My Thoughts

[mrpoochpants]

So let me first preface this by saying I haven't played Wasteland, HOWEVER, i have played Fallout 1, 2, tactics, 3, and New Vegas into the Mutha Fuggin Ground. Not all of these thoughts are necessarily specific to Wasteland, and even more are not within the scope of the game, but the ideal game of my dreams includes some/all of these. With that said, here's my thoughts:

Survival elements:
-Limited resources (expanded below)

-A desire/need to constantly scavenge, and that process of scavenging to get you somewhere. In the newer Fallout games (3 and NV) there's a serious abundance of gear, and even modding less gear does not entirely place the game into a scenario where you are working at surviving. It is hard to get the feel right, but the concept of "do i want to fight this baddie? Is it worth it? Will it kill me or is it worth the risk?". Basically, a situation similar to what you might do in a real-world scenario of the same (or perhaps in a zombie apoc scenario).

-Building elements. This is something that i believe really makes any game better, the idea that not only do your choices make a difference but you can build something of an empire and make use of the resources from that empire, etc. A great example is Mount and Blade Warband. Warband combines elements of third-person warfare with strategy world-conquering. To have a similar mechanic, even if to something as small as your own home or farmstead, perhaps including the training of guards, and the constant attacks of bandits, etc. would be fantastic.

-As many "what would i do if this were happening in the real world" scenarios as possible. If i were stranded in a giant desert and i found a well, i might try to start a town there. If i were in a zombie apocalypse i might try to make a new town out of a skyscraper by using the building natural limited points of entry and large amount of space due to its vertical nature. Floors x through y would be locations for growing food, and the roof would be littered with solar and wing generators. Escape routes and vehicles would then be stored and planned for.

-An OPEN world. My thoughts are akin to Skyrim x10 (or whatever is possible) with as much in between, even if a good chuck of it is randomly generated from combat to gear, etc. As much replay-ability as possible.

-Varied weapons choices that advance as you progress but are each unique. To elaborate: Fallout 3 had a VERY limited number of guns while fallout 2 had many guns (yes!) but most of which were essentially carbon copies of other guns. Having guns that not only progress (not just a +1) but have a unique feel (perhaps even limits on available ammo) are ideal. Fallout 3 had few guns, but each gun had a certain feel. Fallout 2 guns were varied but many were very similar. Wasteland should have many and varied guns, giving a sense of long-term progression while still giving a sense of "F-Yea! I got the xxxx." Only later to have the same thing happen again with the "yyyy" gun.

-To further combine my idea of building and scavenging: progression. It would be amazing if the scope and concept of the game evolved as you played. To be a bit more specific let's say you start out as a lowly scavenger, you work your way up to employee of a local scavenger group or merc group, then you lead a group, then you lead several groups, then you lead a town, then you lead a city, then you lead several cities, and then you lead a nation. During all these steps, the complexity of each process is still there. Granted some elements would work nicely to include a "micromanagement assistant", something akin to a manager, but the overall process and interaction of the final step would not change your ability to still run that small merc company or run a small town while you also run a nation. Again: progression, an increase in overall scope. That would be amazing.

-Its cliche' but gun mods. mods in general in fact. Any way to customize my play experience not only through my character but through my equipment, perhaps specializing a character toward a play style. a stealthy guy with armor addons that increase stealth while having silencers and laser sights. A sniper with a guile suit and a high magnification sniper rifle, or rifle with a scope, etc.
These are just a few of my thoughts and i'll be expanding on this thread/post as i think of more.

[Harpo]

Survival elements:
-Limited resources (expanded below)

-A desire/need to constantly scavenge, and that process of scavenging to get you somewhere. In the newer Fallout games (3 and NV) there's a serious abundance of gear, and even modding less gear does not entirely place the game into a scenario where you are working at surviving. It is hard to get the feel right, but the concept of "do i want to fight this baddie? Is it worth it? Will it kill me or is it worth the risk?". Basically, a situation similar to what you might do in a real-world scenario of the same (or perhaps in a zombie apoc scenario).

I really like the limited resource feel and that is one of the most appealing characteristics of a post-apocalyptic game. I'm glad there are others who find this important. However, when I have tried to stress this in other threads it has become apparent that there are two camps here.

On one side are the fans that want scarce resources and ammo preservation. On the other side are the ones that say "that wasn't in Wasteland 1, so shut your mouth".

Personally, I really hope that they listen to all the fans that want limited resources and [at least] include it in some kind of hardcore mode as I suggested in a game mechanics thread. Then both camps get their wishes granted. There's even a way to do it without wasting any significant amount of inXile resources.

[mrpoochpants]

While Wasteland 2 is a sequel, that doesn't necessarily mean that is has to be a direct sequel and that it can evolve, or become more complex, as time goes on. That said, limiting resources, particularly if you were to make bullets currency, would make the game much more involved and interesting. Not only would you not want to "face roll" areas, but you might consider the ramifications of your actions more closely. Additionally, you might have the option to do the "moral" thing or the "I NEED BULLETS!" thing.

in most games, particularly games focused around survival, i enjoy hoarding and working toward a stockpile of goods. This game will hopefully be no different.

[The_A_Drain]

-Limited resources (expanded below)
.

I really like the limited resource feel and that is one of the most appealing characteristics of a post-apocalyptic game. I'm glad there are others who find this important. However, when I have tried to stress this in other threads it has become apparent that there are two camps here.

On one side are the fans that want scarce resources and ammo preservation. On the other side are the ones that say "that wasn't in Wasteland 1, so shut your mouth".

Personally I like to hoard items in-game even in games where resources aren't limited much, like Baldur's Gate, all that changes is I hoard rare or uncommon resources.

One of the things that attracts me most to the kind of post-apoc, or survival (be that horror or otherwise) games is a limited resource, to the point even where if that resource runs out it's gone like in Resident Evil.

Whether or not Wasteland is suitable for that kind of hardcore survival edge I'm not sure perhaps it doesn't, but it's something I would not mind even though I'm sure my hoarding instincts will be satisfied regardless.

But yeah, that quote is getting tired and old and is a perfect example of why I left a bunch of the oldschool RPG websites.

[Proton Axeman]

Resources were pretty limited in the first Wasteland, with the major caveat that once you got Power Armor, most enemies did little to no damage against you and you were free to beat them to death with fruit, credit cards or broken toasters at little risk.

Shopkeepers never refreshed their finite inventory, locations never restocked themselves, and there was never any equipment dropped from random encounters. Theoretically, it was possible to completely run out of ammunition -- one of the reasons I was always cautious of giving fully automatic weapons to an NPC, since they burnt a full magazine if and only if *they* felt like it. While money was unlimited (with high luck, high gambling skill, and enough initial capital to survive a bad run, you were basically guaranteed to make money over the long run!) the limited shopkeeper inventory meant that you still couldn't buy ammo that had stopped being there.

This was more true of armor, early on; each kevlar shirt or suit was quite a find.

[Drool]

Shopkeepers never refreshed their finite inventory

More importantly, two of the shops (Needles and Quartz) shared the same inventory. When one ran out of 7.62, so did the other one.

[venceremos]

I echo the sentiment that resources should be very limited. I would wish to avoid the feeling of abundance in all forms. Ideally, since this is a barren wasteland filled with scavengers, I would like to feel constantly in want of even the most basic of things (such as food and ammunition) throughout most of the game. I understand how extreme this might sound and so look forward to at least being able to tick a "hardcore" option or somesuch.

[kasra5004]

Well, limited resources is really important for creating the feeling of a post-apocalyptic game. In order to compare, I think fo3 had relatively limited resources( I don't know about you ,but sometimes I was forced to use melee as a result of ammo shortage) but fo ne was easier and offered much more resources.

[Harpo]

Well, limited resources is really important for creating the feeling of a post-apocalyptic game. In order to compare, I think fo3 had relatively limited resources( I don't about you ,but sometimes I was forced to use melee as a result of ammo shortage) but fo ne was easier and offered much more resources.

The thing you mention here is a terrific example of one of the reasons you want limited resources. In addition to feeding the post-apocalyptic vibes like mentioned before, it can also shift more emphasis towards close combat. You might save the ammo for that fierce raider band you intend to ambush and instead beat the poorly equipped slavers you face right now with military batons and combat knives - or even brawl unarmed!

I have made this point in another thread; game designers of these type of games often come up with excellent ideas for cool close combat weapons, but its quite few of them that are effective once you have unlimited ammo for your ranged weapons. I would like to see a mix where close combat can be just as effective as ranged combat all the way through the game - although getting to your opponent if he carries a rifle should also pose a threat!

There are probably more ways to make them equally lethal, but the need to preserve ammo is a good incitement for charging your opponent (or sneak up on him) with that army issue combat knife! A fair point was made in another thread though and that is limited ammo for all opponents. The ones that have ranged weapons should run out of ammo sooner or later so you can use combat tactics to force close combat. If all opponents are ranged at all times close combat might get useless again.

[EcoGuy]

Totally agree with the limited resources. Makes the game realistic, filled with tension and was used to good affect in Metro 2033. To go further, the scavenging would help alleviate the mini-quest issue some people dislike. You would have to go out to scavenge if you want to survive or want ammo or food. It would be about survival.
This by far would be on the top of my list of wants along with requirements to eat and sleep with negative attribute/skill impacts for sleep deprivation.

I cannot remember the game from decades ago but you always were worried about resting to heal up since that next random encounter while you rested might be worse than continuing on ... awesome.

[krellen]

Theoretically, it was possible to completely run out of ammunition

Either there was enough that it would never seem scarce to those seeking "scarcity", or I'm ridiculously good at conservation of ammo, because I have never had a run of Wasteland in which I depleted the ammo.

Heck, in my currently playthrough I have so many power packs I'm having difficulty picking up more. Maybe I just don't full-auto enough.

[Vryheid]

I've already stressed in other threads why there are better means to limit ammo usage than having some nonsensical limited ammo supply in shops. Wasteland doesn't take place over a few days, it takes place over several months- and you're telling me that during all that time, the shopkeepers could be bothered to restock their wares even once? How are NPCs supposed to defend themselves without any ammo? How are players suppose to explore once they hit this arbitrary ammo limit and suddenly find that they have no means of attacking enemies outside of melee weapons?

Luckily, the devs seem to have a track record with their later games in not being as sadistic as some of the posters here would like them to be.

As for the weapons in Fallout 3, I do agree that they were in general a lot more unique and interesting than what you had in the first two games. The Rock-It launcher was a pretty good example of this, letting you turn basically anything you could find into usable ammo. Also that railroad spike gun. Good stuff.

[Celtic927]

Limited Resources for a good portion of the game adds a nice feel to the pos-Apoc setting plus it makes you more crafty about Survival

[ravenshrike]

Theoretically, it was possible to completely run out of ammunition

Either there was enough that it would never seem scarce to those seeking "scarcity", or I'm ridiculously good at conservation of ammo, because I have never had a run of Wasteland in which I depleted the ammo.

Heck, in my currently playthrough I have so many power packs I'm having difficulty picking up more. Maybe I just don't full-auto enough.

The only reason for full auto is suppressive fire. Otherwise it's burst or single shot.

[Drool]

Heck, in my currently playthrough I have so many power packs I'm having difficulty picking up more. Maybe I just don't full-auto enough.

I hit that shortage on one of my earliest playthroughs where I was ripping clips pretty much every combat in the Sewers because those stupid cyborgs were really wrecking my shit. I've only had it happen once, but I distinctly remember it happening. Maybe I had also fought the hidden Temple Guardians by the entrance. That can be an ammo suck too, but the XP is pretty sweet.

[mrpoochpants]

As for the weapons in Fallout 3, I do agree that they were in general a lot more unique and interesting than what you had in the first two games. The Rock-It launcher was a pretty good example of this, letting you turn basically anything you could find into usable ammo. Also that railroad spike gun. Good stuff.

The biggest flaw with F3's weapons, however, while each was unique, is there was no variation of them. I suppose my ideal concept of weapons would be akin to how they work in BF3 (or other games of the type) where there are plenty of weapons, they each have a different feel, some work better in certain situations, but on top of that add another layer of complexity by increasing tiers of weapons so as to continue having options for upgrading.

Also, seriously, gun addons. Customization options would be amazing. after the first few play throughs i NEVER played F3 or NV without addon mods (or more addons in NV's case).

Also, the idea isnt to limit ammo in the sense that there would be a cap. The idea is to limit the influx of resources, from ammo, to health packs, to whatever. The idea being that you would want to scavenge and build a supply of goods, perhaps even having an option to create a supply of goods, perhaps a farmstead? (which filters into my thoughts on building an empire). The game should feel like you have to fight a little to survive, not just hand you everything you need. In F3, i REGULARLY had so much ammo, health packs, and general supplies that i actually started to just dump it all.

Think of playing something like F3 as a scavenger/hunter, you're constantly looking out for new stuff, weighing your options, and immersing yourself in the world by way of your limited resources. That doesnt mean you dont have the money, etc. to buy what you want, only that you dont end up with 10,000,000 bottle caps within the first 20 minutes - make money useful and of value. have hoarding play a positive role, not necessarily an integral but a valid route to gameplay. Guns wouldnt be particularly inexpensive and ammo almost certainly would cost more, food wouldnt be exactly cheap, and scavenged goods would be king. Also, perhaps a crafting system so you could build things you need and perhaps sell the rest for profit? again, im like building while i destroy.

[EcoGuy]

As for the weapons in Fallout 3, I do agree that they were in general a lot more unique and interesting than what you had in the first two games. The Rock-It launcher was a pretty good example of this, letting you turn basically anything you could find into usable ammo. Also that railroad spike gun. Good stuff.

The biggest flaw with F3's weapons, however, while each was unique, is there was no variation of them. I suppose my ideal concept of weapons would be akin to how they work in BF3 (or other games of the type) where there are plenty of weapons, they each have a different feel, some work better in certain situations, but on top of that add another layer of complexity by increasing tiers of weapons so as to continue having options for upgrading.

Also, seriously, gun addons. Customization options would be amazing. after the first few play throughs i NEVER played F3 or NV without addon mods (or more addons in NV's case).

Also, the idea isnt to limit ammo in the sense that there would be a cap. The idea is to limit the influx of resources, from ammo, to health packs, to whatever. The idea being that you would want to scavenge and build a supply of goods, perhaps even having an option to create a supply of goods, perhaps a farmstead? (which filters into my thoughts on building an empire). The game should feel like you have to fight a little to survive, not just hand you everything you need. In F3, i REGULARLY had so much ammo, health packs, and general supplies that i actually started to just dump it all.

Think of playing something like F3 as a scavenger/hunter, you're constantly looking out for new stuff, weighing your options, and immersing yourself in the world by way of your limited resources. That doesnt mean you dont have the money, etc. to buy what you want, only that you dont end up with 10,000,000 bottle caps within the first 20 minutes - make money useful and of value. have hoarding play a positive role, not necessarily an integral but a valid route to gameplay. Guns wouldnt be particularly inexpensive and ammo almost certainly would cost more, food wouldnt be exactly cheap, and scavenged goods would be king. Also, perhaps a crafting system so you could build things you need and perhaps sell the rest for profit? again, im like building while i destroy.

Couldn't agree with you more!!!