Trouble ahead - Wasteland vs Fallout fans?

[dukem73]

I think, no matter which camp you belong to, being open minded about Wasteland2 will make the game better for you.
I am looking forward to the fact, that you will have more control over the party than in Fallout (Ian drove me nuts running through all that mobs getting him self killed all the time).

[Svetlovska]

@krellen: thanks for that, that is helpful. I'm somewhat reassured. I don't think there's anything in your list I would baulk at (though my own personal taste is for a black humour which sits within a 'plausible' game world - I'm thinking about the secret of what *really* went into those fast food skewers in Fallout...) Certainly, I think clean water would count for a lot, and certainly, there were precedents for un-devasted locations in *all the Fallouts (even the 'Eden' in Fallout 3). Seems like we might be able to rub along after all.

[krellen]

I'm thinking about the secret of what *really* went into those fast food skewers in Fallout

Needles served Hobo Dogs. The name was not a euphemism.

[Rzarkrusz Rowa]

You can't preserve the tactical/skirmish hybrid combat scale which is so characteristic for Wasteland when moving to a Fallout-style 3-d view.

Have you ever played Fallout Tactics? Tactical combat across huge maps in an isometric game. The maps were so big enough to drive a jeep across for transportation.

Fallout Tactics doesn't have tactical combat. It has skirmish combat.

Tactical games:
Steel Panthers, Close Combat, Warhammer, Warhammer 40000. Basic unit - vehicle, squad.
Skirmish games:
Necromunda, Mordheim, Laser Squad, Jagged Alliance 2. Basic unit - individual.

What *must* Wasteland 2 have, that a post Fallout gamer will hate so much, since we can agree that there will be nothing of the FO style here

Having to put in thought and effort - non-combat interaction through active use of skills, items and attributes, writing keywords.
Different scale with a different combat system, etc.

[Windir]

I can see why the OP is "afraid" of bad influences.
I personlly played Wasteland, a bunch of AD&D (SSI) games, and more long before getting my hands on Fallout.
For me Fallout 1 and 2 was the next big thing. it had all the great humor and feel of the old Wasteland, plus it had darn good graphics.
When Fallout 3 came out I wanted to cry. Not of joy, but because I felt like someone had raped my eyesocket with a slow moving never oiled chainsaw with dull teeth. Nothing remained of the Fallout and Wasteland feeling I so much craved.
Fallout: New Vegas game me part of my soul back, but it still felt wrong as it was an FPS.

I really don't know where I am going with this, so I'll just end this post with saying;
I place my trust in Brian Fargo and his merry men to give a game with the good old feeling of Wasteland (and Fallout, since Fallout is Wasteland in my eyes). I only want my soul back. "Brian, you're my only hope", as one of my earlier (make believe) girlfriends said...

[Drool]

When Fallout 3 came out I wanted to cry. Not of joy, but because I felt like someone had raped my eyesocket with a slow moving never oiled chainsaw with dull teeth.

Hyperbole, it's the best thing ever!

[BlackGauntlet]

I'm thinking about the secret of what *really* went into those fast food skewers in Fallout

Needles served Hobo Dogs. The name was not a euphemism.

I'm actually more concerned about which *part* of the hobo are they serving that is... y'know.... already conveniently shaped like that...

[BlackGauntlet]

There was an Arcanum 2?

Shut up and take my money!

[alanschu]

You can't preserve the tactical/skirmish hybrid combat scale which is so characteristic for Wasteland when moving to a Fallout-style 3-d view.

Have you ever played Fallout Tactics? Tactical combat across huge maps in an isometric game. The maps were so big enough to drive a jeep across for transportation.

Fallout Tactics doesn't have tactical combat. It has skirmish combat.

Tactical games:
Steel Panthers, Close Combat, Warhammer, Warhammer 40000. Basic unit - vehicle, squad.
Skirmish games:
Necromunda, Mordheim, Laser Squad, Jagged Alliance 2. Basic unit - individual.

The definition you provides pertains to the very specific application of "war gaming" which neither Wasteland nor Fallout belong to. They came up with a very specific set of rules so that fellow war gamers could ascertain exactly what level of scope the game is attempting to cover. I am a war gamer and I could go on further if necessary, but I'll spare people the wall of text.

The actual definition of tactical is what is used when people discuss "tactical combat." In that the player has the specific control to manipulate the tactics by which the combatants employ. Jagged Alliance 2, Laser Squad, and Fallout are all games that contain tactical combat.

Furthermore, this term is a part of general video gaming nomenclature. It's why there's no point in nitpicking that an "RTS" game is actually a game more about tactics than strategy.

[alcedine]

What *must* Wasteland 2 have, that a post Fallout gamer will hate so much

From what I can tell from a lot of posts? The colour green, for starters. Not ugly, rancid, radioactive goo green, but healthy, thriving, plant-life green.

It must have settlements spared completely from nuclear devastation.

It must have Rangers striving to make a difference in the world, not just surviving.

...

I don't have a problem with any of those things. Actually, it seems bizarre that they would be a problem. I entered this deal fully expecting the Wasteland universe, whatever that was (I've since worked out a rudimentary understanding of that game, and I'm not disappointed). I might prefer individual-based gameplay, but if a Wasteland game is group-based, its sequel is going to be group-based, and I'll just get used to it.

I backed Double Fine as well, though they were very vague about the game they're making (except that it is an adventure game), and for the same reasons. These people have made games in the past, I saw them, and they were good. Yeah, many here probably have a more pressing need for control (which I don't entirely understand -- one ostensibly pays someone else to make a game because this someone is better at it), but I doubt the universe is going to be a problem for any significant number of people, unless they go into it determined to hate it.

Our main point of disagreement is the graphics. I think 3D would work better. Couldn't say for sure without seeing showcases. Even if it were 2D top-down, I'd probably love it (I didn't have an issue with it in, say, Heroes 3).

What I'm saying is, I suspect that you're a bit paranoid about what's going to happen. I doubt Wasteland 2 will stray very far from the path it would have taken, had it evolved as a natural sequel in the absence of any Fallout game.

[Psyckosama]

I'm sponsoring this because I loved Fallout and it was the spiritual successor to Wasteland.

Now, I want something recognizable. I know I'm not getting Fallout, Beth sank that ship then looted it for all its worth. I just want a good game with a playing style that I feel worth the money I put into it. That means for me I want to see as much of fallout, true fallout, in the style as Wasteland. I did not pay for flat out remake of a 1980s game with only slightly updated graphics. I'm in it for a physical successor to one game and a spiritual successor to the other.

What I want is 3d maps with rotatable perspective. What I want is the ability to, depending on approach, have a solid roleplaying experience where you can really express your characters. What I want are multiple valid options for most actions. What I want is personality, and to feel like what I'm doing matters. I think this is what most people want.

Personally I'd rather have a single protagonist character with highly functioning support as it makes you feel like more of the story, but such is life.

I just am nervous because I put down what is to me a large amount of money on this and it will be very bitter pill indeed if I don't end up like the result.

[Tarhiel]

I'm a little tired of pointing it out, but 3D Top-Down is not the same thing as 2D Top-Down.
This:

Not This:

Technically those objects and character in the picture of the 2d one are at an angle being able to show more detail in a sense you can say that the objects are in an isometric perception (Basically, it isn't as top down as the 3d one)

The same cannot be said for the 3d one it is purely top down, not allowing you to see the objects in as much detail as they can be

Basically, it is unfair to show the 3d one (in the extreme of top down) because you aren't allowing the same amount of benefit from the 2d one as opposed to the 3d one

So, can somebody clearly explain to me, what kind of Top-Down POV will Wasteland 2 have?
The Fallout 1/2 POV? If yes, I would be happy, because that´s what I expected it to be.
Or there will be different one?

[Brother None]

So, can somebody clearly explain to me, what kind of Top-Down POV will Wasteland 2 have?
The Fallout 1/2 POV? If yes, I would be happy, because that´s what I expected it to be.

Yes. It'll have Fallout's isometric-like. But with the camera higher up. This is for the town and combat map.

[paultakeda]

So, can somebody clearly explain to me, what kind of Top-Down POV will Wasteland 2 have?
The Fallout 1/2 POV? If yes, I would be happy, because that´s what I expected it to be.

Yes. It'll have Fallout's isometric-like. But with the camera higher up. This is for the town and combat map.

I'm actually imagining the camera to be about the same distance as Diablo.

[suz]

I'm actually imagining the camera to be about the same distance as Diablo.

Can't see a crap in diablo though... Even without trying to snipe the mobs - some enemies charge you from outside the screen... I hope at least for a good view of pistol range

[Tarhiel]

So, can somebody clearly explain to me, what kind of Top-Down POV will Wasteland 2 have?
The Fallout 1/2 POV? If yes, I would be happy, because that´s what I expected it to be.

Yes. It'll have Fallout's isometric-like. But with the camera higher up. This is for the town and combat map.

Thanks for reply.Increasing my tier then (when it will be possible)