No Quest Compass

[felipepepe]

Please, this is a game for people that like to think & explore, no fucking quest compass, no boring "follow the arrow and win" gameplay!

I want a big quest journal, possibly one with rumours too. To find hidden quests that are only hinted by a drunk NPC or a page from a burned book (or maybe never be able to find them). To burn my brains trying to find a lost caravan last seen at the south of a huge black rock by a traveller (and maybe find out he was lying). To be outwitted by a man/group/faction/conspiracy that will laugh at me and show how pointless my "heroic deeds" were, like the famous "Gnome Conspiray" in Arcanum.

That's what a true RPG really needs, memmorable quests and a sense of exploration and discovery! Show the player that he is in a harsh world and will be fooled and abused if acts like a naive hero. Sometimes just say "NO" and make fun/be cruel to the player! I think every person who's behing this project is tired of hand-holding games for spoiled kids where you always win, save the day, became Archmage and get the loot. So please, challenge us!

[Tuco]

Yes, a big "NO" to quest compass and self-solving gameplay would be appreciated.
Generic, inaccurate hints about where to find something/someone? Sure.
A big glowing arrow leading the way? Fuck that shit.

[TellarHK]

Yes, a big "NO" to quest compass and self-solving gameplay would be appreciated.
Generic, inaccurate hints about where to find something/someone? Sure.
A big glowing arrow leading the way? Fuck that shit.

That's a paradigm that only really has a purpose in 3D environments where it can be easy for a player to get turned around or lost. A top-down or isometric RPG style game has a much simpler navigational style. I wouldn't say this was any kind of risk.

A quest log or journal would be nice, however.

[Brother None]

I don't think quest markers are a sin if you're told specifically where to go, because in that case the character knows, the player knows, it makes sense if it's a marker on the map.

The problem quest compasses created was not that, it was that you could click through dialog, follow the quest compass, kill whatever is at the end of it, and quest over. 90% of Skyrim is exactly that, and it's both stupid and fucking boring.

We've come a long way in how we log and keep track of quests tho, and there's no reason not to make full use of it. Be selective in quest markers, log related dialog with the quests in your questlog. Never ever help the player, but don't put up artificial blockades either.

[Flamekebab]

That sounds like a good compromise, I feel. I didn't like how in New Vegas I could have loads of quests active and not need to really have any idea what I was doing, or why. It's not the amount, it was that I could rely on the game to basically tell me what to do to the point where I was just going through the motions.

*select quest from log*
Oh, fast travel there? Okay.
At that exact point up ahead is the objective? Right.
Done. Now what? Oh, new marker? I'll fast travel there and hand it in.

It stopped play being about the stories and turned the day to day aspect of the game into formulaic monotony.

[Brother None]

The last two Skyrims and Fallouts are good examples of it going awry. Bethesda (and, as a result, Obsidian) completely took out the quest log and need to pay attention and replaced it with quest markers. Awful, awful game design. Just fundamentally bad.

[samjaza]

I always liked having a nice detailed journal in-game, where I could also make notes, I am not a fan of quest compasses at all.
It kind of needed in games like Skyrim because it was designed around it and there isn't enough information in the quest journal, but if it was designed to work without a quest compass to start with it would be great.

[The Beast Man]

A quest journal is a must. In this day and age, we shouldn't have to take quest notes on paper.

Maybe a journal we can write in?

[X-pert74]

I can go for this too. An in-game journal would be very nice to have, as it wouldn't necessarily make the gameplay "easier"; just more convenient. That way we could easily look at what quest hints we've come across, and still come to our own conclusions and go out exploring and attempt to solve puzzles and the like based on what we know. It would be significantly different from having a simple quest marker pointing out everything to us, as if we aren't capable of thinking for ourselves.

[Jack Dandy]

A BIG +1 ON SAMJAZA AND BEASTMAN'S recommendation. (And OP's as well!)

I'd hate to have a quest compass, but having a quest journal you can even write in yourself and use clues you find to find some extra secrets would be great.

[SniperHF]

I don't think quest markers are a sin if you're told specifically where to go, because in that case the character knows, the player knows, it makes sense if it's a marker on the map.

This is where I come down on the issue of a Quest marker. It's fine if the "character knows".
It even makes more sense to do it this way in an RPG. If I get a line of dialog telling me Bob buried an AK-47 near the abandoned mine, but quit playing for a few weeks there is no way I'm going to remember that. But theoretically my character should, either written in a journal or marked on a map.

[Perkel]

Absolutely no hand holding. If you don't listen to dialogs you won't know what to do next. Journal should be only minimal something aka. Deal with drug dealers in San remo. Not mentioning who are those and where are they.

[hiptanaka]

The last two Skyrims and Fallouts are good examples of it going awry. Bethesda (and, as a result, Obsidian) completely took out the quest log and need to pay attention and replaced it with quest markers. Awful, awful game design. Just fundamentally bad.

I agree. I remember a particular quest where I was to find an object in a Vault. What could have been a fairly interesting and atmospheric "explore quest" where visual cues would be important, it turned into "find the specific locker the quest compass points at".

A quest compass that points to a general location for quests that are obviously tied to a known location wouldn't be all bad, but it still feels limiting to have a compass in mind when designing quests, so it's probably better to ditch it alltogether. Ideally, there should be quests that aren't tied to a location, as far as the player knows. The first part of a quest could be "find someone who has influence on trade routes in region X", in which case I would want to figure out by myself where such a person could be.

[RyuRanX]

I agree with eveyone else. Quest compass is one of the worse game mechanics ever. It completely ruins immersion, exploration, challenge and surprise.

I think a journal system like the one used in Arcanum would do just fine. It was plain text, but there were different colors for quests completed, in progress or failed.

[Kilus]

Absolutely no hand holding. If you don't listen to dialogs you won't know what to do next. Journal should be only minimal something aka. Deal with drug dealers in San remo. Not mentioning who are those and where are they.

Why? I mean if you just want to go by your memory it's fine but what does removing information from the journal actually accomplish?

On another note the Journal writing were some of favourite parts of Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment.

[ThatDearGuy]

I think it is safe to assume that Inxile Entertainment won't follow up on a long tradition of recurring Bethesda Softworks design errors. That being said, yes.. no quest compass please.

[Flamekebab]

If I have to find a quest giver when I finish something it'd be nice if there could be a picture or description. Half the time I don't remember who precisely gave me a job in games, particularly if they were rather generic.

[The Beast Man]

If I have to find a quest giver when I finish something it'd be nice if there could be a picture or description. Half the time I don't remember who precisely gave me a job in games, particularly if they were rather generic.

I was just thinking this too. Along with writing in the journal, we should be able to draw free hand (in case there are symbols to remember) and/or copy and paste images (pics of characters, items, locations, etc.)

[Flamekebab]

A cool little "sketch of the person" mechanic would be nifty. Essentially taking the character's face and outline and running a simple image filter over it (say, desaturate, edge detection, rough lines). That way we don't get a photograph (which would seem rather nonsensical) but we still get a good idea of what the person looks like.

Furthermore it'd make flicking back through the journal kinda cool.

[Sobboth]

If I have to find a quest giver when I finish something it'd be nice if there could be a picture or description. Half the time I don't remember who precisely gave me a job in games, particularly if they were rather generic.

Well if you need that the game is doing it very wrong.
No quest compass even as an option, it's a terrible design, an incitation to create awfull quests/NPC and it kills the exploration part. Compare the amazing feeling of discovery and exploration in Ultima 4/Wizardry 8 to the dull one in F3 or F:NV.
A journal and a map where you could write information, NPC giving hints/rough direction are enough.
Moreover if you are really stuck you have internet now...