Quality voice acting for major bosses/characters!

[dehen]

I think if you focused on strong mod support, then voiced a few key characters (thereby giving the engine a voice mechanism) then the modding community might handle the rest. I figure that these kickstarter games are going to grow up with a dedicated community who'd love to get involved in that sort of thing.

For me, unique character art/models makes for much deeper immersion than voice acting. Also a large world that I can explore for hours on end is key for me in a sandbox game. It's a personal preference, but if the voice acting was going to cut into the world or art budgets, I would take a pass.

[Grotesque]

Seriously, you can really tell which gamers started playing after the year 2000 and which ones started before.

Are you ready to bet your life on it?

Fully voiced RPG's, while entertaining, are usually very shallow

Its strange how the word "some" in capital letters eluded you

Voice acting takes a tremendous amount of time and money.

Tremendous is such a big word. But how much resources it would take for some voice acting for like... 21 talking heads?
Because I see you talk like you know all the insides of voice acting.

The point is, games don't need voice acting to be good or memorable.

Oh really? Just tell me how Harold in Fallout was not made memorable by voice acting. And the list can go on

That's what people thought about films and then The Artist was released.

And that was such a masterpiece...

[DandyA]

I won't slam the idea; great voice acting sure won't take anything away!

However, as a lover of evocative prose, I would be more than satisfied with some lines of clever text 'neath a kick-ass portrait.

EDIT: I would rather have highly customizable vestments than voice acting.

[Woolfe]

This is exactly why there needs to be a new poll made around this issue after kickstarter ends. While some of you say "I would rather not have money spent on any voice acting, if they can rather be spent on improving game in other areas". Well yes cash can be spent on making even more NPC's and areas, or spent on more in-game artwork or prettier graphics. But I would rather have more fleshed out characters with _some_ voice acting, than another cave or two to explore. It's all a matter of opinion, some people here may deem "prettier artwork" as the best way to spend extra funds, and some don't.

Whereas I, respectfully, completely and utterly disagree with you. I'd rather have better ambient sound than voice acting.

<Snip>
Voice acting, done right, makes great characters into legendary characters. I believe that if they choose to do voice acting in _some_ capacity, and with Brian Fargo and Chris Avellone on board, I believe they have enough experience to tell apart shitty voice acting from quality voice acting.

To tell you the honest truth, I cannot think of a single character in a game where the voice acting made it for me. Not to say the voice acting didn't help to bring the character more... um... "character"... but the core elements of the character were the writing and the dialogue, not how the dialogue was presented.
And whilst I too believe Brian and Chris could do that, I'd rather see them focused on other stuff.

I swear, I can have whole WL2 community against me on this subject, I'm still gonna push for it and hope for the best.

Good for you. I shall be sure to oppose you where possible.

As I said, I would rather the money/resources be spent on other stuff, but if there is room in the budget and it doesn't impinge on anything else, then go for it.

[Gizmo]

Fallout had, as previously mentioned by another poster over 20 awesomely voice characters, and with a similar budget...

But that all changed ~radically~ after Toy Story was released; you could not get even those same performers to work for the same rate anymore. (Ignoring for the moment that Frank Welker is a legend and doing feature film work now instead of voicing Megatron, Fred (from Scooby Doo), and John Maxon. )


Once the voice talents began seeing the profits made on Toy Story, the price went up ~way up.

[Drool]

Furthermore, given an ample enough budget, I would consider it a standard element of a game and it should be present.

We don't have an ample budget. It's like a 10 million dollar movie. Not small enough to really be indy any more, but not enough to have a bunch of A list actors and whiz-bang special effects. They won't be rifling their couch for spare change, but it's not a AAA production.


Personally, the most memorable voice acting I've ever heard in a video game was in Impossible Mission.

[Phocoena]

Furthermore, given an ample enough budget, I would consider it a standard element of a game and it should be present.

We don't have an ample budget. It's like a 10 million dollar movie. Not small enough to really be indy any more, but not enough to have a bunch of A list actors and whiz-bang special effects. They won't be rifling their couch for spare change, but it's not a AAA production.


Personally, the most memorable voice acting I've ever heard in a video game was in Impossible Mission.

Ahhhh another visitor. Stay a while... Stay forever!!

I would like to have at least some voice acting done for key characters, just a few lines here and there, to provide some flavour to the game. I feel like after playing games with at least this level of voice acting for the last 15 years, anything less might turn the game a bit stale after a while.

[abdiel420]

Are you ready to bet your life on it?

Nope.

Its strange how the word "some" in capital letters eluded you

Name me one fully voiced RPG that is as in depth as BG, Fallout 1/2, etc. as far as dialogue options and impact on story.

Tremendous is such a big word. But how much resources it would take for some voice acting for like... 21 talking heads?
Because I see you talk like you know all the insides of voice acting.

It depends. How many lines of dialogue are we talking? 21 different actors? 18 with some doubling up? 10? 7? What sort of studio are they working with? Do they have one in house or do they have to rent a space? Do they have someone on staff who can work a sound board? Someone for post-production? None of which matters if voicing the characters limits player choices.

Oh really? Just tell me how Harold in Fallout was not made memorable by voice acting. And the list can go on

Are you telling me that an FEV mutant with a tree growing out of his head is only memorable because of his voice?

That's what people thought about films and then The Artist was released.

And that was such a masterpiece...

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but it was quite an amazing film.

[krellen]

Tremendous is such a big word. But how much resources it would take for some voice acting for like... 21 talking heads?

A no-name, SAG-approved voice actor costs $190/hr. If you try to get actual known talent, the price quickly skyrockets. "Top talent" can demand - and receive - tens of thousands of even hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a few hours' work.

[astateofmind]

Name me one fully voiced RPG that is as in depth as BG, Fallout 1/2, etc. as far as dialogue options and impact on story.

No one said fully voiced, surprise. And the ones you enumerate HAD great voices in the games. And those voices contributed a lot to the whole of the game, make no mistake.

It depends. How many lines of dialogue are we talking? 21 different actors? 18 with some doubling up? 10? 7? What sort of studio are they working with? Do they have one in house or do they have to rent a space? Do they have someone on staff who can work a sound board? Someone for post-production? None of which matters if voicing the characters limits player choices.

Right, they will do the high quality music/sounds/effects in the kitchen ... why didn't i think about it!?

Are you telling me that an FEV mutant with a tree growing out of his head is only memorable because of his voice?

Not ONLY because of his voice, but his voice helped tremendous on the effect. Make an imagination exercise and picture Harold without the voice. Would it still be great? Of course. Will it have the same impact? No way.


You totally missed the point.

[abdiel420]

No one said fully voiced, surprise. And the ones you enumerate HAD great voices in the games. And those voices contributed a lot to the whole of the game, make no mistake.

Perhaps you are right and I just misunderstood some of the other's posts. And I have no doubt that the talking heads in the game I mentioned added to the character. My point isn't that voice acting is bad. I'm worried that they will sacrifice dialogue and story for voice acting, as others have stated it can get up into the tens of thousands of dollars just for the actors, and hundreds of thousands for known talent. If that cuts into the budget and subsequently shortens the story or options during conversation, then it's not worth it.

Right, they will do the high quality music/sounds/effects in the kitchen ... why didn't i think about it!?

As if that somehow answers my questions. Just because they have a space to record and master music doesn't mean it is set up for voice acting. And if it is, is it their studio or are they renting it? If it's theirs and they can do all sound recording and master there, that is a lot cheaper then renting a studio specifically for voice acting, or extending their stay at a rented studio to include voice acting.

Not ONLY because of his voice, but his voice helped tremendous on the effect. Make an imagination exercise and picture Harold without the voice. Would it still be great? Of course. Will it have the same impact? No way.

That is quite the leap in logic. How can you possibly know how memorable a character is with no voice if he has always had a voice? Personally, there are plenty of characters I remember because of dialogue or their exploits and they never had voices, so it is not hard for me to imagine that he would have been just as memorable without a voice.

You totally missed the point.

Pretty sure the point was that partial voice acting was better than none, and I agreed as long as including it didn't affect the length of the story or the complexity of dialogue. Some people disagree and think voice acting is more important than good writing and an in depth plot/conversation system. Is there something else that I am missing?

[Grotesque]

Tremendous is such a big word. But how much resources it would take for some voice acting for like... 21 talking heads?

A no-name, SAG-approved voice actor costs $190/hr. If you try to get actual known talent, the price quickly skyrockets. "Top talent" can demand - and receive - tens of thousands of even hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a few hours' work.

http://www.pop-gamer.com/2011/11/an-exclusive-interview-with-logan-cunningham-narrator-of-bastion/

enjoy the article

[krellen]

Tremendous is such a big word. But how much resources it would take for some voice acting for like... 21 talking heads?

A no-name, SAG-approved voice actor costs $190/hr. If you try to get actual known talent, the price quickly skyrockets. "Top talent" can demand - and receive - tens of thousands of even hundreds of thousands of dollars for just a few hours' work.

http://www.pop-gamer.com/2011/11/an-exclusive-interview-with-logan-cunningham-narrator-of-bastion/

enjoy the article

I didn't see anything about money in that article. How is this relevant to the conversation?

[astateofmind]

Pretty sure the point was that partial voice acting was better than none, and I agreed as long as including it didn't affect the length of the story or the complexity of dialogue. Some people disagree and think voice acting is more important than good writing and an in depth plot/conversation system. Is there something else that I am missing?

Voice acting, good voice acting ... is irelevant without good writing and deep plot/conversation which is the most important part in a RPG. But i rather have a smaller world and less side quests with some voice acting than a diluted, un-necessary pulled story just to make it longer and bigger

I'd rather read a Stephen King novella than a Sandra Brown trilogy

[abdiel420]

Pretty sure the point was that partial voice acting was better than none, and I agreed as long as including it didn't affect the length of the story or the complexity of dialogue. Some people disagree and think voice acting is more important than good writing and an in depth plot/conversation system. Is there something else that I am missing?

Voice acting, good voice acting ... is irelevant without good writing and deep plot/conversation which is the most important part in a RPG. But i rather have a smaller world and less side quests with some voice acting than a diluted, un-necessary pulled story just to make it longer and bigger

I'd rather read a Stephen King novella than a Sandra Brown trilogy

And I would rather read A Song of Ice and Fire. A perfect example of a complex and engaging story that also has length and breadth. If the writers can't handle a long and complex story (and I think they can), then go ahead and throw in voice acting if there is room in the budget. But if they are going to go bare bones on the acting to stay in budget, they might as well forget it and bump up graphics or something else. A terrible reading of dialogue can have just as big of an impact as a great reading, just depends on what you want the game to be remembered for.

[excession]

I'm all for partial voice acting, as I feel it is an affordable way to add color to important characters, and helps to set the tone for a person's attitude.

As for the costs involved, I suspect they are likely to be less than people anticipate.
There is nothing written in stone which says you must use somebody who is an expensive celebrity voice actor, nor even somebody who is well known. The most important factor is that they are appropriate for the role and deliver the lines well.
Hell, there are stage and radio-drama actors out there who would do it as a side project, often to help pay for their next meal.
Most of them rely on good delivery and characterization to compensate for lack of set complexity and/or special effects. The important factors for voice acting, beyond basic talent selection, are vetting and character coaching by the writers, so as to ensure that it's done right.

So why, you may well ask, does voice acting sound so bad in so many games?
Simple: Control over line delivery for VA in video games is almost always handled by the publisher. More often than not, the game writers aren't even brought in to advise on tone, where emphasis should be put, or decide whether the delivery fits the character being performed.

That will not be the case with Wasteland 2, which means you need not rely so heavily on luck, or the talent of an expensive actor who has prior experience working with film or video games.

[astateofmind]

And I would rather read A Song of Ice and Fire. A perfect example of a complex and engaging story that also has length and breadth.

How many years took the author to write that that "book"?

If the writers can't handle a long and complex story (and I think they can), then go ahead and throw in voice acting if there is room in the budget. But if they are going to go bare bones on the acting to stay in budget, they might as well forget it and bump up graphics or something else. A terrible reading of dialogue can have just as big of an impact as a great reading, just depends on what you want the game to be remembered for.

Well, i'm playing atm FO1, and graphics are not that much an issue (i play it with the high res patch) but talking heads are really to be remembered.

[abdiel420]

I'm all for partial voice acting, as I feel it is an affordable way to add color to important characters, and helps to set the tone for a person's attitude.

As for the costs involved, I suspect they are likely to be less than people anticipate.
There is nothing written in stone which says you must use somebody who is an expensive celebrity voice actor, nor even somebody who is well known. The most important factor is that they are appropriate for the role and deliver the lines well.
Hell, there are stage and radio-drama actors out there who would do it as a side project, often to help pay for their next meal.
Most of them rely on good delivery and characterization to compensate for lack of set complexity and/or special effects. The important factors for voice acting, beyond basic talent selection, are vetting and character coaching by the writers, so as to ensure that it's done right.

So why, you may well ask, does voice acting sound so bad in so many games?
Simple: Control over line delivery for VA in video games is almost always handled by the publisher. More often than not, the game writers aren't even brought in to advise on tone, where emphasis should be put, or decide whether the delivery fits the character being performed.

That will not be the case with Wasteland 2, which means you need not rely so heavily on luck, or the talent of an expensive actor who has prior experience working with film or video games.

You're right, they can use actors who aren't in SAG and who don't have much or any voice acting experience. The issue is not just cost. From experience I can tell you that acting on the stage or film and doing voice over work are vastly different skills. This is why you end up with over-dramatic voice acting. Or worse, flat voice acting because the person is used to using their body and face to convey emotion and intensity. I'll agree with you that it can be done, but how many actors are we talking here? I believe Grotesque threw out the number 21. Do you have any idea how long it would take to find 21 solid actors who aren't in the guild? Time, money, the possibility of dialogue being ruined by bad delivery, I just can't see voice acting as a positive thing. I may be over critical, but I would much rather leave some things to my imagination. But again, I'm not necessarily against it as long as it doesn't affect story depth or player choice.

How many years took the author to write that that "book"?

Why did you put book in quotes? Are you implying it isn't a book? And we were using books as metaphors, I'm not suggesting Wasteland 2 be as long or complex as a 7+ part novel series.

Well, i'm playing atm FO1, and graphics are not that much an issue (i play it with the high res patch) but talking heads are really to be remembered.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the argument that a game can't be memorable if it doesn't have voice acting is ridiculous.

[astateofmind]

Why did you put book in quotes? Are you implying it isn't a book? And we were using books as metaphors, I'm not suggesting Wasteland 2 be as long or complex as a 7+ part novel series.

Because there are 7 books, not one. And only to take the first book in the serie, do you realize that it took 5 years to write the first book? Do you realize that the story must be ready way long before they actually finish the game? Maybe they have like few months to come up with a good story.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the argument that a game can't be memorable if it doesn't have voice acting is ridiculous.

Again you read but you don't understand

Nobody said it can't be memorable without voice acting, i have no idea where from you picked that up. The consensus is that voice acting adds a lot of things to be remembered.

[abdiel420]

Again, the books were being used as a metaphor. Please read the entire post or at least don't take things out of context. And I picked up the "It can't be memorable without voice acting" from the multiple posts of "Voice acting makes it more memorable." If you admit the game is memorable without voice acting, then why do we need voice acting to make it 'more' memorable?