Kickstarter Drive Update #13, $30 Tier Updated

[Signal]

Just cancelled my pledge. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to support greed. I never even heard of Wasteland before this campaign (I've heard of and played Fallout though, the originals), so my pledge was mostly just to stick it to the greedy publishers. Which makes it pretty pointless when they decide to segregate by OS just to squeeze a few extra bucks out of us.

I really do hope there's a change of mind though, and if there is I'll even double my pledge. But if not, well, good luck...

There's nothing greedy about trying to get a larger development budget. The man was willing to put up 100k of his own money to make sure the game happened.

The more money InXile get, the BIGGER AND BETTER the game will be. How can people not understand the purpose of this?

Because he's greedy. He's too selfish to give up even just a few dollars of his hoarded money in order to ensure a better product. Instead he'll no doubt play the game anyway by pirating it, and never contribute a dime to improving it in any way after its release or even a Wasteland 3. Because he's greedy.

Seriously, though: A lot of gamers have this sense of entitlement mentality that leads them to believe that any time a developer gets any kind of money to create a game, it's greed. Developers must work on these projects that last more than a year while taking absolutely no payment, you know. It's only fair. Anything else is being greedy.

[aaronjg77]

aaronjg77 actually you should really try and see that not only the 30 dollar group is getting more, but also so are all the other upper pledges getting more. To my knowledge there was no words of a novelle from Chris Avellone before, whitch you will get as a nice new thing just as mutch as a 30 dollar pledger. All the above tiers will laos get the potraits, video blog and another dowloadable copy of the game. I donät remember if the concept art book had been in the tier before, but I trust that otheräs remmeber it better, so if it ws there already before then it was, and then you have not been "stolen" anything, as it had been in the lower tiers earlier as well.

everyone is just getting more for their money, if that's what they are concerned about, not less. And the beta version already would alone pretty mutch make the difference in the 30 dollar and 55 dollar pledges. It is the same kind of difference as the beta acces difference from 50 dollars to 75 dollars. So everyone just get's more not less (as we could even argue that originally the game would have only had the chrachter portait's that will be already included in the 15 dollars pledge, and now there is just an offer for more chrachter potrait's for those who do donate more).

Ok let me start this by saying I am keeping my pledge at 55. OK. But think about this... If you close the gap between the 30 tier and the 55 tier what's not to keep people from downgrading thier pledged. Look people are already canceling at the last minute because of some stupid OS issue that isnt even important. Like I said im keeping my pledge at 55 like I promised. I'm just saying...

Not everybody pledging is as devoted as others. Some have never even played Wasteland 1.

[Kide]

I have never played the original either.

[noose]

There's nothing greedy about trying to get a larger development budget. The man was willing to put up 100k of his own money to make sure the game happened.

The more money InXile get, the BIGGER AND BETTER the game will be. How can people not understand the purpose of this?

You don't think he expects to make a profit out of this? Come on, don't be naive. This is probably the best investment he ever made. 100% of the profits with only 3% of the funds. Not that he doesn't deserve to make a good profit, that's not the issue. Nor is money the only goal of greed.

Do you know what the per copy cost of distributing a multi-GB digital game is? Less than a cent. And they're already commited to doing the ports. The content is what we pay for, and there is no reason you should have to buy the content twice if you choose to switch platforms in a few years, except of couse... greed. The same greed that feeds the recording and movie industries, and imposes DRM and draconian laws that try to keep us from copying music and movies from our legally bought shiny plastic discs to ipods and media center pcs.

I'm sorry, but that's a game I'm not willing to play, even if I get a Wasteland sequal as a bonus.

[Blade Runner]

OK, I am thinking about changing my pledge to $55 or $75, but I need to know if these novellas by Mike Stackpole be available to everyone after the game has been released, will they cost anything, and what eBook format will you use? Increasing my pledge depends on your answer.

All the ebooks are covered in the 55 tier.

Yeah, I know BUT I really want the physical copy to add to my collection. However, if the novellas will be available to non-backers on Kindle, iPAD, Nook, etc. then I'm going to save my limited funds and stick with the $50 pledge.

[noose]

Dude it's not thier decision. It has to do with the way the media is distributed. If you choose to get it through steam, then you should be able to play it on Win or Mac with the same code. Unfortunatly it wouldn't cover Linux. It has to do with the distribution media.

Would you care to elaborate? What distribution media have they chosen that excludes the possiblity of any other methods of distribution that could enable it.

Plenty of other indie developers seem to find a way...

[Waywocket]

If you close the gap between the 30 tier and the 55 tier what's not to keep people from downgrading thier pledged.

That's not an especially relevant question given that the gap hasn't been closed. Obviously a few people misread the $30 reward level at some point.

[Nohar]

It would be better to not argue anymore about the notion of "greed". I don't see this discussion going anywhere pleasant...
Anyway, even if some people downgrade their pledges, it's not that important, and they have the liberty to do it. Overall, the game is getting more and more backers every hour (I would say "every minute", but I guess I would be exagerating a little). Some people downgrading their pledge from $55 to $30 isn't a big deal. I mean, come on, we* have gathered over $2,700,000 dollars, and maybe even more ! The game will be developped ! Even if we don't reach the $3M goal, I think we can trust the team to create a wonderful game (well, I sure hope so... And I will lead the flame war and throw some Fireballs if I'm disappointed - just in case, I want to be clear, this is a joke).

* @RangerBen:

Nohar's Finger of Troll : And if you want to talk about greedy companies, one just got elected "Worst Company in America" recently.

[aaronjg77]

I have never played the original either.

But not everybody is willing to stay like you or I. Look at the guy in this string that left. He's not being greedy he has a genuine concern that while might be technically impossiable, the reason why was never explained to him. Think of how many more of him that aren't leaving comments and just quitting at the last minute there might be.

[aaronjg77]

It would be better to not argue anymore about the notion of "greed". I don't see this discussion going anywhere pleasant...
Anyway, even if some people downgrade their pledges, it's not that important, and they have the liberty to do it. Overall, the game is getting more and more backers every hour (I would say "every minute", but I guess I would be exagerating a little). Some people downgrading their pledge from $55 to $30 isn't a big deal. I mean, come on, we* have gathered over $2,700,000 dollars, and maybe even more ! The game will be developped ! Even if we don't reach the $3M goal, I think we can trust the team to create a wonderful game (well, I sure hope so... And I will lead the flame war and throwing some Fireball if I'm disappointed - just in case, I want to be clear, this is a joke).

* @RangerBen:

Nohar's Finger of Troll : And if you want to talk about greedy companies, one just got elected "Worst Company in America" recently.

Some people downgrading is a big deal.

[aaronjg77]

Dude it's not thier decision. It has to do with the way the media is distributed. If you choose to get it through steam, then you should be able to play it on Win or Mac with the same code. Unfortunatly it wouldn't cover Linux. It has to do with the distribution media.

Would you care to elaborate? What distribution media have they chosen that excludes the possiblity of any other methods of distribution that could enable it.

Plenty of other indie developers seem to find a way...

Well the only word I have heard them say so far is steam, so that seems to be the way that they are choosing to go. I can't blame them. It's a good way to distributor media. As far as the Linux version, I couldn't elaborate. We will have to wait and see.

[Brigand231]

I'm sorry, but that's a game I'm not willing to play, even if I get a Wasteland sequal as a bonus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, noose. You've already informed us of your cancellation, right. What more are you hoping to gain? Having withdrawn your pledge you are now a guest in "our" house. You first asked for clarification on the issue then, without receiving an answer, rendered your judgement... I'll repeat that for emphasis, the question was asked if the line between OS's could be done away with - allow time for someone who CAN answer that to answer it. Yes, the deadline is drawing near, but the question was asked very late in the game. I'm not up for debating whether the claim is valid or not, I'm asking why it was suddenly the all-important claim at this exact moment instead of being an important and deciding claim from the beginning?

As for the electronic distribution of documents, I'd just assumed it would be done via pdf, but the way this is going now that seems like too simple an answer.

[aaronjg77]

OK, I am thinking about changing my pledge to $55 or $75, but I need to know if these novellas by Mike Stackpole be available to everyone after the game has been released, will they cost anything, and what eBook format will you use? Increasing my pledge depends on your answer.

All the ebooks are covered in the 55 tier.

Yeah, I know BUT I really want the physical copy to add to my collection. However, if the novellas will be available to non-backers on Kindle, iPAD, Nook, etc. then I'm going to save my limited funds and stick with the $50 pledge.

Are you sure the 75 tier gets physical copies?

[Brigand231]

Are you sure the 75 tier gets physical copies?

What do I receive with the $75 reward?
You will receive a large boxed copy of the game (with cloth map and old school instruction book), early playable beta access, both early release digital episodic novellas (part 1 & 2), digital concept art book, downloadable digital soundtrack, 2 DRM free digital copies of the game (PC or Mac or Linux), exclusive Ranger portrait collection, 4 episode video development blog, Chris Avellone novella,and unique and quirky skill.

The manual is specified physical, hard goods. The rest is specified digital.

[noose]

Well the only word I have heard them say so far is steam, so that seems to be the way that they are choosing to go. I can't blame them. It's a good way to distributor media. As far as the Linux version, I couldn't elaborate. We will have to wait and see.

They've sort of implied the Linux version will be a digital download already, so I certainly hope they have an alternative. If not there's a lot more trouble coming their way. But let's hope they give us a good answer soon.

[chaosite]

Seriously, though: A lot of gamers have this sense of entitlement mentality that leads them to believe that any time a developer gets any kind of money to create a game, it's greed. Developers must work on these projects that last more than a year while taking absolutely no payment, you know. It's only fair. Anything else is being greedy.

What in the who in the where now?

The developers should be paid. I'm a developer, and I get paid, why shouldn't they? But this "Linux, Windows, MacOS X, pick ONE" business is pretty damn arbitrary. I mean, I have the game, lets say I picked Windows, why can't I play it on Linux? There's a perfectly fine Linux right over there! It's working! It's funded! Whaddya mean, I have to buy a whole new copy? It makes no sense! Now I got a Macbook (hey, they're sexy), why can't I play my game on that? Again, there's a Mac version! The developers were paid, in full! I paid, in full! What's the point of the restriction?

It feels like we're being nickled and dimed for a completely arbitrary reason. Steam does it right, with SteamPlay (that doesn't include Linux, but Steam doesn't include Linux either). The Humble Bundle does it right. Bioware used to do it right. id does it right. Epic does it right. If a game supports an OS, you should be able to play it on that OS.

What if instead of splitting the copies by OS, they'd split them by something else? Lets say, graphics cards. AMD or nVidia, pick one. Writing graphics code isn't easy, y'know, and each of those expose different extensions. And you'd obviously have to test on each one. Makes absolute sense. Well, no, it's a completely arbitrary dichotomy and you'd be rightly outraged.

Dude it's not thier decision. It has to do with the way the media is distributed. If you choose to get it through steam, then you should be able to play it on Win or Mac with the same code. Unfortunatly it wouldn't cover Linux. It has to do with the distribution media.

Why?

Humble Bundle made it work just fine. Hell, NWN and UT2004 just let everyone download the Linux executables for free, it's not like they're worth much without the textures, audio, etc... y'know, the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, noose. You've already informed us of your cancellation, right. What more are you hoping to gain? Having withdrawn your pledge you are now a guest in "our" house. You first asked for clarification on the issue then, without receiving an answer, rendered your judgement... I'll repeat that for emphasis, the question was asked if the line between OS's could be done away with - allow time for someone who CAN answer that to answer it. Yes, the deadline is drawing near, but the question was asked very late in the game. I'm not up for debating whether the claim is valid or not, I'm asking why it was suddenly the all-important claim at this exact moment instead of being an important and deciding claim from the beginning?

Fine, argue with me then. I'm still pledging for international reward. I also won't be withdrawing my pledge, since by giving me two "copies", one for Windows and one for Linux, I get to play the game on all the OSes that I happen to use. It's still stupid though.
The reason this all-important claim was brought up right now is because it wasn't at all clear that this was the intention before. Yes, the reward did read "Digital Downloadable copy of game DRM free for PC or MAC OSX or Linux." (emphasis mine), but I read that "or" as an inclusive or. Because that's what previous indie developers (indie in the sense of not being tied to a major publisher, which is exactly what we have here) I bought games from meant by "PC or Mac OS X or Linux".
Only with this update, where we were informed that getting 2 copies of the game is a solution to the problem of getting a version for only one OS did I (and apparently noose) realize that we're only getting a version for a single OS.

Edits: Speiling, as well Grammar.

[noose]

Correct me if I'm wrong, noose. You've already informed us of your cancellation, right. What more are you hoping to gain? Having withdrawn your pledge you are now a guest in "our" house. You first asked for clarification on the issue then, without receiving an answer, rendered your judgement... I'll repeat that for emphasis, the question was asked if the line between OS's could be done away with - allow time for someone who CAN answer that to answer it. Yes, the deadline is drawing near, but the question was asked very late in the game. I'm not up for debating whether the claim is valid or not, I'm asking why it was suddenly the all-important claim at this exact moment instead of being an important and deciding claim from the beginning?

As I said, I thought it was a given, until this last update pointed out that it apparently wasn't. It really seems like a no-brainer to me. I'm hoping to get attention to the seriousness of the issue, so we can get a good answer quickly. They've had almost 24 hours to answer, and there's less than that left of the campaign. They've had plenty of time. If we do get a good answer, I'll be right there pledging again, and, as I also said, I'll even double it. I want this game to get as much funding and be as good as you do.

[chaosite]

For reference, I dug out the receipt e-mail I got from 2D Boy when I bought World of Goo 3 years ago. Yes, I bought it before the first Humble Bundle came out. It has a digital download link, which leads to a secret area of their website.
It looks like this: http://ompldr.org/vZGVmaA

You'll note that I can download the game for Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux (packaged in 3 different formats, even). This is what we were expecting. The year is 2012, digital copies can be distributed for pennies, and there's absolutely no reason for it not to work like this. It just makes sense.

[TMRNetShark]

I upgraded my $15 to $30... more so that I want this game to be AWESOME and I get a few more things and 2 digital copies...

[Zeronet]

You don't think he expects to make a profit out of this? Come on, don't be naive. This is probably the best investment he ever made. 100% of the profits with only 3% of the funds. Not that he doesn't deserve to make a good profit, that's not the issue. Nor is money the only goal of greed.

InXile is a DEVELOPER and Wasteland 2 does not have a publisher. All money involved with the game will remain in the realm of funding game development. Valve corporation is also a LLC, thus all profits they make on the release of Wasteland 2 remain with a development company, not a publisher or shareholder.

Do you know what the per copy cost of distributing a multi-GB digital game is? Less than a cent. And they're already commited to doing the ports. The content is what we pay for, and there is no reason you should have to buy the content twice if you choose to switch platforms in a few years, except of couse... greed. The same greed that feeds the recording and movie industries, and imposes DRM and draconian laws that try to keep us from copying music and movies from our legally bought shiny plastic discs to ipods and media center pcs.

I believe the cost is something like 5-10% per copy going to the distribution platform. STEAM offers content as PC/MAC for the same code, so when you buy it for the PC or MAC if you've got the money left over after buying three different computers with three different OS's. The absolutely minuscule amount of people who are going to get the game for the PC then switch to Linux and set fire to their old machine probably havent entered the mental equation.

Now that we're talking about greed, we've entered the realm of, sorry to be rude, but utter tripe and complete nonsense. InXile is not a publisher, as far as i know, it does not have shareholders or a multimillion dollar a year salary for it's CEO. It's a developer, i imagine all the profits of InXile game's go into ensuring it's developers have jobs by funding the next game they want to make, the horror. There's no DRM and i'm sure nobody expects you to buy the game twice when you switch from PC to MAC to Linux like you are apparently intending.

I'm sorry, but that's a game I'm not willing to play, even if I get a Wasteland sequal as a bonus.

Well when the game comes out, you will probably be able to buy it full price for all three platforms, instead of the discount price we're getting now.