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Kickstarter Drive Update #6

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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby The_A_Drain » March 26th, 2012, 5:39 pm

Ichkannnichtmehr wrote:
But if less than 2% of people actively support something, does that mean it should be included?


Replace support/oppose with 'feel strongly either way'. I'm just not a big fan of any decision inclusive or exclusive to be made on such a small number of people, especially in an age where a vocal minority appears to be so much bigger than it actually is thanks to social media and electronic communication.

I watch a lot of television, read a lot of books, etc and it saddens me every time I see something censored or 'revised' because of one, or a handful of complaints. Etc etc.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Ichkannnichtmehr » March 26th, 2012, 5:43 pm

The_A_Drain wrote:I watch a lot of television, read a lot of books, etc and it saddens me every time I see something censored or 'revised' because of one, or a handful of complaints. Etc etc.


Then how about you become one of the "handful of complaints?"

The system, while not perfect, works both ways, so if you see something you don't like, speak up and bring your arguments.

If your arguments are good and/or garner support, maybe you will be one of the vocal minority, that changes the game.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby EcoGuy » March 26th, 2012, 5:48 pm

The_A_Drain wrote:
Ichkannnichtmehr wrote:
But if less than 2% of people actively support something, does that mean it should be included?


Replace support/oppose with 'feel strongly either way'. I'm just not a big fan of any decision inclusive or exclusive to be made on such a small number of people, especially in an age where a vocal minority appears to be so much bigger than it actually is thanks to social media and electronic communication.

I watch a lot of television, read a lot of books, etc and it saddens me every time I see something censored or 'revised' because of one, or a handful of complaints. Etc etc.


We are spot on in our concerns and I could not agree more and no offense taken. I think Ich is of the same general opinion if from a different frame of reference. Just because a view or position is said loud and often doesn't make it the overall view but does get most of the attention and therefore sometimes garners more consideration than its due.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby The_A_Drain » March 26th, 2012, 5:55 pm

Ichkannnichtmehr wrote:Then how about you become one of the "handful of complaints?"


Huh? I am. I am very vocal in my support of things I like both with written correspondence and monetary purchases. But even if something gets a lot of support, sometimes it gets struck down because of one complaint. It's just that simple, sometimes content creators and businesses don't have the balls to say "Don't like it? Don't watch/read/listen to/play it."

This is getting off-topic a lot now though, we're talking general media consumption that has nothing to do with Wasteland 2 (my own fault, to be fair) :)
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Ichkannnichtmehr » March 26th, 2012, 6:01 pm

The_A_Drain wrote:Huh? I am. I am very vocal in my support of things I like both with written correspondence and monetary purchases.


Then you are one of us.

A small group of people who voice an opinion. :D
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Hadar » March 27th, 2012, 4:53 am

Couldn't read the WHOLE 55 pages, sorry if I'm repeating things already said. Until there is some pole or something I give my objection to this whole "online" thing. It seems like an unnecessary game mechanic that will have to be developed, cleaned of bugs, get a UI etc'.

Notes from people popping out after( or before) quests are a good way to kick you out of the experience. I don't care what ammo my friends used, how much HP they had left or whatever. If I want I'll call them and talk about it after I stop playing. And besides, if they left a note, why am doing the quest anyway? It's already done! Serious SOD masher.

So instead of extra "features" just make sure the game is all you promised us it will be. Hire more writers, coders, artists, QAs or whatever. If you finish it all bug free and still have change left just make us an expansion or something. Developers going way over their heads is a great way to make a game who's real parts are unfinished.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby dmazz » March 27th, 2012, 5:58 am

This 'listening to fans' thing is all talk and no substance. Until polls are made and the proposed features well explained, everything is smoke and mirrors.

I don't remember agreeing to linux and macosx ports.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby ButchinMelancholy » March 27th, 2012, 6:21 am

dmazz wrote:I don't remember agreeing to linux and macosx ports.

What? Hopefully noone care that kind of attitude.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Greenpee » March 27th, 2012, 6:54 am

dmazz wrote:I don't remember agreeing to linux and macosx ports.
So, basically, frick everyone on linux and mac? That's a bad example, dude, if it was just that. Porting to major OS was a given from the get-go. But, if you feel strongly enough, why not post that in the 'What to Avoid' section? See how it goes.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Merin » March 27th, 2012, 8:45 am

dmazz wrote:This 'listening to fans' thing is all talk and no substance. Until polls are made and the proposed features well explained, everything is smoke and mirrors.

I don't remember agreeing to linux and macosx ports.


That porting is SO not going to affect the PC gamer's experience, complaining about it is just asinine.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Brother None » March 27th, 2012, 8:56 am

dmazz wrote:This 'listening to fans' thing is all talk and no substance. Until polls are made and the proposed features well explained, everything is smoke and mirrors.

I don't remember agreeing to linux and macosx ports.


You interpreted it as "fans have to sign off on everything"? They're listening to fans, not taking orders from fans. There's a pretty big difference.

From Ripten

MF: Along those lines, you’ve very recently mentioned that if the project hits $2M, there will be some social features. The fan reaction… well, there’s been a lot of confusion around that.

BF: Yeah. Yup. Right before you called I was working on a project update to give that a little more color. I’ve read all that. I think… I already know what they want at $2M. We have forums out there. It’s larger world and more content, more dialog, more audio, more NPC portraits. I’m going to do all that stuff! I… and I shouldn’t have done it… I threw out a fringe idea for discussion, because people keep asking, “what else are going to do?” I was focusing on the “what else.” “Social” is a four-letter word with extra letters. I understand.

People have been burned by a lot of these games that try to be “social.” So, I’m clarifying that. As much as it was like, “Whoa! Slow down, guys! We’re not getting away from this core RPG,” I still prefer this kind of communication. I prefer to know. You might go down a path… in the past, when I made all these other RPGs, I was flying by the seat of my pants, using my instincts as a gamer. Sometimes, you have to be careful. For me, this really helps close the loop, making sure that we’re working on the things that people want. The last thing that we want to do is go work on a feature only to find out that no one wants it. I don’t want to do it either, if no one wants it.

MF: The community does tend to react… strongly.

BF: They’ve been burned a lot, so I can understand why they get the way they do.

MF: It’s interesting, because one of the things you’ve mentioned directly is trying to avoid a “design by committee” situation that tends to happen in a publisher/developer relationship. How hard are you finding it to balance this large fan feedback with avoiding that situation.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby jan » March 27th, 2012, 10:47 am

Sounds very reasonable to me. Sadly it's quite true that a lot have been burnt by bad experiences throughout the years and therefore were a little bit overreacting.

Maybe Brian Fargo could update the kickstarter site as well to gain more momentum again.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby TheEmissary » March 27th, 2012, 10:59 am

Merin wrote:
dmazz wrote:This 'listening to fans' thing is all talk and no substance. Until polls are made and the proposed features well explained, everything is smoke and mirrors.

I don't remember agreeing to linux and macosx ports.


That porting is SO not going to affect the PC gamer's experience, complaining about it is just asinine.


Not to mention there are opensource toolkits/APIs like SDL or GTK and OpenGL that allow you use the same code base across platforms. Only a extremely small portion of the code is going to be platform specific. It is too the point where its not worth worrying about. Supporting Linux and OSX is the right thing because gaming should be agnostic to the platform.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby kopi » March 27th, 2012, 11:50 am

He should post a link to that ripten interview on the update page ...

Edit: What worries me a bit is that EA license deal. I hope there is no legal drama pending :?
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby skiesbleed » March 27th, 2012, 12:22 pm

I definitely don't want extensive social features, but something similar to what Demon's Souls and Dark Souls did would be welcome. Just like they did, make it optional, but I think allowing for a bit of bleed over between people's single player games could be cool.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Greenpee » March 27th, 2012, 12:31 pm

kopi wrote:What worries me a bit is that EA license deal. I hope there is no legal drama pending
The same thing crossed my mind, but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Fargo's clearly seen a lot in the business to recognize and make a good deal. He said they're cool. But, what could happen is :shock: Wasteland 3, by EA, if No2 does well on the pie charts.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby The_A_Drain » March 27th, 2012, 12:35 pm

Greenpee wrote:
kopi wrote:What worries me a bit is that EA license deal. I hope there is no legal drama pending
The same thing crossed my mind, but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Fargo's clearly seen a lot in the business to recognize and make a good deal. He said they're cool. But, what could happen is :shock: Wasteland 3, by EA, if No2 does well on the pie charts.


It's happened before and whether it's with this project or someone else's it'll happen again.

Fortunately it's only a name, they can't take the talent, hard work and dedication of the developers. So if it does happen, any future potential sequels will just change name and be another spiritual successor in the same way Fallout was.

It could be called Gamma Burst or Mushroom Cloud for all I care so long as the game is good :D
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Brother None » March 27th, 2012, 1:11 pm

The name belongs to InXile. EA is involved, presumably, in whether or not content/locations from Wasteland can be used in this follow-up, and in negotiating the re-release of the first game. I wouldn't expect any problems.
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby God is Dog backwards » March 27th, 2012, 2:17 pm

The latest interview restored my faith in the project. I feel it should be mailed out to backers as Update n.7, to cancel out n.6 :)
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Re: Kickstarter Drive Update #6

Postby Workbench » March 27th, 2012, 2:52 pm

God is Dog backwards wrote:The latest interview restored my faith in the project. I feel it should be mailed out to backers as Update n.7, to cancel out n.6 :)


+1 on the update suggestion
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