Gay Characters

[stonetoes]

I have a wild idea. How about the sexuality of characters is a complete non-issue? It doesn't need to come up at all! Never mention whether someone is straight, bi or gay. Just don't reference sexuality at all. Now that would refreshing.

So never have a man mention his wife who was kidnapped my raiders, or a woman mention that her boyfriend is the local ratcatcher? Have no mention of people being in any sort of non-platonic relationship in the whole game?

Remember, no one is asking for characters who say "I am gay", they are asking that some characters be written as GLBT and if that fact happens to come up in conversation, usually when mentioning the gender of their significant other, so be it.

[Thiryll]

I mean, among gay people you know, how many walk around going "by the way, I'm gay" in random conversation or with complete strangers?

You'd be surprised...

Anyway... I don't really see the point of this thread.
Unless the game will have sexual elements and options, I see no reason to portray sexual orientation.

Okay, you might come across couples and some of them might be gay, but what difference does it make?
What impact does it have on the game?

NONE WHATSOEVER.

I suppose if this gay couple was frowned upon by the community, you could spin a lot of "please help us"-nonsensical quests out of it, but I wouldn't go there.
Mostly because it would insinuate that homosexuality will still be frowned upon at... whatever time this is supposed to be taking place.

[stonetoes]

Okay, you might come across couples and some of them might be gay, but what difference does it make?
What impact does it have on the game?

OK, so if it makes no difference, does that mean you're not opposed to some of them being written as gay instead of straight? Since you are very clear that it will have no impact whatsover?

Mostly because it would insinuate that homosexuality will still be frowned upon at... whatever time this is supposed to be taking place.

Quests revolving around homophobia in the wastes are only nonsensical if inXile write them that way. Whether they can be handled well is pretty imaterial if there are no gay people in the first place though, which is what this topic is asking for.

[hellboy1975]

Maybe the world should be populated with only asexual robots.

[BlackGauntlet]

I'm all for having gays in the game. As long as they are as killable as any other people in the game...

[udm]

The issue for me isn't whether a game has gay characters or not, it's how those characters are presented. The fact is that sexuality is not relevant in 99.9% of situations, and yet when you have a gay character in a game, the developers feel the need to denote that character as explicitly gay, usually through some sort of random "my partner" reference that's shoehorned in solely so the character can say "I'm not straight!!11!1"

I mean, among gay people you know, how many walk around going "by the way, I'm gay" in random conversation or with complete strangers? Now, how often do you think that happens when even basic survival is a struggle and people have more pressing concerns to think about than sexual orientation? People simply do not act like that unless it happens to be relevant, and it almost never is.

You want to imagine every 1/10 people are gay in Wasteland 2, fine. You can pretend your whole party is LGBT if you want. But Wasteland is a) not a game featuring Emotionally Engaging(TM) characters, and b) not really an appropriate venue for discussion of sexuality.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Lanatir]

If sexuality is in any form a topic in WL2 (i dont think it is), then for freds sake, include gay people how much you want.
What i really wonder about is why all of a sudden whenever you hear about a new rpg being made someone shows up demanding that it must include gay characters. Why? You dont ask for gay characters in Fifa2012 or in Halo or in Monkey Island (whereas im not sure if there actually arent some in there). If there is a new discworld book announced, do people show up demanding of Terry Pratchett that he HAS to include gay characters? I dont think so. So whats with peoples obsession to include gay people into rpg? If you want a gay person, well, go ahead, its a roleplaying game, play one.

[Elerond]

If sexuality is in any form a topic in WL2 (i dont think it is), then for freds sake, include gay people how much you want.
What i really wonder about is why all of a sudden whenever you hear about a new rpg being made someone shows up demanding that it must include gay characters. Why? You dont ask for gay characters in Fifa2012 or in Halo or in Monkey Island (whereas im not sure if there actually arent some in there). If there is a new discworld book announced, do people show up demanding of Terry Pratchett that he HAS to include gay characters? I dont think so. So whats with peoples obsession to include gay people into rpg? If you want a gay person, well, go ahead, its a roleplaying game, play one.

Your examples for games aren't very good. As FIFA 12 has only real world chararctes which some are gays. Halo should first have even some depth that you even could ask íf there should be gay characters (and Master Chief most obvious gay in gaming history - hey he has pink armour and all ). And you don't need ask gay characters in Monkey Island because I think there is more them in game than heteros. And finaly Terry has alzheimer's disease and will not write many book any more and those which he writes are mostly writed be his daughter. And there is couple gay characters in disc world and still some fan in conventions asked more of them or alternatively they ask if some characters will have romance and there was many of those who wanted have some sort gay romance in disc world.

And playing gay in crpg can be very hard if you character flirts with every npc of opposing sex and don't have any such lines for his/her own gender, that kind of think will kill fast immersion that your character is gay despite how hard you try to thing that he/she is gay.

And why people want gay character in rpgs. First they add diversity, which add depth, because there are more things to see and feel. Second they can give player more ways to play game, which I think is very good thing because more ways to play mean more play throughs. Thrid for some people it is very nice to see characters who identify them same as you, this is especially importand for minorities who do not see such characters in 99% of all entertaiment media (this is why lesbians did go see those bad lesbian vampire movies in 80s, though lesbian were villians of story and most of time where killed in end, but there was so few of movies with lesbians on it that they could not be picky). Forth there are heteros like me who think that stories are better with lesbians on it, for example Yesterday was I walking on beach when I saw ugly man kissing ugly woman and I was feeling qualmish for such sight and I decided to leaved with hurry from beach. And now same story with lesbian on it, Yesterday I was walking on beach when I saw two hot women kissig each other with steamy passion and I decided that it was such fine day that I will sit for while to look view (I mean landscape you dirty people) . Fifth if you are feeling awkward about gay sex just try remeber that it good for you to increase your tolerance for such things and you can take delight from that hetero sex is usually equally awkward for gay people.

P.S. I ask your forgivness for my bad grammar. Nonetheless I take some delight of torturing people with it.

[knux81]

I'm sorry but I agree with alot of others on this....
Until I get my "OMG HOTNESS! I WANNA BANG YOU!" button for NPC interaction...The issue of sexuality for characters is moot at best.

[GSoda]

...The issue of sexuality for characters is moot at best.

You know, I find this view kind of puzzling. The setting is post-apocalyptic. I always would think such a setting would bring out the raw, base needs of a human. Survival, violence but also, quite natural, sex (note: not romance).

It's really strange to me that there seem to be so many people here passionately arguing for killable children, but any form or mention of sex in post-apocalyptica (prostitution, etc..) kind of gets a "uhh...yeah...better stay clear of that" comment.

That being said I don't care if gay characters are in W2 or not, but imo there is no real reason to *not* include them (what ? they are gonna die out when the bombs drop ?).

[knux81]

Well it all depends on how it would be implemented and what it would effect.

I mean just talking to someone doesn't exactly tell you if they are gay/straight/bi/whatever. Your raise a valid point on the needs of an individual. Sex would be a very high priority as the procreation of the species is what makes us so hardy.
Unfortunately this is where the waters of political correctness get very very muddy and full of sharks.

Until I can basically start a romance/love life with ANYONE within a game and not have some pre-scripted drama hack (like ME and DA)...And the choice of my eventual partner effect the game in any way (other then some sideboob and possibly some butt cheek). The sexuality of a character makes no difference.

Until they give you the option to attempt to woo anyone, why should you care if a character is gay or not? O.o

[Madball357]

And why people want gay character in rpgs. First they add diversity, which add depth, because there are more things to see and feel.

So your suggestion to add diversity and depth to videogames is to include homosexual characters in them?

Second they can give player more ways to play game, which I think is very good thing because more ways to play mean more play throughs.

Uh, more ways to play the game? As in 'YAY!, in this playthrough I'll romance my gay companion! So many choices and depth!!'

Thrid for some people it is very nice to see characters who identify them same as you, this is especially importand for minorities who do not see such characters in 99% of all entertaiment media.

For the life of me, I can't fathom why would ANYONE would feel this bizarre need of being 'represented' in videogames. It's silly and quite pathetic when you realize they're actually serious about it. The whole point of videogames (and books and movies) is to escape reality, that's why it's called 'entertainment'.

Forth there are heteros like me

who think that stories are better with lesbians on it, for example Yesterday was I walking on beach when I saw ugly man kissing ugly woman and I was feeling qualmish for such sight and I decided to leaved with hurry from beach. And now same story with lesbian on it, Yesterday I was walking on beach when I saw two hot women kissig each other with steamy passion and I decided that it was such fine day that I will sit for while to look view (I mean landscape you dirty people) .

Change [two hot women] with [two decrepit old hags with saggy tits and stained skin]

ALL YOUR ARGUMENT ARE BELONG TO US.

Fifth if you are feeling awkward about gay sex just try remeber that it good for you to increase your tolerance for such things and you can take delight from that hetero sex is usually equally awkward for gay people.

Being fed gay sex in videogames certainly will not increase my tolerance about it, quite the opposite. How would gay people feel if I were trying to force hetero sex in gay porno movies? Think about that.

[hiptanaka]

So the game must include homosexual characters? I don't think so.

Is it OK if such characters are included, in a way and to a degree that makes sense in the game world? Of course.

[Elerond]

And why people want gay character in rpgs. First they add diversity, which add depth, because there are more things to see and feel.

So your suggestion to add diversity and depth to videogames is to include homosexual characters in them?

Second they can give player more ways to play game, which I think is very good thing because more ways to play mean more play throughs.

Uh, more ways to play the game? As in 'YAY!, in this playthrough I'll romance my gay companion! So many choices and depth!!'

My suggestion to add diversity and depth to videogames is not to include homosexual characters in them. But homosexual characters add diversity (as do different races, species, societies, religions, and etc. ). Diversity in most cases add depth to fictional worlds because writes must think how different biological and social aspect work in their world and how their world is shapen these different characters.

More ways to play game means that you have more options when you decide what kind person your character is. For example you can be a watermelon who preach goodness of diversity and who foughts to make world better place for minorities. Or you can play homophopic nationalist who see minorities as threath for majority and foughts to make sure that majority will survive. So no romances which don't really give you any reason to play game again, but real options to play game through different ways.

I don't say that gay characters are necessary to add depth or to give different ways to play, but they are one aspect which gives writers options. When you add that homosexuality is real thing which is cause for arguments, depates, persecutions and polarity in our world and so from my view point homosexuality is good way to do that in fictional worlds too (as in videogames). And when you add to equation that adding homosexuality and homosexual character in videogame make homosexual feel included, seen and somewhat accepted thus I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be homosexual characters in Wasteland 2.

[ffordesoon]

Oh, boy...

Look. This is pretty simple. Gay characters should be in Wasteland 2, because diversity is more interesting than homogeneity. It gives the writers more options, opens up the opportunity to explore more themes, and makes the world more interesting. Also, there simply would be some gay people in the wasteland. I believe the popularly accepted statistic is that one in every ten Americans is gay, yes? Surely a few of those people would survive the bombs.

That does not mean that everyone in the game should be gay, or that gay men should walk around in sweater vests and bicycle shorts wearing a big pope hat that says "I'm Gay!" on it, or that you need to be able to make out with a gay man in a long and involved cutscene, or whatever claptrap some... people reading this have extrapolated from the OP's simple request.

And to anyone saying "It has no impact on the game!": if it has no impact on the game, is easy almost to the point of comedy to implement, and a fair amount of people want it, why not include it? Is it detrimental to the experience of anyone who's not homophobic? No, not one bit. And it can be as simple as changing the occasional pronoun in the text.

So why not do it? Give me one valid reason.

[Madball357]

Look. This is pretty simple. Gay characters should be in Wasteland 2, because diversity is more interesting than homogeneity. It gives the writers more options, opens up the opportunity to explore more themes, and makes the world more interesting.

More does not mean better. More does not mean better. More does not mean better. Doesn't get any simpler than that.

Also, there simply would be some gay people in the wasteland. I believe the popularly accepted statistic is that one in every ten Americans is gay, yes? Surely a few of those people would survive the bombs.

The unemployment rate in the US is 1 in 12. I guess this means there should be unemployed people in Wasteland 2? And disabled people? And fat people? How many dog owners are in the US? I guess lots, so they have to be represented in Wasteland 2. I mean, why not, right?

So why not do it? Give me one valid reason.

Why do it? Give me one valid reason.

[ffordesoon]

Because people want it, it's as easy to implement as changing a few pronouns in dialogue, and it doesn't impact anyone's experience except that of the people who want it, who'll be overjoyed, and that of homophobes, who should in no way be catered to anyway, because why would you cater to bigots?

There, three valid reasons.

And when it comes to cRPGs, all other things being equal, more options are always better. That was the stance of Fallout, and of Wasteland before it.

In fact, the company who represents this tendency in RPG design the least is Bioware. So you're saying you want a Bioware game, then?

See? I can speak Fox News (read: make outrageous claims in no way based in fact solely to discredit people and derail a topic like a jerk) too. Now let's stop doing that and be adults, hm?

[The_A_Drain]

I never saw any complaints about the inclusion of homosexual characters in any of the major inspirations for these games and other examples in the post-apocalyptic genre. There's quite a lot of them, Mad Max for example both Mad Max and Road Warrior include pretty significant homosexual characters. So why should the game itself be any different?

I think some people just have trouble accepting that all kinds of different people exist and when anything around them isn't "normal" then it's being "pushed" on them. Which is pretty delusional, if I'm honest.

[Leona]

I can see lesbian amazon settlement fit right in to wasteland setting.
Amazons would truly add to the story, but I don see how gay sensitive dudes survive in vilante world of wasteland. Can't seem to picture mad max being gay.

[Infinitron]

When people talk about "more options", it's a reference to game mechanics and quest solutions only. Please don't hijack oldschool gamer rhetoric in the service of an agenda that has nothing to do with it.