Narrative Themes

[derekticon]

If there's any "modernization" required for the sequel to Wasteland, is to capture the 'state of paranoia' of the contemporary age - the type of political social/paranoia and sardonic reality that players are familiar with. Here's some suggestions:

WAR: "Religious Terrorists" - this was the main narrative of the first decade of the new millenium, and people - especially those in the West, are paranoid about suicide bombers and religious extremists - and not knowing who they maybe because they live among us, some of whom could be self-radicalised. And this had led to the persecution of minorities. Wasteland 2 can visit this theme of "extremism" and "suicide bombers" - Some ideas to explore within this narrative - why are people willing to sacrifice their life and commit acts of martyrdom? War is the use of force for political ends. Servants of Mushroom Cloud could be a possible faction to develop this narrative.

PESTILENCE: "Bio-terrorism" - Dirty bomb, SARS and other pandemic. if zombie/ghoul/mutant tropes are still popular, the fear of epidemic, decay, ill-health, state of undying pain.

DEATH: genocide, communal and sectarian conflict; the extermination of another race/ethnic cleansing. This is greater than war because its about the annihilation of another community. This was a common theme in post-Cold War world (Rwanda, Kosovo etc)

FAMINE: Genetically modified food, environmental damage, climate change.

alternative to FAMINE: economic malaise - subprime crisis, unemployment, the 1% vs 99%

[Drool]

The bombs have already fallen. I don't think people are going to be terribly fussed about GM crops.

[derekticon]

Post-Cold War insecurity: Paranoia of the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction. The fear of non-Security Council states getting their hands on nuclear weapons and other WMD such as bio-chem weapons.

It happened when India and Pakistan tested their nuclear warheads. And the Japanese doomsday cult AUM Shinrikyo releasing sarin gas in the Tokyo subway.

This drama is still acting out between Israel and Iran. Israel using nukes on Iran or Iran detonating a nuclear warhead over Jerusalem sounds something like the Biblical Armageddon.

[Tagaziel]

A lot of the drastic changes in the world in the 1990s can also provide inspiration for the themes to tackle in the game.

I'd rather the writers avoided the game being a commentary to contemporary issues, though. That'd run the risk of WL2 quickly becoming outdated, rather than a timeless classic.

[Mort2]

Btw, what factions do we have in Wasteland other than:
1. Rangers, established at Ranger center modeled after the USA and already established a republic of sort.
2. Servants of the Mushroom Cloud, religious zealots worshiping the radiation, made up of humans and mutants.
3. Guardians of the Old Order, Techno hording fanatics and xenophobics.

[Drool]

Let's see...

Highpool: the adults were organizing an ill-advised counter attack against desert raiders. Could count as a faction.
Desert Nomads: they're a giant faction made up of three small factions
Ag Farmers: not much of a faction, but they should count as a minor one
Ugly's Gang: powerful enough to be taking over Quartz with minimal resistance
Quartz civilians: I'm not sure what else to call them, but they're Laurie, Ellen, Mayor Pedros, etc
The Jerks: definitely an organized gang with a distinct hierarchy (normal, leather, brass, leader)
Blood Worshipers: giant faction with two rival sub-factions, the Temple followers and the Bishop's flock
Needles Police: not sure I'd call them a faction, but there's a lot of them
Fat Freddy: #2 in Vegas
Faran Brygo: #1 in Vegas (Ace, Covenant, Max, and Crumb are all under his umbrella)
Junk Town: independent, and mostly pointless faction, but certainly count
Cochise robots: I'd call them a faction even though they're the big bad

I wouldn't consider Finster a faction as he's one man, despite Metal Maniac and Mad Dog Fargo being former employees/experimental subjects. While the Black Market guards probably work for someone, it's never established, and the shopkeep doesn't seem to mind corpses in his foyer.

[Mort2]

Any thought toward what other faction and themes you want inxile to explore? The themes can draw on anything politics, religion, mythology, ideology, psychology whatever. However, IMO it doesn't have to to be apparent or shoved in your face as social commentary, but laid in as subtext. For example, I have no problem seeing the 'Servants of the Mushroom Cloud' go toward extremism similar to what is described in @derekticon examples.

[Tagaziel]

The Tronodiles! The cyborgs from Wasteland's sewers were never properly explained in the game, they just sort of... were.

[Mort2]

Usually when there is AI it is always bad(or turned bad) bent over destroying humanity. What if there were more than one AI faction, not all dedicated to destroying humanity, what if some discover its individualism and rebel against their directives, some become peaceful, one contracting some mental disorder or do the "human" thing and try to enslave the rest.

Considering the plot of W1, the AI factions dont need to be strong enough to pose major threat to the waste.

[derekticon]

Usually when there is AI it is always bad(or turned bad) bent over destroying humanity. What if there were more than one AI faction, not all dedicated to destroying humanity, what if some discover its individualism and rebel against their directives, some become peaceful, one contracting some mental disorder or do the "human" thing and try to enslave the rest.

Considering the plot of W1, the AI factions dont need to be strong enough to pose major threat to the waste.

Interesting! Other than the Skynet trajectory, it could possibly be treated like a conspiracy tale - with different AI trying to manipulate human affairs. What if the nuclear apocalypse was one of the outcome of a AI vs AI contest to wipe the slate clean and trying to rebuild the perfect human society?

[Mort2]

What about the "enclave"? sure the remnants of the Government, playing part as the main antagonists through some conspiracy, who knows better and have the power to make you see it, has been done to death. However, a world in which Ranger center is the only power to emerge from the rubble is just unbelievable. so any thought on what other remnants of the Government/Army has been doing so far in the Wasteland?

EDIT: for that matter, how much unified are rangers, with their territory growing, either their ranks are swelling or some other organization might start, with conditions improving, there is always someone who think that he can do a better job...

[Mort2]

I would love to see various wacky cargo cults among the tribals. For that matter not only tribals, I wouldn't mind to encounter explorers like in the Eternity Road.

[Droog]

I'd like the erosion of Ranger station to be one of the themes. After winning the west from our imminent robot overlords, the civilization's entered a missions crisis. The communities they had absorbed, in the early years, divided in their seminal hour. Their ideal society degraded. Now solidarity, rather than taming the west, is priority 1. Although their home is far from extinct, the Rangers have lost their influence with the tribune. This is a time of peace...

[Leif]

Unsustainable Growth

Consequences of rampant militarism

Scarcity

Competition and Cooperation

Environmental destruction

Social unrest

Atrophy

Giant bugs

[derekticon]

Unsustainable Growth

Consequences of rampant militarism

Scarcity

Competition and Cooperation

Environmental destruction

Social unrest

Atrophy

Giant bugs

I like all of the above

[Mort2]

Unsustainable Growth
Consequences of rampant militarism
Competition and Cooperation
Environmental destruction

Can you explain how you want to explore those? (removed those I agree with)


I think that Scarcity is a given, IMO it's also a gameplay element, it help you better appreciate what you do and get and introduce progression without make you overpowered super soldier. If we look on the global scale, then I can see a your "competition/cooperation" reflected in terms of a resource war over what left.(which make sense in terms that Wasteland is more about rebuilding than Fallout) I'd like to see the good ol' "history repeats it self".

Also, I think that exploring "morality' or rather the immorality of the new world is a given. I thought that FO3 had a nice idea with the Little Lamplight, it would be nice if we explore the same, only without its PC, more of Lord of the Flies version, maybe even with children killing children.

"religion", I would love to see them explore religion place in such backward society, and not only as crazy cult of zealots, it can be more about importance and power of hope for example.

[Droog]

Environmental deterioration is done to death. Supposedly, everything has to whither and die, after global, thermonuclear war. Boring. After the apocalypse, life actually flourishes, with help from radiation and a humbled humanity. This helps set Wasteland apart from other post-apoc settings, which depict nothing more than a glum, lifeless scape. Yes, there is wasteland, but this is balanced by wild, impossible growth. A new Era of life, unwitnessed by man. The earth has taken its spoil.

[Leif]

Unsustainable Growth
Not to sound like some Malthusian wing-nut but when a population gets too large to sustain itself there is a die-off. After global nuclear apocalypse there certainly won't be quite as many grain fields, but then again there won't be nearly as many mouths to feed.

The thousands of square miles of suburbia is going to feel especially desolate when there's no real remaining shelter or sources of food. Rural areas will be ghost-towns.

Consequences of rampant militarism
When I think of the 80s I think of Reagan's "Star-Wars" program, the Iran-Contra affair and our dealings with Saddam. While it may be handy from a game-play perspective that America doth love it's guns so much that after the bombs drop they'll still be lying around, from a societal perspective the sort of unstable society produced by such massive destructive forces would cripple [or quash] human development.

Competition and Cooperation
Not everything out in the wastes need be win-lose. There are all sorts of creative ways to solve a problem beyond getting into position and shooting the enemy in the nutts/eyes until they're all dead. With resources being as scarce as they would likely be, a great deal of the time it would make more sense to eschew combat all-together.

Environmental destruction
"What you gonna do when the well runs dry?"

[Hasenklein]

I think a major theme of Wasteland was the concept of lost knowledge. In Wasteland, this concept is represented by the description of the Guardians (http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Guardians), or by an incident/joke about the rail nomads (I don't remember it, though).

I think that rather shortly after the holocaust, knowledge started to get lost, and resulted in communities that, at least in this regards, are not different from people who lived in the middle ages and found artifacts of a star traveling alien race. They know that these items may be of great power, but they do neither know what powers they have, nor how they can be invoked, and much less how they can even be produced.

What it means is that people may find certain artifacts, but they don't know its function, they don't know what actions need to be performed in order to invoke its power; nevertheless, they may feel that such items might have great value.

So it would not be surprising if various cults begin to raise about technology. For us, a toaster repair man seems to be pretty rediculous. In a world were even the knowledge what a toaster is is lost, a toaster repair man may have great power, and bring hope to the peope. (And I think it only remains absurd if toaster repair doesn't extent to other fields of knowledge.)

I think that lost knowledge has an impact on the whole world, while it may differ from community to community what technologies are available (including knowledge about the functions of political institutions as well), the extent of knowledge what these technologies can, how they function, and how they are produced.