Kickstarter Drive Update #6

[infestor]

1) i hope this social/multiplayer suggestion doesn't cause a backer backlash
2) leaving notes? why would this be a good idea? i don't like spoilers plus even if i liked whose note am i gonna trust? this idea doesn't look good at this stage of its suggestion.

[lexicon]

I absolutely agree with everything written here.

My response, which I've posted elsewhere:

"
"Really not into the multiplayer thing. At $2m I want the single player to be enhanced. i really don't care about multiplayer and don't feel dev time and resources should be spent on it.

Others might disagree but this is the first major thing I'm not into with Wasteland 2. If this is an old school single player RPG, a sequel to Wasteland and spiritual successor to FO1 and 2... why are funds being spent on multiplayer... this has me concerned, to be honest. Sending items to each other? That's so easy to break the balance, making the game harder for people who don't want to play online or with others. The balance will either favour people who play online, or offline -.Look at Dark Souls etc. I just don't want this sh*t in a single player RPG, particularly one I'm funding. Am considering dropping my pledge down to the minimum because of this. This has no place in a single player, old school RPG in the vein of FO and Wasteland, no place at all. If they HAVE to have multiplayer, don't force it into the single player experience. Make it a completely seperate mode.

Multiplayer forced into the singleplayer mode in the sequel to Wasteland. Sounds like the sort of thing a publisher would demand of a developer - exactly the sort of thing that I thought kickstarter was supposed to avoid. If Wasteland 2 goes multiplayer, gotta say, I'm probably dropping my pledge (and possibly dropping out altogether). It's not what I want in a single player RPG, and to be honest I'm really disappointed. Just who has been calling for multiplayer in their single player RPGs?"

Bottom line - if this feature goes ahead, I'm reconsidering my pledge and will certainly drop down a tier or two. I can get dumb multiplayer in the latest EA release. Has ANYONE been saying, 'what's missing from Fallout and Wasteland is some stupid social multiplayer'?

[kopi]

Now I totally don't want this game to reach the 2 million threshold.

[Wanderer]

Now I totally don't want this game to reach the 2 million threshold.

There's no reason to be harsh, nothing is set in stone yet.

[undecaf]

The "leaving notes" thing immediately reminded me of HoMM 6 which had the same kind of online feature in the single player campaign. Interactable spheres of sorts (don't remember what they were called) placed around the maps where people posted their thoughts. It looked like a bathroom wall with all the geekspeech obscenity and served no purpose at all.

How was it done in Demons Souls? I haven't played it, so I do not know how it worked there.

[Infinitron]

I have my doubts about this ever being implemented, unless Brian is really obsessed with the idea.

[Blackstang]

Going to jump on the bandwagon here and say I would rather have another town full of criter's to plow through than to be able to share my experience with someone else in game. If I want to that, I can come here and post and debate all I want. Please leave the social aspects out of the game. The in-game statues for the really big donors is about the extent of social I want.

It's a WASTELAND, not a fan club.

The dev's rule absolute and I'll take anything they give us, but add my vote to the NO column.

[mindx2]

How was it done in Demons Souls? I haven't played it, so I do not know how it worked there.

Just considering this game is now being influenced by a console game makes me really nervous!! I have to admit I'm reconsidering my high level pledge now that this is being considered. It's not what i signed up for .

[valcik]

I would like to play my game off-line, not to be bothered by anyone. If that multiplayer nonsense is really necessary, just make some option to turn all the social crap off, please.

[God is Dog backwards]

How was it done in Demons Souls? I haven't played it, so I do not know how it worked there.

Just considering this game is now being influenced by a console game makes me really nervous!! I have to admit I'm reconsidering my high level pledge now that this is being considered. It's not what i signed up for .

You and me both. Dark Souls is actually really cool, but it's not a spiritual Fallout sequel or sequel to Wasteland. I fear Brian really needs to retract this social multiplayer idea, or some of those high level pledges will start to disappear (might be wrong, but response to this aspect of his update seems to have been universally negative).

[The_A_Drain]

The "leaving notes" thing immediately reminded me of HoMM 6 which had the same kind of online feature in the single player campaign. Interactable spheres of sorts (don't remember what they were called) placed around the maps where people posted their thoughts. It looked like a bathroom wall with all the geekspeech obscenity and served no purpose at all.

How was it done in Demons Souls? I haven't played it, so I do not know how it worked there.

In Demon's/Dark Souls you had a stone which could inscribe from a list of words/phrases, most often things like "Try attacking with fire" or "Hidden Area Close", there were limited phrases you could craft yourself from lists of words.

These existed in the world as glowing runes you press x to read, and they were (supposedly) drawn from local players, in addition there was nothing preventing them from being untrue. Often you'd see "Hidden Area" inscribed over a ledge, and would have to fight your curiosity if you didn't believe it.

If somebody approves of the message, they clicked the equivalent of 'like' and the player who left the message got some health back.

In Dark Souls they expanded upon this, items that were left on the ground could spawn as an enemy in another players world, their strength and potential rewards grew depending on how long the item was left lying about and the power level of the item.

There's been a lot of "Dark Souls is a console game, fuck that game automatically" around here, and at risk of backlash I'll say it anyway. Fuck those people, especially the ones who've never even attempted to give it a try. Dark Souls is the perfect transition (finally, it took this damn long) of the MetroidVania style in 3D and in the context of it's world the social aspects made perfect sense. Whether they will make the same sense here remains to be seen but I am not going to reduce or retract my pledge, I've held from going into this that they should make the game they wanted to make and that I was confident whatever they have in mind is going to be free to publisher influence. For me, as much of a Fallout nut as I am (It's my favourite game, ever) the ability for these guys to make the game they want to make comes first. I won't stand in the way of that because the end product is not 100% my vision (even in a community this small, that's never going to happen anyway).

[JanetRGilbert]

Ugh, I hate social features in non-social games. If I wanted to be social, I'd go on Facebook. I play games to immerse myself in the world and get away. The latest Heroes of Might and Magic had social features. You could leave a message to other players. Gee, thanks for breaking my immersion. I've liked every Wasteland 2 feature I've heard about except this one.

Howabout saving the money to give the game a really good testing and bugfixing? Bugs are the thing that plague RPGs done on a budget. And even $2 million is a tight budget. Troika and Obsidian should be object lessons here.

[Arsinis]

I'm against the social thing.

[God is Dog backwards]

I agree Dark Souls/Demons Souls is really cool and the MP features work really well. But they're also integral to the game - you miss out on the game experience if you are offline. I don't see a place for this in Wasteland 2, no one is asking for it, and my pledge is dropping down to minimum if these features stay. Course, others may feel less strongly, but I just feel there isn't a place for this in a sequel to Wasteland/Fallout.

[imhotep]

I am very strongly opposing the social aspects. If InExile is so paramount on this, they can make it later on with the income they get after launch.

[Vaux]

I'm against social things too.

Ok it's pretty cool in demon's souls, but demon's souls are partially based on this and it's a fantasist world, wasteland 2 it's an post-apocalyptic world, that's stupid to find message tell you what you have to do.

[ThePlanner]

My gut response is that I'm not keen on a mechanism where you can leave notes in the game for other players to find. Clearly, we do not know any details at this point, but my heart doesn't beat faster for that feature. With that said, if it can be disabled I would not especially care if it made it into the game. If they are going to be in the game I hope there could be a way to make them appear to be subtle gameplay elements, like the easter eggs and in-jokes in Fallout 1 and 2. That way they wouldn't feel out of place to players who weren't interested in utilizing them.

Those are my initial thoughts.

[Edit]

Brian Fargo's most recent Tweet said the following:

"Read the whole update. Social as in share information with fellow player IF you want to. Demon Souls best analogy."

It's pretty amazing to see the feedback loop in almost real time via the forum/kickstarter comments/Twitter. We're in new territory here and it's very reassuring to see that the lines of communication are wide open.

[flikera]

Hello,

I really hope that your last update 6 is April's joke. I know it's a week early for that - but really that's what it sounds like to me.

If it is not - just hear the forums and the people please.

My opinion: Keep it single player, keep it hardcore, don't include achievments(at least not in the meaning we understand it today, i.e. "You just opened you inventory!").

P.S. Don't waste our money on "optional" thing, while you can really other areas of the game

Best Regards,
Flikera

[idontcare]

I am very sorry, but this seems all too familiar.

It seems that lately it's been a trend to promise something, then after gathering enough funds, changing it up. I won't mention names, but I'm sure most of you can think of one or two examples of companies that did this in the gaming industry.

I have retracted my pledge. Just the fact that they would consider this shows me that InXile and mr. Fargo are not as passionate about creating a truly old-school RPG as I am about playing one.

See you all around, and good luck.

[imhotep]

To be honest, to me, this social feature just smells like something InExile wants for the tablet-market to increase sales after launch... Not to make a better old-school single player RPG-game.