Small Locations

[Hiver]

Simple, what are the locations you/we want to see in the game.
This is not about general environment of the whole area of the game but smaller locations as the thread name implies.

For starters, i have only a couple ideas and ill leave the rest to all of the members, naturally.
be sure to point out how the environment of the location would affect gameplay too because its not just about the looks of the thing.

First, since reading about the main story of the original and seeing some youtube videos i thought that if it wasnt a part of that first game (watching lets play now so i dont know) The Citadel Starbase would be a very, very cool location to visit.

Of course i dont know if that would be possible but as an idea it seems very interesting to me although i realize how ambitious it is. It seems like it had some mysterious events playing out there that started the war. Obviously, a lot of stuff is waiting to be dug up there.
I dont know if that was revealed in the first game.
I guess someone will correct me if players went there or know more about it in the first game.

The second location i would like to play through is something very similar to "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind" environment of toxic fungal jungle, full of weird creatures and different fungal / mushroom ecosystems.
It can bring a sort of fresh air of a uniquely alien landscape and creatures full of its own laws and rules.
Of course i wish it isnt a direct copy of that movie design but rather an original take on the subject, which is common in many good science fiction (i mean of the serious kind) literature.

It doesnt need to be a direct reference to the manga or the movie made on it at all but i wouldnt mind a few easter eggs either. I also recommend seeing this movie because it is rather good as are the rest of Miyazaki animated movies.
(i mean if there is anyone out there that hasnt)

So, put forth your suggestions, big and small, weird and "normal", usual and unusual. The design team is watching this.


-EDIT-

I just saw this on Brian Fargo twiter :

Brian Fargo ‏ @BrianFargo
I've always wondered if people really wanted the Mars storyline to come into play. It's funny but way outside the genre.

Yes please! i dont see why not.
Be sure not to overblow it and do it good and it should be great. Especially if you can simulate the difference in gravity at least to some degree.
...which by the way... would be great addition to "my" idea about Citadel Starbase visit.

Give me Valles Marineris location, Mount Olympos, North pole! There are amazingly beautiful and interesting places on Mars (Martian Red here:P).

Yess!

[Waymer]

Ehhh... the Mars thing seems just too out of this world (Bad puns FTW) for this game. Brian even said it was way out of the genre. But the starbase thing seems interesting.

NYC would be cool, but from so many buildings being knocked down (surely it was hit directly in the war!) it would be near impossible to navigate.

[Hiver]

To tell you the truth i dont see why it is "out of the genre" myself.
Wasteland is science fiction after all.

It could be if its designed in that way, which it doesnt need to be. It can be as post apocalyptic as the rest of the game.
Just for example, say we go over and visit some installations/bases, one or more sides in world war III made there before the end. This can include surface locations and underground (lava tubes baby) or under the ice (polar) bases.
Then we get to see how things developed there when crews were left on their own and no way to return home.

Maybe it all went into violence, maybe not.
It can be connected with why the Citadel Starbase suddenly disappeared with all the satellites but thats not absolutely necessary.

I also wonder if it would be possible that we dont physically travel there but "visit" through proxy by connecting to some robots there. Could be fun and certainly very unique even if its a relatively short visit. (although time delay should be then somehow sidestepped) .... or not if your guys actually uploaded their minds that were sent to Mars
-anyway, there are a number of ways you can deal with it-

As for my fungal jungle/forest idea i have to admit a big part of inspiration for it comes from Ian McDonald book "Chaga", called "Evolution's Shore" in US.

Although the "weird" forest there is of another type of origin the stuff can be used in number of different ways to explore different facets of humanity and existence. And it can be quite fun and interesting to boot.

observe:

-quoted from wiki:

The major axis of Chaga concerns the alien advance on Nairobi from an impact-site on Mount Kilimanjaro. The protagonist is Ulster journalist Gaby McAslin, whose outsider's eye both caresses African landscape and sees very clearly what the 'UN quarantine zone' is doing to Kenya and Kenyans.

The moral force of McDonald's plot derives from his use of the invading alien as an immensely powerful but also very slippery metaphor:

"The image of the unstoppable wave of transformation was nicked from [1982 Star Trek movie] The Wrath of Khan: it's the Genesis device, slowed down, and once I had that, it became a rich source of metaphors: for colonialism, new technology, globalisation, change, death. If the Chaga is colonialism, it's a unique kind that allows the people of the poor South to use and transform it to meet their needs and empower themselves: it's a symbiosis."

The economic and moral issues are focused and driven home through the determination of the UN and the global pharmacological industry to conceal the fact that exposure to the alien Chaga cures AIDS, and the knife is turned by a fictional but verisimilar virology.

McDonald's plotting is also, in Chaga, deeply engaged with Conrad's Heart of Darkness, and just as in Conrad the real horror is not only in the Congolese interior, but also in the looming bulk of late Victorian London, so McDonald's 'heart of darkness' is not the invading alien but the responses to it of the UN and of developed nations.

[Lirpakkaa]

I wouldn't really want the plot to be too much about how the war started or such, it's better left intentionally ambiguous.

Just focus on a smaller scale, of currently relevant issues. And yeah that means no spaceships.

[Zeful]

I'd like to see midwest locales, I just don't like the "dusty desert" ubiquitous setting. It's just aping mad max, which is something everyone's done.

[Rebby]

Wasteland 2 should definitely include a dusty desert, destroyed cities, forests, old overgrown suburbs, and miles and miles of rubble, twisted steel, and collapsed buildings. There should be lots of roads that seemingly go nowhere, as roads in a post apocalyptic setting will undeniably last much longer than the great majority of unmaintained buildings.

[Hiver]

I wouldn't really want the plot to be too much about how the war started or such, it's better left intentionally ambiguous.

Just focus on a smaller scale, of currently relevant issues. And yeah that means no spaceships.

Ah, thank you for that exciting contribution. Im so glad you didnt just post your weird distorted personal view on the few things that were mentioned so far, but actually explained... ... oh wait...

Space ships? How about aliens kidnapping you? How about being teleported there? Whats wrong with space ships anyway?
What if its a side quest? Do you object to those too?

I think youve been reading...er...i mean - watching a lot of bad sci fi.

I'd like to see midwest locales, I just don't like the "dusty desert" ubiquitous setting. It's just aping mad max, which is something everyone's done.

Thats why i brought this thread about. Some different smaller locations would break the monotony.
Instead of being so generic with "midwest locales" why dont you say what some of those could be? Especially if you know those lands well or even live there.

/

To be more precise about my idea of fungal jungle : I was thinking of players being able to go only through small part of it. Something like its edge, nothing more, instead of it being a big part or in the middle of the whole big area.

Wasteland 2 should definitely include a dusty desert, destroyed cities, forests, old overgrown suburbs, and miles and miles of rubble, twisted steel, and collapsed buildings. There should be lots of roads that seemingly go nowhere, as roads in a post apocalyptic setting will undeniably last much longer than the great majority of unmaintained buildings.

Definitely, i agree. However, i hope thats not all it will include.

How about underground locations? How about, except remnants of the old world, seeing some examples of weird new world trying to arise? Sometimes even incorporating parts of the old one.

[Orko]

personaly i could see the visit to the space station.
Also a trip to mars. Populated mars could be explayned with the crew of the space station cut off from earth. And helpless watching how the nukes go off.
What to do now? use the space shuttle to fly to Mars (or maybe the moon?) and start settling there as the last hope for mankid. Since earth, from the view of the space station inhabitans, will be dewvestated and inhabbitable for centurys.
So they startet to settle mars.

Or the Russians had a base on the moon.

Only problem is how to get to space at all?
Maybe the settlers from mars come to check on the conditions on earth. Or we get a communication to the space station operational and they send a craft to inspect.

Buut why didn't they notice all those radio chatter from Ranger central? Lots of plot holes but well who cares i want my crazy scifi stuff .


Also a giant deep underground cavern with jungle might be interresting setting to visit.

[Mort2]

I would love to see at least a one big city location, cities provide a wealth of amazing locations. From simple gang infested ruins to places where order has reclaimed its hold, I would want to see barricaded streets with checkpoint, caravan stops and people who cant get in packed outside in self made crap. With various locations you can explore like train station, malls, docks warehouses...

Out side I would like to see roadblocks with bullies demanding tribute for safe passage, various defensible location and taken like Old Army bases or prisons. Various weird and out of place locations and obviously the little settlements with people just trying to survive, with local men with some old gun to greet me.

[Drool]

To tell you the truth i dont see why it is "out of the genre" myself.
Wasteland is science fiction after all.

There are many flavors of Science Fiction, just look at the canyon-like divide between Star Wars and Star Trek diehards. The Mars storyline was out of place for Wasteland because Wasteland was grounded in 80's post-apocalypse sci-fi. That's very, very grounded on Earth and rarely, if ever, involves other planets or civilizations. You don't have aliens, you have mutants.

[Hiver]

If you think star wars is sci fi... then i have some bad news for you. Its fantasy in space setting.
And Star Trek isnt far behind but it at least deals or tries to incorporate some bigger human issues - although in a quite naive ways.
No thanks, i dont need any kind of "explanations" like that.

I certainly dont want to see inhabited Mars or aliens in the usual sense of the word.
As i said above there can be some remnants of human explorers in a few (or just one) bases on Mars, good enough for a "short visit".

And no, post apocalyptic doesnt have to mean "Earth only" - if you do it sensibly and include the consequences of postapocalypse on survivors on Mars. Its a harsh place, impossible to teraform globally in any short time.
And being left without support from Earth will make matters worse.

The pulpy type of sci-fi wasteland utilizes can make things relatively easier, but not for much.
And thats not hard to balance.

I would love to see at least a one big city location, cities provide a wealth of amazing locations. From simple gang infested ruins to places where order has reclaimed its hold, I would want to see barricaded streets with checkpoint, caravan stops and people who cant get in packed outside in self made crap. With various locations you can explore like train station, malls, docks warehouses...

Out side I would like to see roadblocks with bullies demanding tribute for safe passage, various defensible location and taken like Old Army bases or prisons. Various weird and out of place locations and obviously the little settlements with people just trying to survive, with local men with some old gun to greet me.

Definitely. Some well done post-apoc ruins are always welcome and one of the staples of such sci-fi settings.
I would only wish it gives us a bit verticality too instead all those skyscrapers and other similar types of buildings being a nice background.

[Mort2]

If we will look at FO for reference. I loved the urban crumbling outskirts locations, the gratify gave them character and they were more or less the right size to allow me exploration and feel real. What I hated in them is the lack of verity in the environments and how the people all looked the same, doing nothing(engine limitation I assume). I want to see filthy squatters, going around either warming their hands by the fire, roasting rats on stick that they just caught etc, because to me people(or the lack of them) and what they do are a big part of the locations feeling.

Anyway, I goggled a few pictures that of the above location, that might inspire someone:
http://i43.tinypic.com/ou6t1k.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/33tgtxe.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/5cm7n8.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/1440iti.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/10dfqdi.jpg

[Hiver]

Nice examples.

What i would really want is the vertical to be added to such or similar locations, enabling the player to traverse and use high architecture or ruins of it, and find diverse challenges associated with them. Challenges that will demand different skills to come to front, and related equipment.
(climbing gear, ropes, grapples... etc)

Will do wonders for exploring pillar of gameplay.

It can be limited in different ways, im not asking for everything to be available and open. But it should be a part of it.



I would also like to see bridges used as William Gibson used it in his Bridge trilogy, as shantytowns and shelters of sorts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_trilogy

[Woolfe]

City's would be interesting, they strike me as mostly dead places, with maybe a small group of survivors using gardens and what not to grow crops etc. With all the water tanks etc that a lot of buildings have I could imagine them using that to create little isolated pockets of survival.

And of course then there would be those who prey on them. Mutants, Cannibals, slavers, generally not nice people. Plus the old moral issues of people fighting to keep the little they have and not sharing, whilst others are trying to just survive etc.

Vertical combat could be cool too.... that would make an interesting setting actually. Block warfare where several groups have taken over a city and are fighting each other for control of the resources and stuff left.

[Thrin]

I guess it all depends where the game begins.

I would like to see something like Salt Lake City. There's a lot of natural biodiversity around there that would allow players to experience a variety of environments - even subterranean locations. Plus it's 'close' to where the original Ranger station was supposed to be located.

Another option would be Switzerland. Switzerland remained neutral in the war and is surrounded by mountains. This could provide for an interesting location and 'strong civilization' point to explore outwards from.

Back in the USA, maybe something in the North West. Perhaps Portland Oregon. Or maybe something straight up west coast like Crescent City just to start out along the Pacific Ocean.

But, chances are the game will take place in Nevada or Arizona. If so, maybe Tucson or Phoenix.

I would love to see something like irradiated swamps, salt marshes, or other forms of wastelands that aren't just desert. The bright side about California is that it would likely have been nuked to the ground multiple times over. As such, Cali might be fun to explore.

[Harpo]

I would really like for the locations to be different from WL1. Even though this is a sequel, it would make everyone compare to much with the previous game, spot differences and discuss what has happened since the first game. But more importantly - I think it would restrict the game designers a lot. I would prefer if those guys are not restricted by both the story and the location. With a new location comes more design freedom, especially to incorporate some really good fan ideas on this forum that seems to fit a worthy Wasteland game.

[Harpo]

But, chances are the game will take place in Nevada or Arizona. If so, maybe Tucson or Phoenix.

I think it's starting to get a *little* worn out that so many post-apocalyptic games that want to incorporate the whole "wasteland desert feel", feel a need to set the location to an area that was already a desert previous to the apocalypse. Now, everyone can imagine how a desert area would look like after a great nuclear war, right? Kinda like it did before (inhabitants aside). The only real difference is in the infrastructure that was present before the war.

It would be much more interesting to see an area that was flourishing before the apocalypse but has now been turned into a desert wasteland (with maybe a few exceptions). This would trigger the imagination of the player more, imagining how it looked like before and getting a feel of the level of damage the world suffered during the war. I think this could be a powerful weapon for the game designers in order to get a feel of the scale across to the player.

EDIT: This would of course require a new location since the area in WL1 was said to be pretty unscaled, if I remember the story correctly.

[Drool]

I think it's starting to get a *little* worn out that so many post-apocalyptic games that want to incorporate the whole "wasteland desert feel"

Yeah, who would expect a game called Wasteland to take place in a wasteland? (sorry, couldn't resist)

More seriously, isn't this all rather moot? I could have sworn Fargo has said that it'll have the same setting as the original.

[krellen]

More seriously, isn't this all rather moot? I could have sworn Fargo has said that it'll have the same setting as the original.

I believe the Words of God we have on this are that PCs will be Rangers and it will be set in the US Southwest.

[Harpo]

I think it's starting to get a *little* worn out that so many post-apocalyptic games that want to incorporate the whole "wasteland desert feel"

Yeah, who would expect a game called Wasteland to take place in a wasteland? (sorry, couldn't resist)

Hehe. You got me there! No, but seriously. The second part of the sentence was the important part:

...feel a need to set the location to an area that was already a desert previous to the apocalypse.

So, I do want wasteland. I just don't want it to all like "This place is really desolate. A real wasteland. What was it before the war? - Well, before the war it was... really desolate.... a real... wasteland. - So, nothing new then?"