The Chosen One Syndrome

[cah]

In the Wasteland you WERE the chosen one, because the Ranger Center has intended for you to destroy the base all along, they just didn't tell you.
If the player is not given a mission then why would you expect them to progress in the game? At any point they could just say: "Screw this, I'm going home. It's not like the fate of the world depends on me"

[Noble]

To be fair, Hobo Oracle knew prophesied much of what happened in Wasteland -- SNAKE SQUEEZINS: The answer is 42.

[Keaton]

Dunno if somebody already mentioned this but if the writers give you the opportunity to make huge changes to the game world, be it to the better or worse, then it becomes verly likely that at least some NPCs will treat your party like the chosen ones.
Doesn't have to mean that you really were chosen, it would be more like a combination of:
1. superstition: The goddess of destiny sent you!
2. desperation: You are our only hope!
3. fear and arse kissing: Oh mighty warriors, your arrival in this town has been foretold long ago. How can I be of service? Do you want directions? -> meaning: Please go away already, you bring trouble.
4. opportunism: Could I interest you in this necklace of heroism, it really suits you, oh valiant hero.

But yeah, legends of the chosen one becoming real like in TES-games indeed suck.

I still would be very careful to dismiss the old and proven CRPG trope of a game world revolving around your characters.
If you want to be the average joe then it wouldn't be possible to implement a really epic narrative, you would have to keep it down to earth mostly. But then again that would be refreshing, I played very few CRPGs where you were not the chosen one for a quest of great impact, turning the game world upside down in the process and making it all one stupid land of milk and honey (if you chose to be the good guy)...

[paultakeda]

In the Wasteland you WERE the chosen one, because the Ranger Center has intended for you to destroy the base all along, they just didn't tell you.
If the player is not given a mission then why would you expect them to progress in the game? At any point they could just say: "Screw this, I'm going home. It's not like the fate of the world depends on me"

Yes, YOU the player. "Chosen One" is a snark/homage to FO2's semi-serious parody on the idea that a main character, an avatar (hello, Ultima, yes Chosen One games are not a new thing) is a special character that must survive to complete the game. That's the syndrome being discussed.

Personally, I like main character games; I just don't want them all the time and miss the party-based games of my youth. Gladly, there are others who feel the same way and hopefully Wasteland 2 will be a gateway game for younger gamers to experience this lost genre of RPG and despite their misgivings like it.

[cah]

Yes, YOU the player.

I meant it as the character actually.

Would it help to include the acknowledgment of other groups of people who also perform important missions (like in FO:T)?

[paultakeda]

Yes, YOU the player.

I meant it as the character actually.

Would it help to include the acknowledgment of other groups of people who also perform important missions (like in FO:T)?

Which character? There's no special character in Wasteland. The party is sent out to deal out Ranger justice and by the end of the game the party may not have the same characters as when you started. So what you in Wasteland is the Chosen One?

I don't understand what you mean by acknowledging other groups, what for?

[TΛPETRVE]

The Wasteland should survive no matter what happens to the player's characters.

Wouldn't that be contrary to the legacy of Wasteland 1, where you do indeed save humanity from its final annihilation?

Well, then let the plot end one step ahead of total destruction. Instead of having your party be the ultimate weapon to fight evil, just make them an asset to prepare for the dawn of a new age, without actually preventing it from happening. I mentioned the Terminator plotline in another thread - Skynet cannot be stopped in advance, but it can be fought back. The goal is to prepare - Si vis pacem, para bellum. The JRPG Valkyrie Profile did something faintly of the kind, it had you recruit and train party members, then send those who you deem fit to Valhalla where they would wait to be sent into battle for Ragnarök. Only when the game is essentially beaten, war breaks out and your efforts throughout the whole game (and not only a few decisions in the final mission, as Mass Effect 2 did) decide on how the story ends.

[Snerf]

Adding my vote for no "Chosen One" or harry potter dynamic.

Whatever happened to being an average joe that stepped up?

[TΛPETRVE]

Whatever happened to being an average joe that stepped up?

Zero-to-hero is not much better. The result is the same.

[Snerf]

Whatever happened to being an average joe that stepped up?

Zero-to-hero is not much better. The result is the same.

First of all, I wasn't saying zero to hero.

However, I would argue that it is better to feature a plot where people rise to greatness through their own exploits rather than through being born some kind of mystical wunderkind.

[TΛPETRVE]

True, but if you want to avoid the zero-to-hero cliché I mentioned, it also means that there should be no sudden threat coming upon the game world, which you are essentially destined to take down, even if it was not clear from the beginning. It doesn't matter if you start off as the Chosen One or you become mankind's only hope later in the game, the results are, as I said, pretty much the same. Tone down the heroics just a bit, make the player part of a greater scheme, have him destroy evil not by his own bare hands, but with the aid of all the allies he likely made throughout the course of the game. Helps a lot to make him look less superhuman and "holy saviour"-like.

[cah]

Which character? There's no special character in Wasteland. The party is sent out to deal out Ranger justice and by the end of the game the party may not have the same characters as when you started. So what you in Wasteland is the Chosen One?

The whole party is the chosen.

I don't understand what you mean by acknowledging other groups, what for?

Have you played FO:T? You are often told about other squads who perform other missions, reportedly sometimes even more important than yours. This way it doesn't appear that you are fighting the ultimate evil all by yourself. That should alleviate the 'chosen' effect.

[TΛPETRVE]

Have you played FO:T? You are often told about other squads who perform other missions, reportedly sometimes even more important than yours. This way it doesn't appear that you are fighting the ultimate evil all by yourself. That should alleviate the 'chosen' effect.

My point exactly, albeit FO:T first and foremost is a strategy/tactics game and you're put into a rigid mission framework from the get-go. In a more open RPG, you have far more choices in how to tackle your way through the game, but the factions residing all over the game world should actually act alongside you, not ecpect you alone to do the whole dirty work. Hell, if anything, they should deal with shit where you don't, be it because you're incapable or even unwilling, or just busy otherwise.

[Clockwork Knight]

In the Wasteland you WERE the chosen one, because the Ranger Center has intended for you to destroy the base all along, they just didn't tell you.
If the player is not given a mission then why would you expect them to progress in the game? At any point they could just say: "Screw this, I'm going home. It's not like the fate of the world depends on me"

Not sure if serious (probably not), but having a mission doesn't make you a chosen one.

[cah]

Not sure if serious (probably not), but having a mission doesn't make you a chosen one.

Chosen one for the mission, no?

[DraygonZero]

By playing the game you are already the chosen one. I agree the cliche goes too far sometimes, but the fact of the matter is even if you dont start out the chosen one, you become the chosen one (or ones) eventually otherwise the story would be boring and/or too open and the game would go nowhere. I like sandbox, but the big disadvantage of sandbox is you lose motivation after a while cuz you dont feel like you have a purpose anymore.

[Gumpo]

I'm against chosen one syndrome as well...

A game can give you a lot of motivation without making you or your party suffer from chosen one syndrome. Fallout 3 actually did that fairly well - you weren't leaving the vault to save everyone inside by repairing their water purifier chip, you were just trying to find your dad. Along the way, more plot developed - I personally would have liked to have had to search three or four times longer, because i liked that idea as my motivation - though, continuing to play the game for me was still less about saving the world, and more about revenge. Say what you will about Bethesda, but that main story quest was done very well.

Something like that could work really well. I like the idea of the game revolving more around a track someone down / revenge plot, i mean, isn't that why Mad Max was Mad? (And Isn't that one of the biggest influences on Wasteland?)

I don't mind a "save the world" plot, but i do prefer that they progress more fluidly - like the original Deus Ex, where you do a few generic missions before uncovering more plot details, and eventually falling into the middle of the conspiracy.

[cah]

Fallout 3 actually did that fairly well - you weren't leaving the vault to save everyone inside by repairing their water purifier chip, you were just trying to find your dad. Along the way, more plot developed

You were trying to find {water chip, G.E.C.K, your dad}, because then you would be allowed to return and everything would get back to normal at your home place. Of course, as soon as your search successfully ends, you are tasked with saving at least the entire game area. So there is not much difference in your motivation between the games in the series.

[Mandemon]

Fallout 3 actually did that fairly well - you weren't leaving the vault to save everyone inside by repairing their water purifier chip, you were just trying to find your dad. Along the way, more plot developed

You were trying to find {water chip, G.E.C.K, your dad}, because then you would be allowed to return and everything would get back to normal at your home place. Of course, as soon as your search successfully ends, you are tasked with saving at least the entire game area. So there is not much difference in your motivation between the games in the series.

Doesn't change the fact that you never set out to save the world. In 1 and 2, you go out to save your home with relatively simple task (Go to place X. Get Y. Return), which then goes on and complicates things. Haven't played 3rd, so I can't say.

In fact, if you got Fallout 2 Restoration Project patch, you can even find out that developers actually planned to joke on "Chosen One" idea. You weren't the Chosen one. You were a Chosen One. Several others had been send out already, with last one trying to stop you so that he could claim the glory.

[cah]

Doesn't change the fact that you never set out to save the world. In 1 and 2, you go out to save your home with relatively simple task (Go to place X. Get Y. Return), which then goes on and complicates things.

My point exactly.

Haven't played 3rd, so I can't say.

Conceptually it's the same.

In fact, if you got Fallout 2 Restoration Project patch, you can even find out that developers actually planned to joke on "Chosen One" idea. You weren't the Chosen one. You were a Chosen One. Several others had been send out already, with last one trying to stop you so that he could claim the glory.

If you are referring to Kaga, he wasn't another Chosen One: he was banished from Arroyo. His revenge plans consisted of killing the protagonist and then destroying the village. So the joke part was that being the Chosen One could actually complicate one's life.