Expanded skills list

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

I've combined the Wasteland skills list with the Merceneries, Spies, and Private Eyes skills list. I've placed the MSPE skills where they appear in the first edition of the game, and left the Wasteland skills where they were, so there is some minor incongruety between the lists.

MSPE specifies a long list of specific skills by IQ, and adds to those general areas of skills for recreation and occupation. I've suggested some ideas for recreational and occupational skills. MSPE also has several skills that fall outside the system, such as Acting, Psychic Skills and Martial Arts. It has some specific guidelines for Martial Arts. I've left out all of the details.

At the end of the list I've provided some suggestions for Social Skills that could possibly be added to the system. I would like Wasteland 2 to conder these social skills or something like them. In my imagined Wasteland 2 wish system, social skills would build morale, which would boost combat performance and other kinds of performance. But that is of course up to the developers to decide.

These are the skills:

3 INT
Archery, Brawling, Climb, Clip Pistol, Knife Fighting, Pugilism, Rifle, Swim, Garrote, Horsemanship

Recreational Skills: Suggestions: Baseball, Basketball, Laser Tag, Paintball, Card Games, Wasteland, Knife Tricks, Go, Chess

6 INT
Knife Throwing, Perception, Fencing, Shotgun, Revolver, Shuriken, Street Fighting, Bullwhip, Hang Gliding, Motorcycle, Tracking

9 INT
Assault Rifle, Anti-Tank Weapononry, Machine Pistol & SMG, Chic, Fast Driving, Mountaineering, Sky Diving

10 INT
Acrobat, Gamble, Picklock, Ambush and Silent Movement, Computer, Diplomacy, Elocution, Underwater, Underwater Combat, Quick Draw, Seduction, Confidence, Leadership

Environmental Survival: swamp, forest, arctic, desert, jungle, urban, suburban

11 INT
Combat Shooting, Research, Tactical

12 INT
Sleight of Hand, Disguise, Forensics, Observation, Photography, Secret Identity

13 INT
Demolition, Forgery, Languages & Literacy
14 INT
Alarm Disarm, Bureaucracy, Gunsmithing, Lawyer, M.D., Coroner

15 INT
Bomb Disarm, Medic, Safecrack

16 INT
Cryptology, Poison

17 INT
Metallurgy

19 INT
Pilot, Mariner

20 INT
Electronics, Toaster Repair

21 INT
Doctor, Psychiatrist

22
Clone Tech

23
Energy Weapons

24
Cyborg Tech

Education
IQ 10 - Bachelor's Degree, IQ 12 - Master's Degree, IQ 13 - Doctorate

Others -
Open skills: Acting/Mimic

Martial Arts, Titles

Occupational Skills
Suggestions: Ballet, Underwater Basketweaving, Critter diplomacy, Spy, Detective, Juggling, Drawing, Theater, Violins, Carpenty, Cooking, Mechanic, Ice sculpture, Glass Blowing, Puppeteer, Motor Vehicle, Dentist, Psychologist, Philosopher, Scientologist, Historian, Linguist, Teacher, Librarian

Psychic Skills:
Psychometry, Telekinesis, Clairvoyance, Precognition, Telepathy, Empathy

As a supplemement to this system, I've developed a system of morale for the party that would develop party banter and other interaction over time, using their social skills. The idea is that we (the players) get a heads-up display type of menu like combat and select our teammates to cooperate working, training, talking, or playing games. This could work well with the occupational and recreational skills suggested by the MSPE rules book.

Here are some ideas for social skills:

Social Skills
Suggestions: Bravery, Familiarity, Camaraderie, Sensitivity, Faith, Slavery, Showboat, Racist, Patience, Marriage, Fidelity, Voyeurism, Drinking, Cannabinoids, Tobacco, Hard Drugs, Conscience, Vegeterian, Ambidextrous, Patience

The morale system these social skills belong to automatically favors more morale by design, because improving your morale gives you better skills for improving morale. Socializing raises morale, which increases social skills effectiveness and raises levels faster. Specific social skills compound morale gain by contributing morale from individual and shared skill gains. (Some skills on one character helps raise skills on another character who cooperates, combining their efforts.)

Morale works like this: You lose 2 morale for every 1 HP. Your characters will quit fighting before they reach 0 morale. At the beginning, with weak HP a character will quickly lose morale points. Resting, working, playing, or training practices your character's social skills. They can cooperate on tasks or do their own thing. Raising morale-dependent skills also raises morale, so it's a feedback loop. Low morale will fail a morale check, which means you should rest first before the other options. Resting heals 3 morale for every 1 HP which gives you 1.5 times as many morale back that you spent. Your characters chill out camping or doing something else constructive to raise morale above that amount. Morale gives you bonuses in combat. Social skills give you speciic abilities in combat and elsewhere. Morale has multipliers - at 2xHP or 3xHP, etc, there are increasing returns from high morale.

[Gabriel77Dan]

So in total:

01 Climb
02 Clip Pistol
03 Knife Fighting
04 Pugilism
05 Rifle
06 Swim
07 Bravery
08 Familiarity
09 Baseball
10 Basketball
11 Knife Throwing
12 Perception
13 Martial Arts
14 Camaraderie
15 Assault Rifle
16 AT Weapon
17 SMG
18 Sword Fighting
19 Dual Weilding
20 Acrobat
21 Gamble
22 Picklock
23 Silent Movement
24 Critter diplomacy
25 Combat Shooting
26 Confidence
27 Conscience
28 Sleight of Hand
29 Juggling
30 Demolition
31 Forgery
32 Motor vehicle
33 Alarm Disarm
34 Bureaucracy
35 Leadership
36 Bomb Disarm
37 Medic
38 Safecrack
39 Cryptology
40 Metallurgy
41 Wasteland
42 Helicopter Pilot
43 Airplane pilot
44 Electronics
45 Toaster Repair
46 Hypnotism
47 Doctor
48 Psychology
49 Philosophy
50 History
51 Languages
52 Scientology
53 Clone Tech
54 Energy Weapons
55 Cyborg Tech

Huge list.

My list would be:

Close combat skills
01 Blunt Weapons - Namechange for Brawling
02 Knife-Fighting
03 Pugilism

Ranged combat skills
04 Clip Pistol
05 Hunting Rifles
06 Military Rifles
07 Automatic Rifles
08 Sub-Machine Guns
09 Throwing Weapons
10 Heavy Weapons - Namechange for AT Weapons

Placed weapon skills
11 Demolitions - Used for setting bombs, disarming bombs and finding and avoiding mines.

Social skills
12 Intimidation - Used for intimidating lesser enemies to sod off and for forcing NPC's into doing what you want.
13 Barter - Used for selling items, you can also get better quest rewards and haggle down prices with NPC's for quests.
14 Persuasion - Used for persuading NPC's through logic and reason, is also used for hiring NPC's.
15 Deception - Used for lying when confronted, disguising yourself in enemy faction clothing and for smuggling in concealed weapons and stuff where guards pad you down.
16 Politics - Used for talking sense with major NPC's and finding the most optimal solution for them.

Support skills
17 Lockpicking - N/A
18 Stealing - Used for pickpocketing NPC's and stealing items in plain sight.
19 Hacking - Used for bypassing locked doors, traps, sensors, alarms et cetera through computers.
20 Electronics - Used for repairing electronical things, can also be used to reroute powers, cut powers or drain electricy for batteries.
21 Mechanics - Used for repairing and understanding mechanial structures.
22 Investigating - A namechange for Perception, Cryptology is merged with this skill.
23 Gambling - Used for winning in poker games, roulette and black jack.
24 Forgery - Used for forging notes, ID's, logo's et cetera and to find out if something has been forged.
25 Security - Name change for Alarm Disarm, this now includes shutting off camera's and laser sensors.
26 Safecracking - N/A
27 Metallurgy - Decides how well you can see, mine and sell ore in particular. When your skill is raised try to go back to a previous mine to find ore veins you couldn't see before.
28 Traps - Decides how well you can spot traps, avoid traps, disarm traps and set traps.
29 Medicine - Determines how well you can treat minor wounds, poisons and diseases. You can not spam this skill like you could Medic. It will tax itself out after 1skilllevel:1UsageEach24Hours. (So a 5 skill level means you can try to treat someone 5 times before it taxes itself out for 24 hours, any character who is still poisoned has to receive medical attention from another PC or a NPC doctor.)
30 Doctor - Determines how well you can treat broken limbs, punctured lungs, internal bleedings and gaping wounds, you can even saw back detached limbs. (Detached limbs is for NPC moments)
31 Taming - Determines how well you can tame mammals. (+2 party slots for animals)

Movement skills
32 Swimming - N/A
33 Climb - N/A
34 Sneak - Name change from Silent Move.
35 Dodging - Used for training the chance to dodge enemy attacks. (It's increased by either dice-rolls where your character dodge or by using Evade)
36 Athlethics - Decides how well and fast you can outrun an enemy.
37 Helicopter Pilot - Decides if you can fly a helicopter but also how well you can fly it. (If it uses fuel, which it should, then improving this skill means you know how to fly it faster and more fuel efficiant.)
38 Driving - Decides how well you can drive a land-based vehicle.
39 Outdoorsman - Determines how well you can spot an enemy encounter in the world map before they spot you and dicerolls if you want to encounter them or go away.

Crafting skills
40 Armorer - Determines how well you can craft, repair and reinforce/modify armors.
41 Chemistry - Determines if you can craft drugs to sell or use. The higher the skill the better the effect on crafted items.
42 Herbalism - Like Chemistry, but it's tribal remedies are weaker though more easy to craft as their ingredients is a lot more common.
43 Cyborg Tech - Determines how well you can modify party members body parts, if you can revive a recently deceased animal into a cyborg version and you get a higher critical hit chance against cyborg enemies (you know where to shoot to make it hurt).


I don't think every former skill has to return.
I'm still not sure about Forgery for example, I can think of ways to make Cyborg Tech work, or Helicopter Piloting but Forgery is still something I'm a bit iffy on.

[undecaf]

Let's see who gets the list go up to 100.
GO.

I all seriousness, though... As fun as it might be to have a charactersheet you need to scroll on a high resolution PC monitor, let's be reasonable here. Btw, I didn't see Toaster Repair in either of your lists.

[Gabriel77Dan]

1. Let's see who gets the list go up to 100.
GO.

2. Btw, I didn't see Toaster Repair in either of your lists.

1. I doubt an RPG could work with 100 skills, would be horrible.

2. I know you're not in favor of large skill lists but if you think about these skills long enough then you'll find ways to make them work, Toaster Repair is just a joke-skill IMO. Not worthy of being put on a list.

But let's see here, more skills despite their limited usage:

Drawing - The ability to replicate things on paper. Drawing maps for others, drawing faces, drawing buildings, drawing objects, drawing a creature you might have encountered out in the wastes for a biologist.
Caravaneering - The ability to successfully lead a caravan safe and sound to it's destination.
Raiding Tactics - Determines how well you can set up a sneak attack on unsuspecting wastelanders and caravans and how organized your party are when raiding something from different angles.
Locamative Expertise - Determines how well you can operate a train.

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

1. Let's see who gets the list go up to 100.
GO.

2. Btw, I didn't see Toaster Repair in either of your lists.

1. I doubt an RPG could work with 100 skills, would be horrible.

In principle, using Wasteland's model, a user could input any word for a skill and then associate an activity with it and then do that activity to gain levels. You can have 100 skills in real life, if it can be done in a game, why not. learn new skills, teach yourself skills, if you could do things in the game that changed something that would be cool. Maybe if you don't use skills they wear out.

2. I know you're not in favor of large skill lists but if you think about these skills long enough then you'll find ways to make them work, Toaster Repair is just a joke-skill IMO. Not worthy of being put on a list.

It is on my list.

The joke works, it's still funny. You did something with it in the game and it rewarded you for hoarding broken toasters. So hoarding broken toasters isn't just a waste of time? That's satisfying. Ex post facto it doesn't seem like so much fun, but the fun was the fact that it was a mystery. With 100 skills you can plug in as many situations like that as you can write words for objects and skills and attributes. That's story stuff. That's skills gained and xp. It's a model for a free and open world of options. The principle works in a 817k program.

Example, with the Wasteland ruleset you can add a skill Wasteland. It's just a word. There's basketball and baseball, why not Wasteland? It requires 17 INT so it's not patronizing. It's up there with metallurgy. You go out camping and order your characters to (P)lay Wasteland. They have a conversation. You do it five times and you gain a level. The characters always say something different. You gain five levels and you gain XP and you raise attributes. It boosts morale, because you are socializing. See, the characters in Wasteland 2 do it the PnP way and each play a different character.

But let's see here, more skills despite their limited usage:

Drawing - The ability to replicate things on paper. Drawing maps for others, drawing faces, drawing buildings, drawing objects, drawing a creature you might have encountered out in the wastes for a biologist.
Caravaneering - The ability to successfully lead a caravan safe and sound to it's destination.
Raiding Tactics - Determines how well you can set up a sneak attack on unsuspecting wastelanders and caravans and how organized your party are when raiding something from different angles.
Locamative Expertise - Determines how well you can operate a train.

Good list!

[Azriel]

Seduction
Hacking
sneak
pickpocket
stealth kills
martial artist

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

[size=50]So in total:
I don't think every former skill has to return.
I'm still not sure about Forgery for example, I can think of ways to make Cyborg Tech work, or Helicopter Piloting but Forgery is still something I'm a bit iffy on.

I see you're going with the makes-more-sense model. IMO, part of what makes Wasteland unique is its skill system. anything can be a skill. You replace Bureaucracy with another word, Authority, and put a skill check for it somewhere that causes you to gain xp and make an observation. Plot, character, battle, something ensues. Toaster repair is a perfect example. It's random; it makes you wonder wtf? If you were keeping useless junk in your inventory now you get rewarded for that. The checks can check your skills and your items and your abilities, anything is fair game. That's in a 817k program, and doubling the skills might multiply the game 100 fold, but that's only 100 megabytes.

[Vryheid]

No explanation or rationale as to why this is a good idea + an attempt to worsen the already convoluted and confusing skill system in the original Wasteland = can't take any of this suggestion seriously.

Here's my alternative, which involves removing all the useless skills from the game, combining the overlapping ones, and renaming them so new players have some intuitive idea as to what the hell they're supposed to do:

Weapon skills:
-Melee Weapons
-Small Guns
-Rifles
-Heavy Weapons
-Energy Weapons
-Demolition

Support skills:
-Medic
-Stealth
-Perception
-Traps
-Steal
-Crafting

Environmental skills:
-Electronics
-Lockpick
-Athletics
-Survival
-Gathering
-Vehicle Operations

I suggest making several activities as Gambling and Speech entirely dependent on stats rather than individual skills when it would make intuitive sense to do so. For example, the idea that you can somehow improve your "skill" at a game like Roulette or Craps is ridiculous- it should be entirely dependent on Luck, nothing else. Likewise, unless we want Charisma to be another dump stat like it was in Fallout 1 and 2, we should have it and Intelligence used to fill most persuasion checks.

The end result of the model I suggest is that players don't have to end up restarting the game half a dozen times just to get a usable character, can easily create a balanced team where each Ranger focuses on 3 or 4 skills they really need, and don't end up stuck because their lack of some obscure one-time-use ability like Toaster Repair prevents them from completing the game. In other words, a system that rewards players for common sense rather than punishing them for a lack of insanity.

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

No explanation or rationale as to why this is a good idea + an attempt to worsen the already convoluted and confusing skill system in the original Wasteland = can't take any of this suggestion seriously.

Here's my alternative, which involves removing all the useless skills from the game, combining the overlapping ones, and renaming them so new players have some intuitive idea as to what the hell they're supposed to do:

Weapon skills:
-Melee Weapons
-Small Guns
-Rifles
-Heavy Weapons
-Energy Weapons
-Demolition

Support skills:
-Medic
-Stealth
-Perception
-Traps
-Steal
-Crafting

Environmental skills:
-Electronics
-Lockpick
-Athletics
-Survival
-Gathering
-Vehicle Operations

I suggest making several activities as Gambling and Speech entirely dependent on stats rather than individual skills when it would make intuitive sense to do so. For example, the idea that you can somehow improve your "skill" at a game like Roulette or Craps is ridiculous- it should be entirely dependent on Luck, nothing else. Likewise, unless we want Charisma to be another dump stat like it was in Fallout 1 and 2, we should have it and Intelligence used to fill most persuasion checks.

The end result of the model I suggest is that players don't have to end up restarting the game half a dozen times just to get a usable character, can easily create a balanced team where each Ranger focuses on 3 or 4 skills they really need, and don't end up stuck because their lack of some obscure one-time-use ability like Toaster Repair prevents them from completing the game. In other words, a system that rewards players for common sense rather than punishing them for a lack of insanity.

You sir do not appreciate the uniqueness of the "confusing skill system in the original Wasteland." The skill system is the beauty of Wasteland. It's a wide open system. A skill can be named anything, its significance in the story was where and when the game checked for that skill. You could rename Confidence Bribary for instance, give it a place in the story, in an encounter or at the right location your character can hire a corrupt police officer to join your team.

Any quality of your character can be used for a check. Your presence on the tile, an item in your inventory, a character in your group, one of your attributes, skills, or money, or toaster. You could get money and power packs out of a toaster. That was in a 817KB game. If doubling the number of skills and their applications multiplied that by a hundred then the game engine would only be 100 MB. I'm expecting the game to be around the 1 GB size so that leaves 900 MB for assets and interface.

[Mort2]

AND I like a nail clipping skill... I think that most people do not appreciate the "confusing skill system in the original Wasteland". Not because it is confusing or unique, but because it is pointless and add nothing of vale to gameplay.

and before you go on some games today rumble, I'd just say that I am not a stranger to games with complex systems, I still play at Dwarf fortress, but unlike here in DF those skills are useful. So unless you want to make some kind of sim game, I think that FO system is more or less is the basis of what we should work with.

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

I'd like a nail clippin skill... I think that most people do not appreciate the "confusing skill system in the original Wasteland". Not because it is confusing or unique, but because it is pointless and add nothing of vale to gameplay.

and before you go on some games today rumble, I'd just say that I am not a stranger to games with complex systems, I still play at Dwarf fortress, but unlike here in DF those skills are useful. So unless you want to make some kind of sim game, I think that FO system is more or less is the basis of what we should work with.

Then we will have to respecfully disagree, sir.

Nail clipping? Work it into the story. If you can create a plot trigger or a dialogue or a combat description for that, go for it.

We should probably cut it short at about 100 skills. The original Wasteland was limited to 30 of everything, and you could do all this neat stuff. The neat stuff was there because the writers fit it into their game world. There is room for expansion and increased storytelling and permutatons of events. Skills and attributes are just words that relate to a skill check on a tile somewhere in the game and that is how the story happens. So to me, the skill system represents the grammar with which the game is speaking to us.

These are the new skills I have added so far, under the correct IQ, with their current descriptions, The old skills can have new applications too, but I have't worked on that yet.

3 INT
Bravery - work/hunting skill, Morale bonus, extra xp (for the level) for low IQ ('are you brave or stupid?')
Familiarity - talk skill, bonus to party size and NPC agreeability, plot triggers
Baseball - team game, play skill, builds morale
Basketball - team game, play skill, builds morale
Cannibal - unarmed melee skill, extra damage, health bonus, gorier combat descriptions
--------------------------
6 INT
Martial Arts - melee HTH skill
Camaraderie - work/play skill, modifies shared skills in combat (2+ chars. use same skill = double damage?)
Ballet- play skill, useful on stage, in conversation & plot
--------------------------
9
Sword Fighting - melee weapons skill
Dual Weilding - weild two weapons
Ambidextrous - exploration skill, like dual weilding but non combat, raises luck rolls
--------------------------
10
Critter diplomacy - allows you to hire critters, including horses and pack animals
--------------------------
11
Conscience - characters try to spare their enemies from death
--------------------------
12
Juggling - play skill, useful on stage, builds morale when high, hurts morale when low ('don't bug us right now')
Carpentry- work skill, builds morale, plot triggers
Cooking - work skill, builds morale, plot triggers, health bonuses
Drawing - work/play skill, builds morale, artistry develops with skills level
--------------------------
13
Motor vehicle - for cars, jeeps, busses
Yoyeurism - for the 13 year olds to giggle, conversation effects, turns people away from your team
Married- play/talk skill, works like camaraderie, stacks with camaraderie, bonus to morale
--------------------------
14
Leadership - bonuses and modifiers in combat, conversation effects, attract followers
Seduction- talk/play skill, useful in story, conversation, plot triggers
Patience - exploration skill, character discovers things by waiting, plot triggers
--------------------------
15
Cyborg - melee unarmed skilll, you develop more powerful weapons, plot triggers
--------------------------
16
Ice sculpture - work/play skill, builds morale, plot triggers
Glass blowing - work/ skill, builds morale, plot triggers
--------------------------
17
Wasteland - skill to play the computer game Wasteland (characters play Wasteland together)
--------------------------
19
Airplane pilot - lets characters fly planes, discover new locations, plot triggers
--------------------------
20
Hypnotism - play skill, change people's minds/dialogue, control zombies
--------------------------
21
Psychology - talk skill, cure low morale
Philosophy - talk skill, effects on conversations & plot triggers
History - exploration skill, read old text books
Languages - exploration skill, understand foreign languages
Scientology- talk skill, effects on conversations, make converts



new skills added -

--------------------------
12
Violins - work/play skill, raises morale, unique combat descriptions ('smashes him with violins')
--------------------------
13
Drinking - play/talk skill, raises morale, unique combat descriptions ('smashes it with beer bottles')
Tracking - exploration skill, discovers hidden loot, encounters, etc.
Cannabinoids - play/talk skill, raises morale, unique combat descriptions
--------------------------
21
Dentist - fixes teeth (teeth are weapons with hit points); useful on cannibals, who fight with their teeth


old skills (modified)

--------------------------
3
Baseball - team game, play skill, builds morale, unique combat descriptions ('clubs him with a baseball bat')
Basketball - team game, play skill, builds morale, unique combat descriptions ('smashes him with basketballs'')
--------------------------
>24
>Cyborg Tech (modified) - fixes cyborg weapons (cyborg weapons have hit points); also Finster's Brain.


more new skills (I'll stop soon) -

--------------------------
3
Werewolf- teeth/claws melee skill, extra damage, recovers from death, infects others
Cartoon - gains xp from any social activity [all social skills apply], unique combat, dialog, plot triggers
Slave - work skill, zero morale, no morale checks, bonuses to leaders, follows leaders
Zombie - zero morale, no morale checks, no camping necessary, eat brains, no dialogue, follows hypnotists
--------------------------
6
Basketweaving - work/play skill, make baskets, fix baskets, plot triggers
Showboat - talk skill, obnoxious dialogue, distracts enemies
Racist - talk skill, racist dialogue, attracts racists, turns party members away
--------------------------
10
Spy - exploration skill, retrieve hidden information, plot triggers
--------------------------
11
Vegeterian - work/play/talk skill, dialogue, plot
--------------------------
12
Tinker - work skill, repairs weapons [weapons have hitpoints]
--------------------------
13
Tobacco - play/talk skill, raises morale, unique descriptions, etc.
Hard Drugs - play/talk skill, raises morale, unique effects, plot triggers, etc.
--------------------------
16
Hacker - exploration skill, deciphers computer code
--------------------------
17
Vampire - teeth/claws melee skill, extra damage, recovers from death, infects others, converts enemies
Zealot - talk/play skill, raises morale, converts enemies, damage bonuses, stacks with leadership
--------------------------
19
Mariner - lets characters sail ships
--------------------------

[Mort2]

I think that we need to distinguish between skills you can get better at and naming every interaction we can think of as a skill. IMO the first one is necessary, the latter is just limiting the list of things we can do.

[undecaf]

Weapon skills:
-Melee Weapons
-Small Guns
-Rifles
-Heavy Weapons
-Energy Weapons
-Demolition

Support skills:
-Medic
-Stealth
-Perception
-Traps
-Steal
-Crafting

Environmental skills:
-Electronics
-Lockpick
-Athletics
-Survival
-Gathering
-Vehicle Operations

I suggest making several activities as Gambling and Speech entirely dependent on stats rather than individual skills when it would make intuitive sense to do so. For example, the idea that you can somehow improve your "skill" at a game like Roulette or Craps is ridiculous- it should be entirely dependent on Luck, nothing else. Likewise, unless we want Charisma to be another dump stat like it was in Fallout 1 and 2, we should have it and Intelligence used to fill most persuasion checks.

That's a rather good list. And a good point.

I'd probably make Perception a stat and replace it with at least one social skill (Speech or Reasoning or something) - as I like the idea of direct player influence in that category - and try to figure out ways of implementing it so that the usefullness of Charisma doesn't suffer. Probably through gating skillincreases by their governing attributes, or something. But that's a just a matter of taste and I could go with mere statchecks with this one too.

[hiptanaka]

I would like to see a few exploration skills like swimming and climbing. It'd be fun to be put in situations where you have to split up your party and send your swimmer (if you have one) through some passage to scout, unlock a door from the other side, etc.

[Gabriel77Dan]

I don't think we can have too short of a skill list either.
We have a party of up to 6 members.
If each member learns 3 skills (tag skils like in Fallout 1/2) then that means we get 18 skills covered.
The problem with Vryheid's skill list is that you can create a party and then get two NPC followers and be able to do everything in the game.
Nothing is locked out for you.
And I think that is a problem which can hurt replayability.

It's not like Fallout 1 where companions were only useful for packmules and killing stuff and it's not like Fallout 2 where they get like 1 ability like Vic with Repair.
No, we get to control and use 6 party members in total, each of their skills will be able to be used. (Scratch that, I just got Ace, we can have 7? Or more?)
Having too small of a skill list isn't good.

While I am on the fence about certain skills in the first Wasteland I gotta say that I don't want them to mainstreamize it too much.
It should have tons of skills, and we shouldn't be able to cover even half of the skills even if we plan on making as many skills useful to out party as possible.
I thought prior to playing Wasteland that it should cut down on it's skills too.
But now after playing it I have to say that Wasteland 2 should have around the same amount of skills as it's predecessor or more.


[edit]


Here's a couple of more skills:

Precisioned shooting: Determines how well you target specific body parts and from how far you can hit targets. (Couple this with the Dexterity stat and you get a great sniper)

Wild Fire: Determines if your character can pull off multiple shots before his/her turn is over.

Quick Hands: Determines how successful your diceroll is to perform two actions in a sequence in one turn. (You can pick Reload then Attack, if your diceroll is successful then you reload and manage to pull off one shot. If diceroll is unsuccessful then you simply reload, this works for other things too like Equip, Evade and Use. You cannot stack 2 Attacks in a row though, you can stack Use or Evade) (This skill is raised by successfully pulling off two actions in a row)

Tracking: Determines how well you can track animals, insects, robots and people in the desert. (You will get a notification in the world map saying something like "You see the tracks of a pack of dogs heading east, do you want to follow them? [Yes] / [No]" (This skill is raised by following tracks)

Drinking: Determines how much you can drink before you pass out from intoxication. Useful for drinking games in bars where you either drink for money or information with an NPC. (This skill is raised by being involved in drinking games in bars, you can also raise this skill by drinking up any alcohol you find/loot/buy.)

Camping: Determines how well you can set up a camp to rest in. (This means that if you have a high Camping skill then you can use the [Rest] function in the world map or in a local map in the wilderness/wasteland and avoid it being disturbed by hostile creatures/people. Basically, it means how well you can set up a hidden camp, it gets raised by using the [rest] mechanic)

Infastructure: Determines how well you can see and destroy infrastructures. Say a wall is a bit rotten then you can with this skill notice this and use Strength or explosives to destroy the wall without everything else collapsing around you. The higher the skill the more weak infastructures you can notice. (It's raised by destroying weak infastructures.)

Cooking: Determines how delicious your food is that you cook, a full belly is a happy belly, and eating delicious food makes anyone a bit more happy. (Affects morale within the party)

Knife-Tricks: Determines how well you can pull off tricks with your knife, like tossing it in the air and catching it, or with a switchblade flipping it around looking all cool-like. (Is used for impressing kids, for demoralizing enemies, for entertaining people in bars and for intimidating civilians.

Kama Sutra Master: Determines how good you are in the sack. Sexing up NPC's can lead to infiltrating places, getting information and getting on the good side of the NPC who's world you just rocked. (Is raised by having sex.)

[Mort2]

I would like to see a few exploration skills like swimming and climbing. It'd be fun to be put in situations where you have to split up your party and send your swimmer (if you have one) through some passage to scout, unlock a door from the other side, etc.

Just out of interest how would this work? would you have to invest points in Swimming/climbing? or just know how todo it, why wouldnt you be able to teach everyone the hard skill of climbing? why this shouldn't be an extrapolation of your agility and strength?

EDIT:
I dont know it seem that the more "skills" we have the less meaningful each one would be.

[undecaf]

I don't think we can have too short of a skill list either.
We have a party of up to 6 members.
If each member learns 3 skills (tag skils like in Fallout 1/2) then that means we get 18 skills covered.
The problem with Vryheid's skill list is that you can create a party and then get two NPC followers and be able to do everything in the game.
Nothing is locked out for you.
And I think that is a problem which can hurt replayability.

That's a matter of how the system is designed to work. Fixing a bad or lacking design by bloating it with options that may or may not be viable, useful, and generally starving of actual effects only leads to more problems.

There's no reason to not allow a party of 6 to potentially cover up all the skills in the list. What matters, is how the progression is handled, how the game utilizes the uses of the said skills, and the overall situations where they are used.

[Conall]

what about a node based skills tree? Rather than simply a huge list of incrementally driven stats. That way balancing skills and one off perks might be more manageable. For example a branch for general ranged accuracy that contained various off shoots for specialisation's such as shooting form the hip with a pistol. There is no point in having a wall of point/percentage driven stats for functions like swimming.

[Wanderer]

I'd like to see more social and stealth related skills in Wasteland 2.

[MDF_MadDogFargo]

I think that we need to distinguish between skills you can get better at and naming every interaction we can think of as a skill. IMO the first one is necessary, the latter is just limiting the list of things we can do.

Social skills are all plot triggers. You get different dialogue options, different quests, different party banter. New melee skills give you new combat descriptions for your kills and adds to the color of the prose. You get better at skills by using the right weapon (or no weapon), practicing the right activity, finding and using the right objects, etc.

I don't think we can have too short of a skill list either.
We have a party of up to 6 members.
If each member learns 3 skills (tag skils like in Fallout 1/2) then that means we get 18 skills covered.
The problem with Vryheid's skill list is that you can create a party and then get two NPC followers and be able to do everything in the game.
Nothing is locked out for you.
And I think that is a problem which can hurt replayability.

It's not like Fallout 1 where companions were only useful for packmules and killing stuff and it's not like Fallout 2 where they get like 1 ability like Vic with Repair.
No, we get to control and use 6 party members in total, each of their skills will be able to be used. (Scratch that, I just got Ace, we can have 7? Or more?)
Having too small of a skill list isn't good.

While I am on the fence about certain skills in the first Wasteland I gotta say that I don't want them to mainstreamize it too much.
It should have tons of skills, and we shouldn't be able to cover even half of the skills even if we plan on making as many skills useful to out party as possible.
I thought prior to playing Wasteland that it should cut down on it's skills too.
But now after playing it I have to say that Wasteland 2 should have around the same amount of skills as it's predecessor or more.

Now you're thinking. Treat it like a PnP game, don't design the game around the graphics, design it around the skills. Since improving skills are what you do in the game, they are the game. The more ways to do it and unique places to use them the more story we have.

BTW I ike your skills list! I could incorporate a few of these into my list! (Sorry I haven't added all the others yet that people have suggested, but I need to think of a way to use it in the story before I add one.)

Here's a couple of more skills:

Precisioned shooting: Determines how well you target specific body parts and from how far you can hit targets. (Couple this with the Dexterity stat and you get a great sniper)

Wild Fire: Determines if your character can pull off multiple shots before his/her turn is over.

Ah! So, like a brawling for ranged weapons? In Wasteland you could get extra attacks with missle or melee, if you improved brawling, which kind of didn't make sense too much.

Quick Hands: Determines how successful your diceroll is to perform two actions in a sequence in one turn. (You can pick Reload then Attack, if your diceroll is successful then you reload and manage to pull off one shot. If diceroll is unsuccessful then you simply reload, this works for other things too like Equip, Evade and Use. You cannot stack 2 Attacks in a row though, you can stack Use or Evade) (This skill is raised by successfully pulling off two actions in a row)

Interesting, add more actions for a character., I like.

Tracking: Determines how well you can track animals, insects, robots and people in the desert. (You will get a notification in the world map saying something like "You see the tracks of a pack of dogs heading east, do you want to follow them? [Yes] / [No]" (This skill is raised by following tracks)

Oh! and then you can sneak up on them, or lead to quests or rare locations.

Drinking: Determines how much you can drink before you pass out from intoxication. Useful for drinking games in bars where you either drink for money or information with an NPC. (This skill is raised by being involved in drinking games in bars, you can also raise this skill by drinking up any alcohol you find/loot/buy.)

Now this one I like! I will add this to my list definitely.

Camping: Determines how well you can set up a camp to rest in. (This means that if you have a high Camping skill then you can use the [Rest] function in the world map or in a local map in the wilderness/wasteland and avoid it being disturbed by hostile creatures/people. Basically, it means how well you can set up a hidden camp, it gets raised by using the [rest] mechanic)

So, if you camp without the camping skill, camping is less effective. And resting works not only your morale but your camping skill too. A feedback loop!

Infastructure: Determines how well you can see and destroy infrastructures. Say a wall is a bit rotten then you can with this skill notice this and use Strength or explosives to destroy the wall without everything else collapsing around you. The higher the skill the more weak infastructures you can notice. (It's raised by destroying weak infastructures.)

Cooking: Determines how delicious your food is that you cook, a full belly is a happy belly, and eating delicious food makes anyone a bit more happy. (Affects morale within the party)

Knife-Tricks: Determines how well you can pull off tricks with your knife, like tossing it in the air and catching it, or with a switchblade flipping it around looking all cool-like. (Is used for impressing kids, for demoralizing enemies, for entertaining people in bars and for intimidating civilians.

Kama Sutra Master: Determines how good you are in the sack. Sexing up NPC's can lead to infiltrating places, getting information and getting on the good side of the NPC who's world you just rocked. (Is raised by having sex.)

Gain XP and levels having sex! I like your thinking. If you do this your characters set off different triggers from their skill levels. Good idea. Any skill Fallout can have, Wasteland can have too, although we could rename it. To clarify, I don't imagine any cheesy romance sequences or anything. Just a suggestive picture and a line of text that says two characters were assigned to play or talk and then they raise their skills together.