POLL: Cussing?

[SuAside]

As long as it fits the setting & doesn't break immersion, any level of cursing is fine. But it needs to be functional cussing, not just cussing for the hell of it or to prove it's a mature game (lol, as if you'd need cursing for that).

[War]

Poll is flawed; needs a re-do. Something like:

[1] Yes — but only if you can use cussing to good effect (e.g.: Full Metal Jacket, The Big Lebowski, Goodfellas etc.)

[2] No — if you're a bunch of no-talent hacks intent on giving us a 'DARK', 'MATURE' and 'GRITTY' experience.

[3] HELL YEAH, BRO! — I must have my 'DARK', 'MATURE' and 'GRITTY' experience! With plenty of hackneyed dialog & gratuitous cussing!

[4] No — I don't like cuss words.

Perhaps I've missed something; feel free to refine it.

[harborpirate]

Poll is flawed; needs a re-do. Something like:

[1] Yes — but only if you can use cussing to good effect (e.g.: Full Metal Jacket, The Big Lebowski, Goodfellas etc.)

[2] Keep it to a minimum— don't overuse them trying to give us a 'DARK', 'MATURE' and 'GRITTY' experience.

[3] HELL YEAH, BRO! — I must have my 'DARK', 'MATURE' and 'GRITTY' experience! With plenty of cussing!

[4] No — I don't like cuss words.

Perhaps I've missed something; feel free to refine it.

I think these modifications make the wording slightly less biased.

[Blackstang]

Use it to effect. Maybe a char who talks with nothing but. But using it all the time is just annoying and pointless. If you're going to use it all the time, and the poll is headed that way, then please give us an option to filter it out, especially if you're going to back it up with audio. I don't want to play the game on mute because I don't want my kids to hear non-stop cussing because I'm enjoying a game.

[Rhyzard]

I don't mind cussing, as long as it's done such that it fits the character. For instance, a hard, tough-as-nails survivor cussing? Sure. A genius, well-bred scientist cussing? Probably not....

[Thrin]

Base the cussing on the character just like it is found in most societies.

Some people swear far more than other people based on their backgrounds and social environments. A lot of time people swear in moments of pressure or stress because they cannot think of any other word to properly capture their sentiment at that time. Use swearing as it is used and not for the sake of swearing. In other words, don't just toss in a cuss or two because that's the mature thing to do. No, in that situation, that is extremely immature and childish to swear for the sole sake of swearing and it detracts from the maturity of the game. Unless, of course, you wish to design a game that is immature then, by all means, swear all the time.

Please take the time to develop Wasteland's own cursing lexicon. Start with whatever point the world gets destroyed and advance the language from there.

Using modern swear words in a future world bothers me. I find it jarring and inappropriate. On the other hand, if the game were set in modern society I would find it totally appropriate.

Some examples of where I've found cussing to have been done properly: The Spartacus TV series, the book and TV series Game of Thrones, the Wheel of Time books, the Shadowrun campaign books, and the modern Battlestar Gallatica series (including Caprica).

If you use world-appropriate swearing where it makes sense to and vary the level of it by character based on their conditions then I am all for it. If you do it for the sake of swearing or to hit some design criteria of X swear words per conversation then I am against it. If you use modern swearing verbiage then I am against it.

Come up with a world. Make the world seem real. Part of that is creating a lexicon that is world appropriate and is different from our own. Evolve and adapt language to help create the atmosphere.

[Sluggish]

Glad to see the poll weighing towards "salted".
I'd find it extremely hard to believe that the world coming to an end would cause people to watch their language.
Also, things like fake cursing such a Battlestar always come off as silly (and not the good kind) to me.

[riprjak]

I am surprised that there wasn't an option for 'appropriate to socio-economic antecendants of the speaker in question'.

I realise that 'cussing' is a more touchy issue in the US than most everywhere else, so this point may be overly subtle. Still, I would rather see 'appropriate' cussing rather than a question about how much should be there...

If they are the survivors of a redneck coal mining town in the middle of nowhere then there would be seven F#cks to every 12 S#it's and even a liberal C or two thrown in. It should be hard to actually work out what they are saying because their parents werent even adults with an education in the days before the apocalypse...

If they are descendants of surburbanites then they might drop an f bomb if you blew their leg off with a shotgun but would still apologise. Broadly they would talk about bathrooms and say gosh and damn and the occasional s#it, but more likely crap. Kids would think butt was a dirty word and arse was a misspelt donkey...

The local Amish clan would go bright red if you dropped a bolderdash in there...

The local christian extremists would treat words like evolution and science as swearing but drop f bombs all over the place when they thought people weren't watching...

Hopefully you see where this is going. Don't ask how much cussing should be in the dialog; write dialog that is appropriate to the history and situation of the speakers; regardless of what that dialog ends up. When we start transposing arbitrary morality upon any part of a story we end up with ultima, not wasteland.

You could always have an 'easily offended' switch in the options that procedurally replaced swearing with rainbows and kittens in the worst case.

Just my $0.02
err!
jak.

[Gennadios]

I think Fallout 2 went a bit overboard with this, for example. The level of cussing in Fallout 1 was fine.

Yeah, Fallout 1 level was a-ok. Which option on the poll would that fall into? I didnt know what to vote.

[Comrade Nightmare]

Cussing is a normal part of everyday dialog so use it as such. Just please don't make up your own cuss phrases - "milk drinker".

EDIT: It always makes me laugh when i see me how much of an actual issue cussing is there in the US.

[Drool]

"Milk drinker" was probably derived from the phrase "has milk in his veins" which means to be cowardly, weak, and easily (get ready for the pun) cowed. As far as invented insults go, you could do a lot worse.

[ffordesoon]

"Milk drinker" was probably derived from the phrase "has milk in his veins" which means to be cowardly, weak, and easily (get ready for the pun) cowed. As far as invented insults go, you could do a lot worse.

Yeah, "milk drinker" was fine. The meaning was clear from the context, both words of the term are real, and it sounded like an insult from another time and place. Much like "smoothskin", it's the right kind of fantasy slang. The annoying made-up terms in SF and fantasy are the ones that sound like they were made up solely to sound cool. I can't think of any curse words that fit the bill at the moment, but the repeated use of "fal'Cie" and "l'Cie" in Final Fantasy XIII nearly gave me an aneurysm.

[harold]

Cussing is imo a essential aspect of a post-apocalyptic world (depending on the respective person however). The original Wasteland-tone would do.

[phtmyr]

"Sprinkled throughout in dialog" sounds quite wrong, since everyone in the wasteland cussing time to time would be awkward. But I think I shouldn't take it literally.

Anyway, people do cuss. So if there's no cussing at all in the game it'd be unnatural. That being said I'm okay with any level of cussing as long as there is some. A nice believable RPG can be made without using strong language (Planescape: Torment) but there's tends to be some potential wasted in my opinion. Strong language also creates some opportunities for humor. It's wasteland and I think there bound be some people in the wasteland that are offensive, and has foul mouth.



Renesco in Fallout 2 is a well-educated, intelligent fellow and utilizes a impressive vocabulary yet he's so mean and misanthropic. See his dialogue file here: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NcRenesc.msg

He uses strong language but that doesn't make him less believable, in fact I think he's a very strong and well-constructed character. He can make you feel like a idiotic loser when talking to you. He doesn't actually use the words "fuck" or "shit" but it still is a good example for showing how strong language can be a important component for a character.

Also I assume there will be some thugs or bandits in the world of wasteland (I'm not totally familiar with Wasteland universe so I'm just guessing), it'd be weird if they talk nicely.

Also playable character should have complete freedom in his dialogue options. I'm not saying that I necessarily want to insult anybody in the game, but if someone pisses me off, I at least want to be able to be rude towards them. Another example from Fallout 2 on this:

What Jules says:

• Your CAR? You sure you parked it here? I ain't seen it.

Our responses:

• What, you suddenly gone BLIND? You see my FIST, mother fucker? You SEE it?!! Now tell me again you haven't seen my car'I fucking DARE you.
• Jules, if you don't tell me what happened to my car, I'll tell Family Wright YOU sold their son the Jet that killed him. You'll be dead within the hour. Talk.
• You SURE you haven't seen it, Jules?
• Yes, I'm SURE I parked it here. Any idea where it might be?
• All right then. I had some other questions'
• I better go look for it.

I think most people agrees on there's nothing wrong with cussing as long as dialogues crafted in a realistic and believable in the game's setting. People in nice small settlements would be talking nicely and would be apologizing for their involuntary derogatory remarks. Where's that wouldn't be the case in a poor town that's run by bandits and such. It's important that cuss words shouldn't randomly be distributed among all characters but there should be people who doesn't necessarily talk nicely.

[oneyedjohn]

I with the crowd who want some swearing, but not every other word form every cariter. ex. I don't mind of a raider ever other word is f***, but i would hate to see it from the major of a town. now the major may swear if something bothers him, but not in every day conversation.

[elotsip]

If its audio I would like to have a setting to turn it off. If i'm paying and I have family over or kids around I dont want to subject them to the foul language. If its just me I don't really care.

[alcedine]

None of the options in the poll really work for me. I think it should be left to the writers. If it makes sense for the character to use foul language, then by all means, use it.

I'll have to second that.

It seems absurd to set artificial limits to dialogue. I don't care what words the writers use, I just want them to use those words well. Someone mentioned Renesco and Myron; those characters do a good job of illustrating what I'm talking about. Also, this, and this.

Swearing seems to be predominantly construed to mean liberal application of one single word "fuck" throughout. I don't get why that would be. I enjoyed most of the writing in Fallout 1 and 2. These guys didn't mistake swearing for substance back then, so I don't expect them to do that now.

[clippedwolf]

There is a difference between vulgar and obscene language. I think common use of vulgarities would fit the tone of the world. F-bombs and and the C-word should be used carefully, they aren't tasteful but can fit in very well in the right situation.

[BMF]

Swearing cussing and profanity fit very well in a post apocaliptic setting but still need to be used in the right context and to sound right when woven into sentances and fit with the charicter thats saying them. Also no swears should be off limits if some notoriously violent and obscene pimp gets angry at one of his hookers it shouldnt be out of the question that he smacks her and calls her a loopy cunt.

[solaris32]

The more desperate a person's situation is, the more they cuss. I'd imagine there'd be lots of cussing the wasteland.