Kickstarter Drive Update #6

[Hiver]

Reading all these posts is like watching Animal Farm play out before me. We free ourselves from publishers only to find the fan base is just as bad. Some are more equal than others I suppose. If you guys can't have faith in Brian Fargo than what does that say about us as a fan base? We really are awful collectively. We deserve whatever game we get with this kind of attitude. You guys missed the entire point of kickstarter we don't need to be our own EA.

Any suggestions, specifics.... anything but this general clap trap that can be understood in several ways...?

At all?

[Kide]

No Hiver. The arguing in here is pointless for them to read through. The thing that we need info about the social feature and the fact that you and other's can make educated decision on if you wish to reduce your pledge or not, is something you need information about from the developers. And they have been very open to us at this point I think, and they said they would give more information about the social feature so they are working with us.

[Workbench]

Reading all these posts is like watching Animal Farm play out before me. We free ourselves from publishers only to find the fan base is just as bad. Some are more equal than others I suppose. If you guys can't have faith in Brian Fargo than what does that say about us as a fan base? We really are awful collectively. We deserve whatever game we get with this kind of attitude. You guys missed the entire point of kickstarter we don't need to be our own EA.

No, we simply have been "betrayed" too often. You can only stomp on a creatures heart for so long until it lashes out when you just hint at a beating.

[ButchinMelancholy]

I just want some people to think a minute about that concept, because it worries me a bit how they can't understand properly what Kickstarter is all about.
It's not because you're funding a project that you are owning it, again. If you're interested in it, that should be 'cause you think it will be good, and that you'll appreciate it, but noone is going to make the game for you in particular. So whether you participate because you trust that it will fit you, or whether you do nothing and have nothing. But noone will never, ever, do a game for you alone, so just be mature and reasonable (or realistic at least) a damn minute...
And if you're not happy eventually, you can try to do it by yourself, and see where it takes you...

But there is no way you can act like if you had any power upon it. If you're not happy, then take your money back, and be quiet.
If you feel concerned, be constructive, wait and see, and stop uttering any imperial demand of your own please; that's just selfish, silly, and inappropriate.

[Manbearpig]

Reading all these posts is like watching Animal Farm play out before me. We free ourselves from publishers only to find the fan base is just as bad. Some are more equal than others I suppose. If you guys can't have faith in Brian Fargo than what does that say about us as a fan base? We really are awful collectively. We deserve whatever game we get with this kind of attitude. You guys missed the entire point of kickstarter we don't need to be our own EA.

Any suggestions, specifics.... anything but this general clap trap that can be understood in several ways...?

At all?

Apparently you don't care for the fact that I've pointed out your flaws. You can try to come at me but I've already dissected your failings perfectly. You should just take your money and leave if any innovation bothers you this much. No one will miss you and this project will be better for having lost your negativity.

[ButchinMelancholy]

God forbid, yeah?

I mean, to think they would actually read and consider forums posts and threads as expressions of opinions by their backers... the very thought strikes chill deep in my heart.

I just meant that they should have the presence of mind to understand that this topic has said it all since a long time now, and you're not adding anything sadly...

[Dark Like Snipes]

Flaming and trolling aside, I think this is a generally bad idea. It was an interesting concept in the Souls series, but it barely makes sense in those games and would make absolutely none in Wasteland 2, where you're supposed to be one of the first "civilized" individuals going to your various destinations. At best it would be a platform for bad jokes ("Amazing chest ahead"), but it would most likely just serve as an engine for griefing and trolling like in the Souls games, especially if players can type their own messages. I'm not terribly interested in having immersion broken by finding areas littered with messages in bottles vividly describing how homosexual I am. The same thing with items; for the broad majority it'll just be a systemized cycle of "Here, you throw this away" garbage that no one wants, with a small number of people that trade items between their friends in obscure locations.

Maybe I'm pessimistic but I don't see the system working well at all. The game is going to be operating on a shoe-string budget even if they do reach Double Fines numbers, and getting all this online and netcode stuff sorted out for a feature that will be largely useless even if it's utilized correctly a couple months after release doesn't seem worth it at all. I doubt very many peoples hearts are going to be broken if this doesn't make it in since it wasn't even mentioned until the most recent update, and I doubt the social system was the tipping point for the people that donated the next 66k. The old-school RPGs got by fine without any sort of connectivity, and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I would much rather the time and resources go into making the game world more expansive than any sort of online component.

[stonetoes]

No, we simply have been "betrayed" too often. You can only stomp on a creatures heart for so long until it lashes out when you just hint at a beating.

Well, maybe Kickstarter as a format isn't for everybody then? Remember, it relies on the honour system. Most of the promotional material has been upbeat and optimistic, maybe people with this level of scepticism/pessimism/cynicism should find another way to support game devs who make the games they want. Many of us will see it as an over-reaction, but I guess you guys have to protect your stomped hearts.

[ButchinMelancholy]

Here's a wise comment stonetoes.

[Workbench]

No, we simply have been "betrayed" too often. You can only stomp on a creatures heart for so long until it lashes out when you just hint at a beating.

Well, maybe Kickstarter as a format isn't for everybody then? Remember, it relies on the honour system. Most of the promotional material has been upbeat and optimistic, maybe people with this level of scepticism/pessimism/cynicism should find another way to support game devs who make the games they want. Many of us will see it as an over-reaction, but I guess you guys have to protect your stomped hearts.

No it means the kickstarter criteria should be clear from the start. if a project needs 900k and never expects to reach 2 mil, it should still outline what will be done IF it reaches that goal.

These new "feautures" being announced have an influence on the core game that was outlined before any of these new features were known. Therefore this changes the core project into something else than was promised at the beginning.

[Manbearpig]

No, we simply have been "betrayed" too often. You can only stomp on a creatures heart for so long until it lashes out when you just hint at a beating.

Well, maybe Kickstarter as a format isn't for everybody then? Remember, it relies on the honour system. Most of the promotional material has been upbeat and optimistic, maybe people with this level of scepticism/pessimism/cynicism should find another way to support game devs who make the games they want. Many of us will see it as an over-reaction, but I guess you guys have to protect your stomped hearts.

No it means the kickstarter criteria should be clear from the start. if a project needs 900k and never expects to reach 2 mil, it should still outline what will be done IF it reaches that goal.

These new "feautures" being announced have an influence on the core game that was outlined before any of these new features were known. Therefore this changes the core project into something else than was promised at the beginning.

If the project becomes something you cannot back than you still retain the option to remove your support and find something you do like.

[ButchinMelancholy]

@Workbench: And how can you say that when you actually don't know anything substancial about it?

[Workbench]

If the project becomes something you cannot back than you still retain the option to remove your support and find something you do like.

Yes but it feels like going home with a girl after a great night out for some spectacular love making only to find she has a poster of Bieber above her bed. sure you have the option to back out...

[kopi]

It was an interesting concept in the Souls series, but it barely makes sense in those games and would make absolutely none in Wasteland 2, ...

I agree. But what I'm asking myself is, why does brian want this?

If it's so controversial among backers and kickstarter was doing just fine without it, why not just putting it aside?

[Hiver]

No Hiver. The arguing in here is pointless for them to read through. The thing that we need info about the social feature and the fact that you and other's can make educated decision on if you wish to reduce your pledge or not, is something you need information about from the developers. And they have been very open to us at this point I think, and they said they would give more information about the social feature so they are working with us.

as ive said in the previous post, to that other guy...

I can see how things are baffling to you.


Fargo and inXile have been nothing but straight upfront and clear and honest in representing their view and intentions so far.

Mentioning this latest issue is a statement to that. I wholeheartedly approve.

I dont see any reason in thinking that deviating from that path will suddenly become a better option.

I just want some people to think a minute about that concept, because it worries me a bit how they can't understand properly what Kickstarter is all about.
It's not because you're funding a project that you are owning it, again.

They own their money and right to know on what and how it will be used, which Fargo and Inxile are understanding perfectly well, unlike you.

Apparently you don't care for the fact that I've pointed out your flaws. You can try to come at me but I've already dissected your failings perfectly. You should just take your money and leave if any innovation bothers you this much. No one will miss you and this project will be better for having lost your negativity.

Hahahahaha.... what a funny guy. Never even saw anything even resembling that from you. Care to elucidate me more? Keep that imagination running. Youll need it for more strawman arguments and ad hominems.

God forbid, yeah?

I mean, to think they would actually read and consider forums posts and threads as expressions of opinions by their backers... the very thought strikes chill deep in my heart.

I just meant that they should have the presence of mind to understand that this topic has said it all since a long time now, and you're not adding anything sadly...

I think they have more presence of mind than a lot of posters like you who seem to know their minds and failings and consider this opinion to make them entitled to offer advice and make fake evaluations of what others are saying or thinking.

What im adding is perfectly clear. And simple.

The fact that you think its a swell trick to misinterpret it in the ways that would somehow validate your trolling and possible mental incapability is pretty translucent too budddy.

[Hiver]

If the project becomes something you cannot back than you still retain the option to remove your support and find something you do like.

Only if you know whats the dealio before deadline runs out.

@Workbench: And how can you say that when you actually don't know anything substancial about it?

How can you say anything before knowing anything substantial about it?
Or even oppose knowing exactly whats what about it.

[Workbench]

@Workbench: And how can you say that when you actually don't know anything substancial about it?

"This is probably the last chance for a Wasteland sequel. We have tried to pitch this game multiple times to game publishers, but they’ve balked. They don’t think there’s any interest in a solid, old school type of game."

From fargo himself. Let's not be kidding ourselves here, none of those old classics had any social nonsense to polute the experience.

This type of game doesnt need it. Whats next, social books? Your friend says the next chapter is really exciting !! It has no place in an old skool experience.

[Manbearpig]

If the project becomes something you cannot back than you still retain the option to remove your support and find something you do like.

Only if you know whats the dealio before deadline runs out.

@Workbench: And how can you say that when you actually don't know anything substancial about it?

How can you say anything before knowing anything substantial about it?
Or even oppose knowing exactly whats what about it.

In this case you do and if you feel so strongly then vote with your dollars and find a project that you can be happy with.

[Dark Like Snipes]

It was an interesting concept in the Souls series, but it barely makes sense in those games and would make absolutely none in Wasteland 2, ...

I agree. But what I'm asking myself is, why does brian want this?

If it's so controversial among backers and kickstarter was doing just fine without it, why not just putting it aside?

My guess is because it is actually a pretty neat idea, especially for a console game, but I would consider it not a very practical one for a PC game. Especially if all it's going to be is a message and item delivery service. The Souls games had player invasions and ally summoning to go along with the message stuff, which wouldn't really fit in the offline world of Wasteland. Getting all the network and connection infrastructure in place to make it all function would take a lot of time and resources for ultimately little benefit. I can see the appeal in it, it is a cool idea that has only been done in a couple games, but I really think it's a bad fit for this one, and if this thread is any indication Brian will drop it.

[ButchinMelancholy]

I just want some people to think a minute about that concept, because it worries me a bit how they can't understand properly what Kickstarter is all about.
It's not because you're funding a project that you are owning it, again.

They own their money and right to know on what and how it will be used, which Fargo and Inxile are understanding perfectly well, unlike you.

In the same comment:

If you're not happy, then take your money back

Which perfectly means that I, naturally, recognize the right people have to do what they want with their own money.
That's just what I call bad faith... and you're trying so hard to argue on something that noone would follow (who would prevent anyone to legitimately take his money back here?) that I can call it inconsistency too.
And finally, I said (yet in the same comment):

If you feel concerned, be constructive, wait and see, and stop uttering any imperial demand of your own please; that's just selfish, silly, and inappropriate.

So what you said here is absolutely pointless.
And I guess you didn't really pay attention to what I was saying...


What remains to answer is just as vain, and I have passed the stage to care about that.