Kickstarter Drive Update #6

[imhotep]

Regarding external funding and Kickstarters. That HC Tactical Shooter or Takedown or whatever it will be called, is openly telling that venture capital investors have also expressed interest and are willing to kick in after enough money is raised:

We have investors (not publishers, but VC folks) who are interested but unsure if there is truly a market for real tac shooters. This seed money will be enough to fund startup and show the investors the market is real.

This is definitely a major point why I am not willing to pledge money for that campaign. The VC people are very eager - perhaps more than HC fans - to guard their investments and contribute to them. And they will ensure their interests before signing the contract.

[Dark Like Snipes]

I've been curious as to that aspect of Kickstarter as well. Not really in relation to Wasteland 2 (as you've said, I can't imagine why InXile would bother with it since the KS funds will be enough to make the game already), but more specifically with something like The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga). Those guys only asked for $100,000 total to make their own tactical-RPG complete with hand-drawn 2D animation. I'm not familiar with how much games like that cost, but I've got to believe it's going to be many times more than a measly hundred grand. I hope they're not putting themselves at risk of collecting the money from backers, but then end up not having enough to actually finish the game.

Banner has the advantage of being a passion project that was a ways into production already, and that it's only being worked on by 3 people primarily, which is pretty amazing given how the game is looking already. They got their $200,000, which is enough to give them an income of about 6 or 7,000 a month each (minus health insurance for their families and all the other assorted business expenses) until the game is slated to be released in October. The extra money they're getting will most likely be used to flesh out the game even more, like hiring people to do music and voice work among a plethora of other things, and of course contributor rewards. It's a good system for those guys even though they already had a lot of the game done already. With projects starting from scratch like the Double Fine game and Wasteland, the development team size is pretty much based entirely on the budget they get at the end of the kickstarter drive, and as good as I'm sure Banner is going to be, I'd like for the Wasteland development team to be a bit larger than 3 people, which of course makes a higher sum necessary Maybe at some point high profile investor temptation is going to become more of a concern for kickstarter projects, but I think everyone is going to be watching how these initial games turn out before they all start jumping on the crazy train.

[Brother None]

So pretty much like the GLBT topic? Don't warn the people making attacks, or temp-ban them, or tell them to leave the thread, just...lock the thread completely?

Warnings have been handed out. Do not assume that just because you don't see them they do not occur. The same was true for the GLBTQ thread and other less-than-ideal behavior at that time, about a dozen people received warnings. That said, yes, locking threads is a modding tool I'm not too afraid of using.

I know you're just one mod, but come on, there's room for a civil discussion here.

Not really, because there isn't actually much of anything to discuss. That's why I'm advising people to just let the issue lie until we actually have a design proposal to discuss.

[TheEmissary]

Well, the fact that this game is funded by kickstarter means that he is dependent on backers money. Is he? Except that now with the success of kickstarter, he could pull in big money investors who demand this feature for one reason or another.

Him and his team are going to be relying solely on kickstarter funds, yes. Could investors swoop in and offer him a huge investment, unlikely as it is? Maybe, I'm not too sure what the legal ramifications are between kickstarter projects and other investment firms, but it would be a huge dick move on Fargo's part if he accepted, which makes it pretty damned unlikely even if kickstarter contracts don't forbid it. Going with a publisher would violate the spirit of the old style RPG, since they would want to make numerous changes and modern "updates" in an attempt to make the game profitable, and is not what Fargo is envisioning. Watch the video they made for the initial kickstarter post for Wasteland 2 to get a better idea of why he doesn't want to work with a big brand publisher for this game.

Dick move or not, thats what's gonna happen with kickstarter games, maybe not with this one, but with a lot of others. FTL just signed a deal with Valve.

And investors don't necessarily have to be publishers, could be anyone. You know, doing alittle data mining and market research on the side (thats how facebook makes money).

Being distributed on Steam isn't the same as being published by Valve. InXile already said they were going to distribute wasteland on Steam and other Digital Distribution services. You shouldn't see signing a distribution deal as "Selling out". It is really no different than trying to get your game on the shelf at walmart or gamestop.

[krellen]

Remember, we're funding Brian's vision of the game, not ours.

My initial read of the plan was that my vision and Brian's vision were pretty close to one another. There's a few key points I've been told we're going to get some clarification on that are vital to that, but ultimately no, I did not pledge money just to give Mr. Fargo a carte blanch to do whatever he wished. Nowhere in his pitch did he say "I'm going to make the game I want to make"; in fact, (while this is paraphrased) I'm pretty sure it said "I'm going to make the game THE FANS want".

[ButchinMelancholy]

Perhaps he thought that the fans wanted the game he would like to make.

But seriously, just relax people. We have some time to see what's coming, all this mess is just heavy for nothing that's worth it... I am not saying that this question doesn't matter, don't get me wrong, just that some people are letting themselves emphasize on this and they now focus so much on it that it becomes insane...

[betongborr]

The video was great and i laughed really hard at some parts. I like the cynic tone and satire of stupid mainstream media. The next video should present more about the visions and maybe some of the work already done without giving away too much. In the end I want to be surprised when the game is done/near completion. Nowdays some developers give away way too much info.

I trust Brian despite a couple of lackluster games from the last decade (choplifter look a bit fun althought) . I think this will turn out great without having the hands tied upp by a noosy/pushy publisher and by going back to something that worked so well in the past and many of us loved.

'As for the whole "social" thing. I think it could turn out better to use it and play around with it in a future Bards Tale game. If you guys ever do another Bards Tale it should be a social experience.

[GROUNDZERO]

Perhaps he thought that the fans wanted the game he would like to make.

But seriously, just relax people. We have some time to see what's coming, all this mess is just heavy for nothing that's worth it... I am not saying that this question doesn't matter, don't get me wrong, just that some people are letting themselves emphasize on this and they now focus so much on it that it becomes insane...

All this grief could have been easily avoided. Whe had a thread that asked where the fans would like to see the money applied. Where in the Hell is the option "social features"? People are obviously passioned about Fallout/Wasteland, passioned enough to transfer money, spend time posting ideas, reading other people´s posts, etc,...

If we are not going to contribute to the project with what we can, what is the point? Of course that the game is not going to have all that we want it to have, that is not possible. But wasting time with something that NO ONE asked, in a game with a tight budget? I love Fargo´s past work, and i thank him for it, but this was clearly a mistake, considering that he makes fun of "friend requests" in the pitch video.

All he had to do was take a 30 seconds look at the forums to give people a nice incentive at 2 million. Instead, he decided to scare the shit out of everyone and we can tell that he kinda suspected that this was going to happen, by the way he wrote things. Worst, he failed to present the proposal and make the poll as soon as possible, making us worry to death.

AND he stopped tweeting.

So, i support him and his team, i just think that he made a HUGE mistake. We all do it sometimes.

P.S. - This is what the Poll says:

"We've already announced that if we can get to $1.5M we'll be able to focus on porting to Mac and Linux. As funding continues to be strong, we are curious what other "additions" you would like us to explore?

We will take your suggestions very seriously. Please tell us your Top 5."

[krellen]

AND he stopped tweeting.

That doesn't mean anything. Tweeting is his day job; it's the weekend.

[TheEmissary]

AND he stopped tweeting.

I think he probably feels he explained his position on the feature and keeps getting hammered with the same questions. Probably just letting the fan created controversy simmer down. Or it could just be that its a weekend and he is doing other things.

[Signal]

AND he stopped tweeting.

That doesn't mean anything. Tweeting is his day job; it's the weekend.

I thought it was just something he did for fun? I've seen him post tweets pretty late at night when I'm sure he was out of the office. In fact, he made a tweet about being right in the middle of waiting in line to see Hunger Games or something.

[ButchinMelancholy]

P.S. - This is what the Poll says:

"We've already announced that if we can get to $1.5M we'll be able to focus on porting to Mac and Linux. As funding continues to be strong, we are curious what other "additions" you would like us to explore?

We will take your suggestions very seriously. Please tell us your Top 5."

Yes, and I think he did. That's what I said previously here or somewhere else, people just focused on some additional (and by the way optional) features and seems to forget that he primarily has insured us that his main concerns were to make the world bigger and better etc...

But well, I guess we can all agree for now that it wasn't something expected, and we shall look after what he will explain about that (soon hopefully), then judge if it's worth giving it a chance or not. They just have some ideas, and assured us that they will never do something against our will, but are people willing to trust that they could have some real good ideas that we wouldn't imagine?

[Lanatir]

Well, i am rather sure that Brian and the people will do the right thing and forget about including social features. I will not let every good thing that he said before be ruined by this idea of his of including social features.
i am sure he will make a great game, and i will not pull my funding support.
I will make sure to express my concerns tho. I will do so now, i will do so up to the moment when the kickstarter campaign is over, and i will keep doing so when the development process is going on to the very last day of beta testing. Brian wanted to hear Wasteland and old school rpg fans, and hear he will me. Im no software developer, but i do have a firm grip of what im expecting from this upcoming game. I know that not ALL my expectations will be met, but i will at least make sure that my oppinion is out here. I think it is rather safe to assume that the majority of us is againt including any kind of social aspect into the game, and he will see that. So why bother. Calm down everyone.

[stonetoes]

Warnings have been handed out. Do not assume that just because you don't see them they do not occur. The same was true for the GLBTQ thread and other less-than-ideal behavior at that time, about a dozen people received warnings. That said, yes, locking threads is a modding tool I'm not too afraid of using.

I apologise. I found that thread really distressing to read and my (incorrect) perception that nothing was being done tainted my view of these boards pretty badly.

[Kiya]

AND he stopped tweeting.

That doesn't mean anything. Tweeting is his day job; it's the weekend.

I thought it was just something he did for fun? I've seen him post tweets pretty late at night when I'm sure he was out of the office. In fact, he made a tweet about being right in the middle of waiting in line to see Hunger Games or something.

Well folks can stop worrying his tweeting has resumed - I particularly like this one:-

"The word "Social" is a four letter word with extra letters."

Lol! No kidding Brian

He also said he'll be posting a blog and update to the forums shortly.

[ButchinMelancholy]

"The word "Social" is a four letter word with extra letters."

Don't get it.

[Kiya]

"The word "Social" is a four letter word with extra letters."

Don't get it.

Ah - for those for whom english is not a first language a 'four letter word' is a way of saying that something is a bad swear word - the kind of swear word that is usually filtered out on forums like these

[torque]

"The word "Social" is a four letter word with extra letters."

Don't get it.

I hope he meant SHIT, although I'm not sure if this makes any sense

[ButchinMelancholy]

Ok thanks, that makes more sense now.

[EcoGuy]

I agree with you Emissary. I really didn't have an opinion one way or the other on the four letter word with extra letters nor do I on modding. I just want a big world to get lost in and spending time on modding tools would be as much or more of a sink for dollars than the four letter word. But I didn't get fired up. People came to the project because of Brian's name, reputation and love of the original. Let him make the game he did well enough without all of us last time. Lets stop the covering our ears and stomping our feet like two years olds. We cannot get everything we want but I am sure we will get a good game. Lets come back together as backers of a great initiative and push for $2M. I would love to hit that $2 Mil mark ....