idea: Vehicles

[SlavaFill]

See it as a brainstorm session to let your ideas flow as well

Imagine you are in mid advanced game, you have to travel really far and you get an opportunity to buy a pre-war Van with enough space for your NPCs. Doing a quest you can acquire some gasoline. For saving a daughter from radscorpions local engineer will agree to cut off the roof from your van and install turret just for few thousand nuka coins. Because of your good speech skill you are able to ask engineer to put extra frontal reinforcement as well. Along the travel route you encounter enemies. Battle goes on in turn based mode. Van was able to run over 2 gecko's. After breaking the rest of the guys jump out of the truck. They are stil able to do one shoot which will damage some other nasty creature. Last NPC sits in the turret..you can choose where to shoot. Next you gather your loot from half rotten bramin.
Just before entering the city you encountered 1 buggy with sharp edges, which can cut easily through your tires and a motor-biker who holds ready to go Molotov cocktail. Your first task is to eliminate the motorbike or else your entire crew will be cooked alive, as well keep distance from the buggy. You give direction in which turret keeps continuous open fire towards motorbiker and drive your van away from buggy, all in turn-based mode. Fire was so oppressive that motor-biker didn't even had a chance to throw anything. Next you select your NPC with mines and command him to throw them one by one out of the Van. Buggy hits the third one.
In the city you can buy bike which can be stored in the van and used when time is right for it. Later you find out that buggy's can be bought as well, but they seem not to impress you. You rather collect money for the truck which can be upgraded all the way (type in Google:"Mexico armored drug truck" for basic inspirations). Yes, game gets really fun because of it's complexity with several vehicles/NPC under your control and the specialties of landscapes like hills and holes. You'll have to use all tricks that you mastered when you encounter slow tank with plasma cannon. It would be really awesome if you could command some of your agile(dexterity) NPC's to jump on a tank, open the door opening and try to assassinate the engineer..from other side getting control of such a tank can dis-balance the power equilibrium for the rest of the game..Nevertheless this event can trigger appearance of an aggressive scouting UFO. You might overpower it, but not it's avenger which will abduct the tank. Seriously post apocalyptic world will most surely contain aliens from space(Mars or wherever). Considering the facts that they have been spotted very often lately on territory of Russian F.

BTW important detail to note: your vehicles can't reach most parts of the city/special area's

[Drool]

Acquiring gasoline would be tricky as it tends to break down. After 80-some years, most of it's going to be pretty useless.

[Tanglebones]

I think that the problem with including vehicles at all is that if they're included, they have to be figured into combat. What happens if an enemy pegs your van with a LAW rocket? What about enemies with vehicles too? It'd be less of a problem on a game with a slightly larger budget, but I'd really rather see really interesting personal combat. I think it'd be neat if vehicles could either be modded in later, or perhaps included as a DLC pack (I know DLC is kind of a tetchy issue, but here's my reasoning: including it as a DLC would justify developer resources to making vehicle combat interesting after the game ships, and including vehicles would be a neat and different way to experience the game on a second playthrough).

[TheEmissary]

I like the idea of vehicles but it should have very clear limits and alternatives. It would be nice if you could have low tech vehicles to compliment the high-tech ones if ever introduced. I would like to use a vehicle as either mobile storage or a beast of burden. Mainly just for transportation and not so much on the combat aspects.

Its really some of the additives that cause gasoline to breakdown or the affect the shelf life, maybe in this fiction they used something different.

[Wanderer]

Vehicles should be available only for transport on your world map (for example - car in Fallout 2).

[Celtic927]

The vehicles int FO Tactics worked well, and the car in FO2 worked well, I liked the Way the jeep in WL provided narrative structure. other than that I don't want vehicles to be available in a way that pushes this towards a borderlands exp. Great for BL Bad for WL

[The Tallest]

I don't think it needs vehicles. I think vehicles would ruin immersion.

[SniperHF]

I don't think it needs vehicles. I think vehicles would ruin immersion.

I don't see why. But then again the whole concept of immersion is generally baffling to me.

[Celtic927]

The idea is how often you forget youre playing a game and become excited beyond the point of sitting at a computer can usual provide. I think Tallest is suggesting that driving around in a tank might be a little too far separated from the atmosphere of an environment that can suck you in. Its easy to become invested in a dark ruins with water dripping and distance monsters growling while your party is tip-toeing huddled together waiting for an attack... A little harder when your cruising through it at high speed with a loud motor roaring and a Mini gun mounted on the rear. Ripping through everything in sight......See the difference

[SniperHF]

The idea is how often you forget youre playing a game and become excited beyond the point of sitting at a computer can usual provide. I think Tallest is suggesting that driving around in a tank might be a little too far separated from the atmosphere of an environment that can suck you in. Its easy to become invested in a dark ruins with water dripping and distance monsters growling while your party is tip-toeing huddled together waiting for an attack... A little harder when your cruising through it at high speed with a loud motor roaring and a Mini gun mounted on the rear. Ripping through everything in sight......See the difference

Not really. I see a preference perhaps. Maybe someone finds that "immersed" feeling while cruising around in a tank. I'm sure a lot of console players would say so anyway.

I don't think any one thing is inherently more immersive than another, which Is why I find the whole concept a canard.

[Mort2]

I am all for some kind of Vehicle (an old army pick up?), mounts would be nice aswell but I'd hate to have to manage those for the whole group, plus it seems that it might cause a balance issue, I'd be going with a herd of those from the start, gathering all the crap I can find.

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

See it as a brainstorm session to let your ideas flow as well

Imagine you are in mid advanced game, you have to travel really far and you get an opportunity to buy a pre-war Van with enough space for your NPCs. Doing a quest you can acquire some gasoline. For saving a daughter from radscorpions local engineer will agree to cut off the roof from your van and install turret just for few thousand nuka coins. Because of your good speech skill you are able to ask engineer to put extra frontal reinforcement as well. Along the travel route you encounter enemies. Battle goes on in turn based mode. Van was able to run over 2 gecko's. After breaking the rest of the guys jump out of the truck. They are stil able to do one shoot which will damage some other nasty creature. Last NPC sits in the turret..you can choose where to shoot. Next you gather your loot from half rotten bramin.
Just before entering the city you encountered 1 buggy with sharp edges, which can cut easily through your tires and a motor-biker who holds ready to go Molotov cocktail. Your first task is to eliminate the motorbike or else your entire crew will be cooked alive, as well keep distance from the buggy. You give direction in which turret keeps continuous open fire towards motorbiker and drive your van away from buggy, all in turn-based mode. Fire was so oppressive that motor-biker didn't even had a chance to throw anything. Next you select your NPC with mines and command him to throw them one by one out of the Van. Buggy hits the third one.
In the city you can buy bike which can be stored in the van and used when time is right for it. Later you find out that buggy's can be bought as well, but they seem not to impress you. You rather collect money for the truck which can be upgraded all the way (type in Google:"Mexico armored drug truck" for basic inspirations). Yes, game gets really fun because of it's complexity with several vehicles/NPC under your control and the specialties of landscapes like hills and holes. You'll have to use all tricks that you mastered when you encounter slow tank with plasma cannon. It would be really awesome if you could command some of your agile(dexterity) NPC's to jump on a tank, open the door opening and try to assassinate the engineer..from other side getting control of such a tank can dis-balance the power equilibrium for the rest of the game..Nevertheless this event can trigger appearance of an aggressive scouting UFO. You might overpower it, but not it's avenger which will abduct the tank. Seriously post apocalyptic world will most surely contain aliens from space(Mars or wherever). Considering the facts that they have been spotted very often lately on territory of Russian F.

BTW important detail to note: your vehicles can't reach most parts of the city/special area's

Vehicles would be great! A tank would be awesome. There needs to be something in the game like the Howitzer cannon, that you can use to blow up parts of a town and raise demolition skills.

It would be extra coool if vehicles and mounts and things liket that (and maybe buildings too) should have [SER], [CRIT], [MOR], [COM] conditions.

[gool]

I want rideable motorbikes/horses in combat! And an attack-move with critical hits ("The bike's wheel reduces the thug's head to a 12' long pink streak in the dirt.")! And critical ride failures ("You are suddenly jolted from the saddle, entangling yourself and your horse in the reigns. The horse startles and madly tries to free itself, trampling you in the process.")!

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

I want rideable motorbikes/horses in combat! And an attack-move with critical hits ("The bike's wheel reduces the thug's head to a 12' long pink streak in the dirt.")! And critical ride failures ("You are suddenly jolted from the saddle, entangling yourself and your horse in the reigns. The horse startles and madly tries to free itself, trampling you in the process.")!

+1 Fail your horseriding roll, get trampled by your own mount!

[SockMan]

I'd be great if not all vehicles allowed you to carry the entire party in it. This will make the player think before using it and not just use it for 99% of them game after getting it.

For example, if your someone in the party is critically wounded on the battlefield you can split the party and rush your wounded to Ranger HQ along with a driver - leaving the rest of your party to fend for themselves at less-than-full strength - and without having the tactical advantage the vehicle provides - until the rest of the party returns (or the driver brings back a replacement). Since the vehicle can't hold your entire party, you can't just run off and return later if you find yourself in a bind.

The vehicles could also have flexible cargo space that's inversely proportional to the number of party members it can fit. Just like in real life, a car with stuff loaded into the back seats can't transport as many people as an empty car. On the other hand, if you're willing to sacrifice cargo space you can stuff a party member or two in the trunk.

[SilverSam]

The issue of the vehicles is really dificult, because cars, motorbikes and those would be really difficult to use, manage and support (Fuel, parts, repariments, tires...), but Horses or even other big wild animals would be ideal to ride or attack with.

I want rideable motorbikes/horses in combat! And an attack-move with critical hits ("The bike's wheel reduces the thug's head to a 12' long pink streak in the dirt.")! And critical ride failures ("You are suddenly jolted from the saddle, entangling yourself and your horse in the reigns. The horse startles and madly tries to free itself, trampling you in the process.")!

This is really good idea, pal. or even get some benefits in battle that come of riding something (longer movement range, special attack moves...). But with this i think the ride (or vehicle) should have armour and HP, so when it's killed or destroyed you scavange from it what you can (from animals you obtain leather and raw meat and from vehicles some fuel, oil, parts, tires and metal parts)

[krellen]

Wasteland had a Jeep, complete with a service station to get it fixed up at. There were no concerns about fuel, only a need for a new engine because you burned out yours. Once the new engine was put in, the Jeep worked just fine (well enough that a bunch of raiders stole it from you.)

Wasteland is not Fallout. It had a far more functional infrastructure than Fallout did.

[Mort2]

In fallout, the cars were more like modern car, all hightec with chips inside and worked on energy cells, so it was understandable that they were so rare. If in Wasteland fuel/tires and "old" machinery is not a concern, as you say, then we should be seeing cars/jeeps/whatever everywhere in travel or combat.

[Celtic927]

I just envision it being too complex for a turned based combat. What is it really adding, and at what cost for the atmosphere?

[jurbanek]

Turn based vehicles were handled quite well in the games Roadwar 2000 and Roadwar Europa, and they were in the original Wasteland

...Taken from: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/26245 ... +2000.html (from where you can download the original game):

"...When you encounter another road gang you may choose between abstract, quick, and tactical combat. Abstract combat is a simple calculation like with foot gangs, and quick combat gives you the opportunity to deploy your men in vehicles and also some general fighting strategy for your gang, to be used in more complex calculations. Tactical combat, however, is a turn-based game presented in a top-down view of the battlefield. After deploying your men in the vehicles, and your vehicles on the field, you can issue commands for each vehicle. To move vehicles, you must set their speed and direction, all the while considering different terrain types, obstacles, and the location of the enemy. When you have finished moving your vehicles, it is time for the attacking phase of the turn. After that, there is another interesting feature. You can reallocate your men among the vehicles if they are in adjacent squares. [Think Mad Max style, leaping from a dune buggy onto the tanker]. Your vehicle crew can also try to capture nearby enemy vehicles, unless your gang has already reached the maximum amount of vehicles. Capturing vehicles may be hard, but if you succeed it will be a big loss for the opposing gang. Probably the most interesting feature in tactical combat would be ramming. During the movement part of the turn, your vehicle can ram into an enemy vehicle, most likely causing damage to both of them. The outcome of ramming depends on the speed, masses, and armor of the vehicles. It is even possible to completely overrun another vehicle, but only if the ratio of both vehicles' attributes is 2:1 (meaning your vehicle must be twice as large and heavy as the other). [Or motorcyle squishing, as I like to think of it as]. Besides the supplies that you gain in any won battle, victory in tactical combat also increases the number of vehicles your gang may have by one. "

Now, doesn't that sound fun?

I'm not suggesting that W2 has a full vehicle combat mode, (the 'kitchen sink' mission creep), only that there are existing paradigms for handling vehicle vs vehicle and vehicle vs individuals that were achievable and fun within the limitations of old-school games in a post-Apocalypse setting, and that these could be a natural, if rare (due to fuel shortage etc) extension of the W2 world. Vehicles also act as mobile bulky kit & ammo stores & plausible map 'fast travel' a la the flaky car boot/car mechanic in Fallout 2. Getting and keeping them running offers mini quest options; and it is easy enough to imagine 'checkpoints' 'gated communities' & such like that prevent you barreling into every settlement you encounter, all guns blazing. Maybe you even choose to park up somewhere safe(ish) and walk in, having scouted the settlement, then used the spare kit in your trunk to tool up apprpriately for wht you anticipate the difficulties that lie ahead. (Can you conceal the gun? Maybe the sawn off, or the Uzi, the folding stock AK... but not the Bozon or Gauss rifles, the Barretts .50 cal etc...) And maybe, once in a while, when you get bakc to your improvised hideout, you find your 'camoflage' skill wasn't up to it - and someone's stolen your ride, and all the loot in it...

As for rarity of working/repairable vehicles, Working or Repairable vehicles should not be more difficult then lets say, a fully functioning suit of atomic powered power armor or a laser rifle. It should be a hell of a lot easier for me to get my Dodge Charger to run on Methanol or Bio Diesel then to get a mech suit functioning. As for alternative fuels, There can be many many alternatives, Biodiesel, Methane, Methanol, Mutant Hamsters on a treadmill, Mr. Slave and his buddies peddling away.

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