that with the release of a mod kit, we will see fan service type armor come into the game soon enough, but for the initial base game, don't put too many resources into it. Would rather see see more high quality character portraits and weapon designs then girls in cut off leather tanktops. Thanks.

[Drestlin]

no, it would not.
those ppl would have DIED the first encounter with a rat they had.
an illogical decision in our world brings some minor discomfort.
in a post apoc world brings death and/or rape.

kind of a darwinistic approach

Unless you are their first encounter.

this works for everyone except the illogical ones.
an illogical one would have died when he was a kid.

[Gearhead]

I really need to play JA, I keep seeing it here.

You absolutely must do this. There is no room for discussion!

[cah]

Well, if we are going for realism then we should have one bullet kills

One hit kills are not guaranteed IRL either. Take the 1986 shootout for example.

forced to eat, drink, sleep

This can be pretty easily incorporated into the fast travel.

not to mention characters should probably die being in the sun too long and traveling.

Not if they are adequately equipped, as opposed to bikini armor. If the latter is to be put in the game, it would only be acceptable if it were to give you damage per time unit while in the open.

See, tha'ts the thing about realism, sometimes it gets in the way of fun.

Total suspension of disbelief is what gets in the way of fun. If Wasteland is to be anything like the original, it has to be able to exercise one's intelligence, not stupidity. We have too much media for the latter already.

[Azriel]

See, tha'ts the thing about realism, sometimes it gets in the way of fun.

Indeed, realism can get in the way of fun. But so can unecessary departures from reality. Hypersexualization of women gets in the way of my fun. So, whose fun is more important - mine or yours?[/quote]

Well, I vote for me because I am biased like that. I think some things are getting mixed up, I just want variety, the problem I have is some people on here want ALL women in the game to be serious, hard working, no nonsense characters and only have the prostitutes be fanservice. That bugs me, there are all types of women(people) in the real world and I expect that in the game also. From the serious hard worker to the freaky party queen, a little bit of everything for everyone. Whats wrong with that?

One hit kills are not guaranteed IRL either. Take the 1986 shootout for example.

However, much more likely to happen and even if you survived, you are most likely in critical shape and can't move for months. Yea, not something most people want to play.

This can be pretty easily incorporated into the fast travel.

Few people want to suffer through eating, sleeping, and drinking in a game.

Total suspension of disbelief is what gets in the way of fun. If Wasteland is to be anything like the original, it has to be able to exercise one's intelligence, not stupidity. We have too much media for the latter already.

Having a game too realistic will kill it just as well.

[Woolfe]

Huzzah, so we all agree that we want something somewhat in the middle ground of Real vs Unreal.

So lets stop using silly examples of one or the other. We are aiming for a game that is more on the side of realism in that it is a contemporary setting and therefore it has contemporary type things going on, but it also has very non contemporary elements. Such as giant robot scorpions and mutant monsters etc.

So now apply that to the varying degree's of fan service.

Skin and Sex appeal where appropriate.

Appropriate could mean you have a certain character that enjoys that sort of thing, or it could mean there is a NPC who enjoys that sort of thing, or it could mena there is an npc whose job it is to be in that situation, or you could have an NPC who is doing it in order to get your attention but doesn't normally.

Sex exists, and we have a whole spectrum of degrees of activity in regards to it. This applies to Females or Males.

[cah]

there are all types of women(people) in the real world and I expect that in the game also. From the serious hard worker to the freaky party queen, a little bit of everything for everyone. Whats wrong with that?

Trying to play the realism card now, huh? But guess what, you can't expect the post-apocalyptic wasteland to be as hospitable as modern beaches and night clubs. Realism goes out the window.

However, much more likely to happen and even if you survived, you are most likely in critical shape and can't move for months.Yea, not something most people want to play.

Why not? JA2 was rather unforgiving with damage, still many people enjoy it.

Few people want to suffer through eating, sleeping, and drinking in a game.

Hence, I said that it could be taking place during the fast travel, when you don't see it.

Having a game too realistic will kill it just as well.

Unlike the other end of the spectrum I'm yet to see any games in the modern history that suffer from being too realistic.

[Azriel]

Trying to play the realism card now, huh? But guess what, you can't expect the post-apocalyptic wasteland to be as hospitable as modern beaches and night clubs. Realism goes out the window.

I always said its got to be both realistic to a point, but not to the point where it affects the fun.

Why not? JA2 was rather unforgiving with damage, still many people enjoy it.

I have not played JA games so I can't comment.

Hence, I said that it could be taking place during the fast travel, when you don't see it.

Explain this one, not sure what you mean.

Unlike the other end of the spectrum I'm yet to see any games in the modern history that suffer from being too realistic.

There are plenty of developers who tried putting in more realistic stuff in games(required eating, sleeping..etc), but they said it just wasn't fun and took it out before releasing the finale product. The closest thing was armour repair/degredation in bethesda games. Whoever thought degradation of wepons/armour was a good idea should be beaten to an inch of their life. The forums were filled with people who HATE that feature and didn't want it. At least they got rid of it in skyrim.

[Azriel]

Sex exists, and we have a whole spectrum of degrees of activity in regards to it. This applies to Females or Males.

Agreed

[Color Blotch]

I think this thread deviated from the original thought of the OP. The problem isn't with how much sexuality a game should be allowed to exhibit. The answer to this question is entirely up to chosen style and setting, which is in the end an artistic choice. The problem is when a game is filled with completely out of place ultra feminine bombshells with off the wall exaggerated proportions just for the sake of attracting teenage audience to the game. This is what so called "fan service" essentially is - drawing people in with cheap tricks, while taking the actual living substance out of the game. Romantic vampires and red boots are just another side of the same thing.

[cah]

Hence, I said that it could be taking place during the fast travel, when you don't see it.

Explain this one, not sure what you mean.

That all of the physiological needs are assumed to get attended to automatically while you travel between cities. The time goes in fast-forward, and you don't get to observe everyone's actions.

The closest thing was armour repair/degredation in bethesda games. Whoever thought degradation of wepons/armour was a good idea should be beaten to an inch of their life.

Maybe because they did it wrong, i.e. through combining items (not just consumable kits) and (possibly?) making the degradation too quick. By the way, JA2 also had repair and I haven't heard much complaints (of course you would know about it either).

The problem isn't with how much sexuality a game should be allowed to exhibit. The problem is when a game is filled with completely out of place ultra feminine bombshells with off the wall exaggerated proportions just for the sake of attracting teenage audience to the game. This is what so called "fan service" essentially is - drawing people in with cheap tricks, while taking the actual living substance out of the game.

I don't think that anyone was asking for naked hideous mutants. So it's assumed that whenever there is sexuality, it has to be some hot babe.

[TΛPETRVE]

Whoever thought degradation of wepons/armour was a good idea should be beaten to an inch of their life.

Oh, I liked e.g. the degradation of weapons and armour in the Souls games. It forced you to be wary when approaching your enemies, as e.g. repeatedly hitting walls would break your blade pretty quickly.

[Color Blotch]

I don't think that anyone was asking for naked hideous mutants. So it's assumed that whenever there is sexuality, it has to be some hot babe.

The problem is that the first and the second have been gradually converging in popular culture, so as of now you pretty much getting both whether you ask for it or not.

[TΛPETRVE]

I don't think that anyone was asking for naked hideous mutants. So it's assumed that whenever there is sexuality, it has to be some hot babe.

The problem is that the first and the second have been gradually converging in popular culture, so as of now you pretty much getting both whether you ask for it or not.

Lemme guess...

[katz]

I don't think that anyone was asking for naked hideous mutants. So it's assumed that whenever there is sexuality, it has to be some hot babe.

The problem is that the first and the second have been gradually converging in popular culture, so as of now you pretty much getting both whether you ask for it or not.

So true: http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

Being a straight female, if there are scantily-clad hot babes, I demand scantily-clad hot dudes. Fair is fair.

[TΛPETRVE]

Being a straight female, if there are scantily-clad hot babes, I demand scantily-clad hot dudes. Fair is fair.

As wasteland is a child of the 80s, I'm sure there will be post-nuclear barbarians around .

[BlackGauntlet]

Being a straight female, if there are scantily-clad hot babes, I demand scantily-clad hot dudes. Fair is fair.

That's fan service for our gay community too.

[Lantander]

Being a straight female, if there are scantily-clad hot babes, I demand scantily-clad hot dudes. Fair is fair.

That's fan service for our gay community too.

Yay for dudes in barbarian chic loincloths. Eye candy for everyone!

[Azriel]

I think this thread deviated from the original thought of the OP. The problem isn't with how much sexuality a game should be allowed to exhibit. The answer to this question is entirely up to chosen style and setting, which is in the end an artistic choice. The problem is when a game is filled with completely out of place ultra feminine bombshells with off the wall exaggerated proportions just for the sake of attracting teenage audience to the game. This is what so called "fan service" essentially is - drawing people in with cheap tricks, while taking the actual living substance out of the game. Romantic vampires and red boots are just another side of the same thing.

Thats interesting, since the games of old were designed for teenagers(which could handle mature/adult themes before the esrb came around) of the time. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can have the substance in the game while including a moderate amount of fanservice which doesn't take anything away.

[Color Blotch]

Thats interesting, since the games of old were designed for teenagers(which could handle mature/adult themes before the esrb came around) of the time. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can have the substance in the game while including a moderate amount of fanservice which doesn't take anything away.

No you can't. That's the thing, you can't have a cake and eat it. It's either you make decisions of the fact how your characters look based on what makes sense, your artistic vision, setting, stylistics or you don't. And every time you don't it takes away from the final product - there's no way around it. It's the same kind of decision that Bethesda made by making Fallout 3 an FPS. Not that it made the most sense or was going to result in a better game. But it sure as hell made the screenshots much flashier. And no, you can't make a game a moderate amount FPS.