AO, M or Teen?

[Lucky]

My former Topic titled "NC-17" seems to have caused some confusion. So, I am starting this topic and letting the other fade away.

For the sake of clarity here are definitions in brief:

AO Contains content that is considered unsuitable for people under 18 years of age, and cannot be bought by anyone below that age. These may include adult video games that show sex and graphic nudity, extreme violence and blood and gore. Additionally, most major retailers, although they will carry M-rated games, have policies that forbid AO-rated titles to be sold in their stores or through their websites. This consequently restricts AO-rated games to the PC and Mac, and being sold in limited fashion.

M Titles in this category may contain more blood and gore than the Teen rating would accommodate, sexual themes/content/references (which are censored) and vulgar language. This content is strong in impact.

Teen Contains content that may be suitable for people 13 and older. However, it is not required that people under 13 must be accompanied by an adult to buy these games. This content is moderate to fairly strong in impact.

My hope is that this game has an M rating that borders on being an AO rating.

[Ekaros]

AO, there is no point to go anything lower. If there isn't any realy good reasons against it.

[Mandemon]

AO, there is no point to go anything lower. If there isn't any realy good reasons against it.

There is reason to avoid AO. Many retailers would no accept it. Steam included and as far as I know, game is supposed to come out on Steam to allow those who have it play it trough Steam.

[Ekaros]

Or don't get it rated at all. M is too limiting in my mind...

[homeslice82]

AO, there is no point to go anything lower. If there isn't any realy good reasons against it.

There is reason to avoid AO. Many retailers would no accept it. Steam included and as far as I know, game is supposed to come out on Steam to allow those who have it play it trough Steam.

Yep.

Also, Ekaros, the developers would literally have to overcompensate to get AO. Ever played Fallout 1? You blow kids apart. It's only rated M. I don't see a particular need to go beyond that, do you?

[Drool]

AO, there is no point to go anything lower. If there isn't any realy good reasons against it.

There's no reason for it either. There's making a game geared towards adults, and there's just randomly shoving crap in to be "edgy" or "adult". I don't need to be pandered to by the game. I don't need yet another game with a giant purple dildo weapon. And the fact that there's multiple games with giant purple dildos is really kind of sad.

Hopefully inXile will make the game without any regard whatsoever to the ESRB and let the chips fall where they may. Plotting out your rating before you've even started pre-production seems ridiculous.

[Ekaros]

AO, there is no point to go anything lower. If there isn't any realy good reasons against it.

There is reason to avoid AO. Many retailers would no accept it. Steam included and as far as I know, game is supposed to come out on Steam to allow those who have it play it trough Steam.

Yep.

Also, Ekaros, the developers would literally have to overcompensate to get AO. Ever played Fallout 1? You blow kids apart. It's only rated M. I don't see a particular need to go beyond that, do you?

I think it might get AO if it was rated today, which is a problem. Just like unkillable children in those other games...

[Ekaros]

AO, there is no point to go anything lower. If there isn't any realy good reasons against it.

There's no reason for it either. There's making a game geared towards adults, and there's just randomly shoving crap in to be "edgy" or "adult". I don't need to be pandered to by the game. I don't need yet another game with a giant purple dildo weapon. And the fact that there's multiple games with giant purple dildos is really kind of sad.

Hopefully inXile will make the game without any regard whatsoever to the ESRB and let the chips fall where they may. Plotting out your rating before you've even started pre-production seems ridiculous.

Just my point, explore all themes and if it results in AO take it, don't bow to the nuts...

[Lucky]

Hopefully inXile will make the game without any regard whatsoever to the ESRB and let the chips fall where they may. Plotting out your rating before you've even started pre-production seems ridiculous.

Well, avoiding an AO would seem wise given that Steam apparently does not carry AO games. If that isn't the case then screw it. The bottom line is not limiting the devs with a rating designed for broad appeal.

[qlum]

Make it as violent and such as it would be seen fit and if esrb gives it a AO edit it so it gets M and make a patch available to make it AO again if people want to. A EU version does not have a AO rating and I assume it will get a pegi 18 rating anyway so there is no need to restrict it there.

[homeslice82]

Hopefully inXile will make the game without any regard whatsoever to the ESRB and let the chips fall where they may. Plotting out your rating before you've even started pre-production seems ridiculous.

Well, avoiding an AO would seem wise given that Steam apparently does not carry AO games. If that isn't the case then screw it. The bottom line is not limiting the devs with a rating designed for broad appeal.

As has been discussed countless times, there's nothing in AO that would be necessary for WL2. Unless you're looking for sex scenes in pointillistic detail, M covers everything. What's the deal with all this AO lobbying?

[Lucky]

Hopefully inXile will make the game without any regard whatsoever to the ESRB and let the chips fall where they may. Plotting out your rating before you've even started pre-production seems ridiculous.

Well, avoiding an AO would seem wise given that Steam apparently does not carry AO games. If that isn't the case then screw it. The bottom line is not limiting the devs with a rating designed for broad appeal.

As has been discussed countless times, there's nothing in AO that would be necessary for WL2. Unless you're looking for sex scenes in pointillistic detail, M covers everything. What's the deal with all this AO lobbying?

If you read what I wrote then you would know that I said that I am for an M rating unless the devs feel it is constraining their vision. How is that "lobbying for an AO rating" and how does that relate solely to depictions of graphic sex? Again, read the ESRB guidelines.

[homeslice82]

If you read what I wrote then you would know that I said that I am for an M rating unless the devs feel it is constraining their vision. How is that "lobbying for an AO rating" and how does that relate solely to depictions of graphic sex? Again, read the ESRB guidelines.

Show me an AO game that doesn't have that rating because of hardcore depictions of sex. Get ready... go.

Actually, here--I'll do it for you: Manhunt 2. Only one ever, and that was largely due to political reasons. But, in any case, I don't think I want WL2 to be torture porn. Do you?

[Lucky]

If you read what I wrote then you would know that I said that I am for an M rating unless the devs feel it is constraining their vision. How is that "lobbying for an AO rating" and how does that relate solely to depictions of graphic sex? Again, read the ESRB guidelines.

Show me an AO game that doesn't have that rating because of hardcore depictions of sex. Get ready... go.

Actually, here--I'll do it for you: Manhunt 2. Only one ever, and that was largely due to political reasons. But, in any case, I don't think I want WL2 to be torture porn. Do you?

I have no idea and I don't care. As far as i know, I have never played an AO game. As I said, I think an M rating can work. However, the point is not that this should be this or that. My point is the Dev team should be free to give us their vision of the wasteland without a filter. After all this game is for adults, not kids. If the Dev team sees no use for heads exploding like blood sausages or anything else that might bring on the AO then that is their call not mine.

Here is an idea, why don't you post a reply with what you would like to see instead of nitpicking at what others would like and if you want a Teen rating then just say so.

[Ekaros]

I think no one is for making game to AO rating. That's just as stupid as making it to a Teen rating. I prefer to make it to best possible with all the themes and mechanics to fit Wasteland. If it results in AO, so be it, but limiting devs to M is just as bad.

For devs in nutshell:
Don't work towards any rating, just make best possible game without caring what rating it will be.

[Delicieuxz]

AO has been said by some devs to be a death sentence for sales. I don't think there's anything that could only be done in an AO product which would really add to the game. That is, unless wonton drug use is considered AO. I'd like to see psychedelic screen effects from getting messed up.

[Ekaros]

AO has been said by some devs to be a death sentence for sales. I don't think there's anything that could only be done in an AO product which would really add to the game. That is, unless wonton drug use is considered AO. I'd like to see psychedelic screen effects from getting messed up.

But game is already sold, so it doesn't matter anymore ;D We have possibility of making a game here without limitations which come from avoiding AO. I think it should be taken.

[Mandemon]

AO has been said by some devs to be a death sentence for sales. I don't think there's anything that could only be done in an AO product which would really add to the game. That is, unless wonton drug use is considered AO. I'd like to see psychedelic screen effects from getting messed up.

But game is already sold, so it doesn't matter anymore ;D We have possibility of making a game here without limitations which come from avoiding AO. I think it should be taken.

Except it's not "sold". It's been funded. Right now, they have only covered the funding. What about extra? What about profits? What about possibility getting new fans by having them buy the game? Not everyone is ready to pay for game that might come out in a year.

Making game AO for sake of AO is bad idea. Make game AO if it needs it, but don't make it AO just to be "edgy".

[Irx]

W2 graphics are probably going to be rather simple, with text instead of cutscenes etc. - I can't see anything like that getting AO despite whatever themes and situations its going to explore.

[Woolfe]

OK so the as far as I understand it, Steam works off the ESRB rating.

This is the definition of the ESRB ratings.
ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.
MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

And to expand on this

Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity
Fantasy Violence - Violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life
Intense Violence - Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons and depictions of human injury and death
Sexual Content - Non-explicit depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including partial nudity
Strong Sexual Content - Explicit and/or frequent depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including nudity

I can't see any reason for "Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity" though there may be "Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity".
I can't see any reason for "Strong Sexual Content" thought there may be "Sexual Content".
There might be "Intense Violence" but it will more likely be "Fantasy violence" and it will probably not be "prolonged"

So the only reason I can see for an "AO" rating might be "intense violence" and honestly I can't see any reason why WL2 would have more intense violence than many of the FPS's out there at the moment.

I think an M rating is more likely.