The case for a sequel

[Brother None]

Tactics isn't even a party-based game. Goddammit.

Well yeah. And they're not looking at Tactics for ideas on PC+NPC party management, which will be much different, but odds are very high combat will play at a lot like the squad-based combat of Tactics, JA2, SS, etc., but that is only a consideration for combat.

[krellen]

odds are very high combat will play at a lot like the squad-based combat of Tactics, JA2, SS, etc., but that is only a consideration for combat.

That is a deal breaker for me. Tactics combat is too long. I will groan when combat comes up if the combat is like in Tactics.

Should I just go give all my money to Jordan Weisman instead?

[Brother None]

That is a deal breaker for me. Tactics combat is too long. I will groan when combat comes up if the combat is like in Tactics.

Yeah, I told Fargo the same when he brought up Fallout: Tactics. The pacing of that combat system isn't very good. But JA2 and Tactics were all about the combat. While Wasteland 2 will have a similar playstyle and camera in combat, its pacing, balance and focus on combat will be completely different.

Should I just go give all my money to Jordan Weisman instead?

Sure, if you like.

[Infinitron]

Should I just go give all my money to Jordan Weisman instead?

Why, will Shadowrun Returns have Wasteland/Bard's Tale style combat?

[krellen]

Should I just go give all my money to Jordan Weisman instead?

Why, will Shadowrun Returns have Wasteland/Bard's Tale style combat?

No, but he also isn't promising a sequel to a game that had it, either.

[Infinitron]

Should I just go give all my money to Jordan Weisman instead?

Why, will Shadowrun Returns have Wasteland/Bard's Tale style combat?

No, but he also isn't promising a sequel to a game that had it, either.

In that case, since not having that sort of combat isn't a dealbreaker for you in general, I would recommend that you reduce your pledge to Wasteland 2, to punish it for insufficient purism, but not cancel it altogether.

[Brother None]

No, but he also isn't promising a sequel to a game that had it, either.

Well, he isn't promising a lot so far, unless I missed some information on the title. Do you expect it to be a sequel as Fallout 2 was to Fallout? If so, odds are pretty good it'll disappoint you too.

Your expectations...might not be completely reasonable, to put it bluntly.

[krellen]

Your expectations...might not be completely reasonable, to put it bluntly.

They're exactly as reasonable as everyone that wants a hardcore survival simulator, or a deep tactical combat game, or any of a dozen other suggestions that have been made.

[GemmaReborn]

Brian Fargo's latest update on Crackstarter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... HEgVIMS9pQ

I was genuinely excited and proud when he mentions combat on the closer maps. i.e. original Wasteland. All the planets seem to be aligned Krellen.

[Infinitron]

Brian Fargo's latest update on Crackstarter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... HEgVIMS9pQ

I was genuinely excited and proud when he mentions combat on the closer maps. i.e. original Wasteland. All the planets seem to be aligned Krellen.

??? That's not how the original Wasteland was.

Also, "Crackstarter"? That sounds illegal.

[GemmaReborn]

His examples around the 4:15 mark are pretty much how the original was. He didn't go into great detail but as far as camera perspective and look it is very similar to the original. You had the larger world map and then you had the smaller zone map when you entered a town or location. Combat may end up being the most changed element but now we can only speculate.

Crackstarter is my new name for Kickstarter. It is very addicitive....PotatochipStarter...just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[Infinitron]

The battles in Wasteland didn't have a camera perspective at all...

[Brother None]

His examples around the 4:15 mark are pretty much how the original was. He didn't go into great detail but as far as camera perspective and look it is very similar to the original.

The original had text-based combat with an enemy drawing. Wasteland 2 will have an isometric camera identical for in-town exploration and combat. It's not the same at all.

They're exactly as reasonable as everyone that wants a hardcore survival simulator, or a deep tactical combat game, or any of a dozen other suggestions that have been made.

Well, sure, and those people are free to pull their money when they find out it's not a hardcore survival simulator. I'm not sure what your point is though. So you're saying you are being unreasonable?

My expectations are for the sequel to have the same goals, design philosophies and atmosphere/setting as its predecessor. Your expectations are that sequels should remain functionally identical to their predecessor no matter how much time has passed.

[knux81]

Tactics isn't even a party-based game. Goddammit.

Well...you did have a squad. Though it was pretty much centered around your main character.
I just want the old style combat with the window showing enemy type and having the menus like the old Wasteland

Heck even if it was like the old dungeon crawlers with you having to click on a weapon to have them attack... O.o
Legends of Grimrock does it that way and does it well.

I don't want to have to walk four people around a map, put them in position, have to worry about posture and THEN attack.
Then sit through 10 minutes+ of the computer doing the same for all the NPCs.

I wanna be able to just hit "close" "attack" and be told the story of what my weapons are doing to those people.
I might like a graphical representation of what was happening...But I like using my imagination occasionally.

On a side note - I've already reduced my backing on this as there seems to be some design elements creeping in that I'm not too fond of. I'm still backing just at a considerably lesser amount.

[GemmaReborn]

The battles in Wasteland didn't have a camera perspective at all...

Yes. This was the encounter interface which was an overlay of the area map. Let's not forget the area map where you could split the party and move around. Move up your melee guys while firing with the ranged party members, etc,.

I certainly hope they keep some resemblance to the originals combat window which i loved but there isn't enough details in the combat answer to really have a vision how this will be handled. I really expect to see a fallout-esque graphical representation on the area map, but that is just speculating. I also expect to see verbose combat text and portraits in there as well. Brian does mention not making combat so tactical that you get bogged down. Which goes well with the original. Combat was fun but it wasn't long and thankfully cause you fought a lot.

And where the hell is Snake Vargas!?

[Infinitron]

Well, for some people here, it's obviously a bit more than just an overlay.

[GemmaReborn]

Well, for some people here, it's obviously a bit more than just an overlay.

It was a bit more for all of us that grew up having played it. I feel you. All I tried to show was confirmation of some core design elements from the original are confirmed! This bodes well. This early in the process all we can do is speculate and hope. My faith is unshaken and renewed.

[Infinitron]

Well, for some people here, it's obviously a bit more than just an overlay.

It was a bit more for all of us that grew up having played it. I feel you. All I tried to show was confirmation of some core design elements from the original are confirmed! This bodes well. This early in the process all we can do is speculate and hope. My faith is unshaken and renewed.

Oh, I'm not talking about me.

[Vryheid]

Right, krellen, cause the devs certainly should go against the wishes of 90% of their playerbase and eliminate any chance of their game being profitable just so you can get your nostalgia fix. The fact is that the flaws in the original game engine and mechanics are so blatant and so easily averted that Inxile would be doing a disservice to the series by NOT massively improving upon them.

[paultakeda]

I can see where krellen's coming from but I am not so pessimistic. We know WL2 will have visual combat, most likely isometric, still unknown if the tiles are square or hex or even vector, but it will be visual. That's a done deal, we're not getting Wasteland's phase based text combat.

How the phased and/or turn-based mechanic will work is also up in the air as now you have a lot more tactics involved with just simple movement on a combat map.

Movement alone has made combat more tactical and movement alone will lengthen combat. I'd look more to how just moving a party member on the map will introduce enough tactics without going into lying prone, crouching, etc. I've mentioned this elsewhere, but that behavior should automatically be taken into account by looking at the character's skill set and the tile context (a character with no gun skill would not think to crouch and aim, for instance, no matter what the player wants). Animation would then depict accordingly.

Doing this exploits the skill system that is the core mechanic for this CRPG and removes the battle micromanagement inherent in a tactical combat game, but is still dependent on the movement commands the player gives the characters.