Gay Characters

[ffordesoon]

If we're gonna have what OP wants for the sake of real-world immersion, let's also include homophobes and gay-killers whom are now no longer stopped by any legal bodies to do whatever they want.

Of course, the rapists (both male & female), pedophiles, cannibals, mad scientists, drug-dealers, slave-drivers, racists and suicide cults should all exist without any judicial system to keep them in check too. Spread the hate!

That said, this is where the Rangers come in... to encourage the chaos, to promote a cause or to mete out their brand of justice.

I feel like I'm agreeing to some hidden agenda here, but I actually completely agree.

[Tagaziel]

Actually, BlackGauntlet, that's brilliant. Consider Wasteland suffering a series of attacks by Mushroom Cloud fanatics driven by religious fervor that dials back rebuilding efforts at least a decade, opening up a can of worms in the form of hate-driven folk no longer kept in check by local authorities, who start to deal out their own brand of justice, in the way you picture.

Sounds great!

[Gamma]

If we're gonna have what OP wants for the sake of real-world immersion, let's also include homophobes and gay-killers whom are now no longer stopped by any legal bodies to do whatever they want.

Of course, the rapists (both male & female), pedophiles, cannibals, mad scientists, drug-dealers, slave-drivers, racists and suicide cults should all exist without any judicial system to keep them in check too. Spread the hate!

That said, this is where the Rangers come in... to encourage the chaos, to promote a cause or to mete out their brand of justice.

Oh, this would be my kind of game! We all are animals and psychos by nature, when laws and restrictions disappear it's so much easier to lose control over yourself. Let's show this in that game.

[Lanatir]

Well. I know a lot of people, including myself, who are in contact with the S/M Lifestyle. So, i DEMAND that this has to be in the game.
I also love playing soccer. I demand that soccer is in the game. Im sure there is a lot of people who love to play soccer, probably more then gay people, so from an immersion point there HAS to be soccer in this game. It would add to the diversity of the game, and i would feel very sad and oppressed if it didnt.

There also has to be Jehovas witnesses in the game. Im sure they would feel offended if left out. Same goes for people who like Bananas.

Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against gay people, on the contrary, i know quite a few myself, and i treat them just the way i treat everyone else, but what makes gay people so very special that they have to be mentioned particularly? Why not assume that it is totally NORMAL to be gay, without the need to mention it?

[VaultDwellnChick]

I would think in a post-apocalyptic atmosphere, being gay would be looked down upon just because of the low survival rate you would assume society would have. Maybe there should be some sinister group breeding slaves to repopulate the country.

[Elerond]

I would think in a post-apocalyptic atmosphere, being gay would be looked down upon just because of the low survival rate you would assume society would have. Maybe there should be some sinister group breeding slaves to repopulate the country.

To repopulate the country you need food production and one would to think that food production is one of the most major problems in post-apocalyptic atmosphere. So one thinks that child birth rate, infant death rate and amount of produced food would be in major role to determining how settlements relate towards people who don't produce childrens.

[Mort2]

iirc, in FO you could be forced into marriage straight or gay and there was some mention of male sex slaves. I really dont see any problem with homosexuality in W2 or any place for that matter, IF the writers find a good fit for this and not artificially add it and then highlight to show how "edgy" they are...

[Gamescook]

So why not do it? Give me one valid reason.

Why do it? Give me one valid reason.[/quote]

If gamers are going to keep going on and throwing a fit about how the latest film critic dissed their entire medium for being pointless, shallow, and without artistic merit, you don't get to also say you want your medium to remain boring, shallow, and without artisitc merit because 'ew gays'.

Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against gay people, on the contrary, i know quite a few myself, and i treat them just the way i treat everyone else, but what makes gay people so very special that they have to be mentioned particularly? Why not assume that it is totally NORMAL to be gay, without the need to mention it?

Because in most game worlds we are conveniently excised from existence and no one but us seems to think twice about it.

The problems with this are (in order):

1) It seems completely trivial and pointless. You're talking about an almost unnoticeable use of words that will have no effect on anything, so I'm annoyed that you somehow think this is important.

2) How many occurrences of this need there be? Just one? Or should it be representative, so, for every ten characters that mention a hetero spouse or date, there should be one homo? In which case, if there are only two or three such references in the game, they should all be hetero?

3) If it is, for instance, just one reference to homosexuality, and if it is so important to you and a community of gamers to see it, then the risk I see is the need for the game designers to shove the reference in your face, or else it might get overlooked and you'll be back here asking why there are no gay characters. And it's not that I am scared of seeing gay words or anything, it's just that a contrivance of any sort is almost always a detractor from otherwise enjoyable entertainment. I'll know it's being shoved in my face to make sure I notice it, I'll know it's being shoved in my face to satisfy the political egos of a group in the real world and not the game world, and that will annoy me and detract from the natural immersion of the story and gameplay, and this is completely regardless of the issue of homosexuality.

1) If it's so trivial and easy to include us, as you said, why NOT do it?

2) How many do there need to be? There need to be enough, silly goose.

3) If I have to spend every other waking hour of every year of my life having heterosexuality "shoved in my face", then I'm sure any manly man can put up with seeing the same-sex term "partner" once every other day. I'm sorry my demographic is so distracting to you and your gaming sessions. I'll just let you get back to playing as straight dudes, saving their princesses and girlfriends and getting rewarded with kisses and pixelated bikinis while the credits roll.

BN EDIT: Gamescook, please do not triple post. Also, please do not fully quote walls of text to add short replies.

[luckz]

Because in most game worlds we are conveniently excised from existence and no one but us seems to think twice about it.

You could at least try to come up with a counter-argument rather than just triple-posting. :/

[War]

Is this still raging on? Christ.

Bottom line: give the designers / writers carte blanche on this one. Otherwise the thread spirals off into infinite regress, sustained by even more subtle, under-the-radar trolling.

Or you can make a poll and see the option you don't agree with come out on top.

Carry on, gentlemen.

[Gungnir]

If there is no romance in the game the character can be whatever you imagine them to be.


I blame Bioware for this nonsense.

[ffordesoon]

Because in most game worlds we are conveniently excised from existence and no one but us seems to think twice about it.

You could at least try to come up with a counter-argument rather than just triple-posting. :/

That Gamescook's point is apparently not considered a valid counterargument says some very depressing things about some people here.

[luckz]

That Gamescook's point is apparently not considered a valid counterargument says some very depressing things about some people here.

He was asked how homosexuals are more worthy of being featured in a videogame than xyz other distinguishable subgroups of humanity. He didn't reply to that point. He only repeated what he said before. [In the process he also posted three times when posting once would have done]
That some people find it depressing that some people don't consider ignoring what somebody else says a valid form of discourse says some very depressing things about some people here.



'Irregardless' of all this, I still need to state that I agree with ~everything CENB71 has posted.

The question of whether players being able to rape is appropriate in W2 is not a topic for this thread.
[..] Was the last thread where gay people were being compared to pedophiles and necrophiliacs not enough? Can't we have some fucking class here?

Since your job is determining what is and what isn't an acceptable tangent for this thread, you can surely tell me whether I'm allowed to suggest (not demand) the inclusion of pedophiles and necrophiliacs in this thread or whether I should make an own thread about that.

Well, The whole 2 fallout games is mostly about that.. savage wasteland and out of place pop culture references.. they even have the whole quest dedicated on making fun of Sciencetology lol.
That's why Fallout is so awesome. It's just really funny and disturbing but funny.

[Mort2]

The question of whether players being able to rape is appropriate in W2 is not a topic for this thread. The only reason I posted about it is due to frustration that the mods are engaging with it instead of telling people to stop.

I mean seriously, what the fuck does this have to do with the topic at hand? Why are mods encouraging such an obvious tangent like this? Was the last thread where gay people were being compared to pedophiles and necrophiliacs not enough? Can't we have some fucking class here?

The example was about FO, showing that in the few cases that you could have sexual encounters, both sexes remained equal and that I dont see any reason to give this topic any special attention beyond what the writers come up with. The rape thing has nothing todo with gay people but with one of the examples, so stop acting, no one encouraging anything. For that matter, since you reveal that this is already a SECOND thread, on the topic, I would like to quote this:

Is this still raging on? Christ.

Bottom line: give the designers / writers carte blanche on this one. Otherwise the thread spirals off into infinite regress, sustained by even more subtle, under-the-radar trolling.

Or you can make a poll and see the option you don't agree with come out on top.

Carry on, gentlemen.

[klyvenator]

How did a thread about including Gay characters sidetrack off to rape?

I don't mind the inclusion of gay characters. It adds realism to the game which is what I want however don't do a bioware and make every second character gay, only 10% of the population is GLBT and the game should reflect that.

Also a big no to any kind of rape please. If you want rape please find some japanese porno game to play :/, I find the notion of rape disturbing and would hate to see it in WL2 realism or not.

[Brother None]

Since your job is determining what is and what isn't an acceptable tangent for this thread, you can surely tell me whether I'm allowed to suggest (not demand) the inclusion of pedophiles and necrophiliacs in this thread or whether I should make an own thread about that.

No, he's right. And equating homosexuality to pedophilia and necrophilia is inappropriate and off-topic.

Split a bunch of posts. Try not to go off-topic again. Rape has nothing to do with homosexuality.

[ffordesoon]

That Gamescook's point is apparently not considered a valid counterargument says some very depressing things about some people here.

He was asked how homosexuals are more worthy of being featured in a videogame than xyz other distinguishable subgroups of humanity. He didn't reply to that point. He only repeated what he said before.

Oh, because that was such a great point, and not a leading question based on a false equivalency Gamescook himself (herself?) never actually proposed or would dream of proposing, because it's a monumentally idiotic point to begin with.

Nobody is asking for a "quota" or for every third character - or even every tenth character - to be gay, for the gay characters to be considered "role models", or anything like that. Nobody is asking for other minorities to be left out in order to satisfy the "gay demographic". To suggest that such ridiculous arguments are being put forth is the mark of someone too childish to actually engage with an issue on an adult, rational level. Some people have considered the idea and made good points against it. You are asking a fundamentally ridiculous question to derail the issue so you don't have to deal with it.

And by the way, not that this matters in the least, and maybe Stonetoes has mentioned being gay in another thread, but I, at least, am a straight dude who's totally for this. Not only is it an opportunity for a bunch of interesting story possibilities that have absolutely nothing to do with romance, and not only does it flesh out the world and characters in a believable and mature fashion, and not only is it consistent with the content of previous games in the series, but it's just a nice thing to do.

If the RPG Codex can have a statue in Wasteland 2, surely some NPCs can be gay.

[Mort2]

not asking and not suggesting... but here we are, second thread in a row, stating that it would be interesting and nice thing to do.

If anything I am with Tagaziel and BlackGauntlet, a far more interesting and consistent setting would be to see some hate-driven community string up everyone who is not like them(including gay people), however since I am a strong believer in choice, I would want the player to have to choice to support them (similarly to the slaver option in FO, even though I never took it).

[Gamescook]

My bad on that triple post, guys.

[luckz]

You are asking a fundamentally ridiculous question to derail the issue so you don't have to deal with it.

I didn't at all ask the question, I merely pointed out that the combination of not actually replying to the content of what you claim to be replying to & multi-posting doesn't constitute good 'netiquette'. I also didn't at all advocate 'not dealing with it'. You're putting a lot of silly stuff into my mouth.
For what it's worth, I stated the odd time that I want my grimdark post-nuclear roleplaying games to feature all varieties of sexual content the writers can come up with, however no romance sub-plots or ability to marry NPCs or whatever else you'd see in a Lionhead or Bioware game. How I'm an evil anti-gay mongrel is beyond me.

The killer argument surely would be "I don't want any of my money to be wasted on writing gay characters when it could be spent on making a nice coop mode". ^_^

Since your job is determining what is and what isn't an acceptable tangent for this thread, you can surely tell me whether I'm allowed to suggest (not demand) the inclusion of pedophiles and necrophiliacs in this thread or whether I should make an own thread about that.

No, he's right. And equating homosexuality to pedophilia and necrophilia is inappropriate and off-topic.

Split a bunch of posts. Try not to go off-topic again. Rape has nothing to do with homosexuality.

I was entirely serious in my suggestion. I realised at the time it sounded sarcastic/troll-y, but I had hoped we had enough autists here that somebody would take me seriously. That said, I can't recall ever playing a videogame featuring characters with ASDs.
If this is a 'dark like Fallout' game, they'd fit in just fine. I don't know whether there was official word re how this will be set on a scale from the 'friendly happy Wasteland' to the 'dark gloomy sarcastic Fallout'. If it's definitely the former, even discussing this would be a waste of time.

And well, this either can be a rather useful thread about sexuality (not romance) in the game, i.e. the range of sexuality portrayed in it, which is what happened on a few pages of this rather long thingiemabingie (see the Mad Max comparisons), or it can be a thread about wanting male characters in the game that are either into other hypothetical or also featured male characters (or about LGBT characters). I presume putting lesbians in would just be labelled 'fan service'. And bisexuals don't exist, unless they're girls, and then they're lesbians (see previous sentence).

So as I said - do you want an extra thread for each other type of sexual orientation/disposition/identity? This again is a serious question.


P.S.: Wiki: List of LGBT characters in video games