Top Down vs Isometric View [poll added]

[geezer]

If the game is fully 3D I see absolutely no reason not to allow both perspectives with no more than the press of a single hot-key.
This would also allow for free camera rotation without anything being sacrificed at all.

But we don't yet know if the game is going to be 3D. As you've seen over in the engine thread there are a whole lot of possibilities. I can't see them ruling out 2D at this point. So I voted for iso, even though a movable camera wouldn't bother me as long as it was done better than NWN2. What worries me about the NWN2 camera, even the improved MoTB one is that it I know I don't like it, but I can't figure out why. I don't know what went wrong with it. So that makes me nervous about a camera like that. I would definitely support zooming though. Changing the distance between the (normally) isometric camera and the party.

[Souva]

+1 for isometric view!

EDIT: can we have some examples of each view from developers standpoint?

[Cattleclysm]

Very silly poll. You guys start reading interviews.

"GB: You've mentioned previously that you're shooting for a top-down perspective for Wasteland 2 to keep asset costs to a minimum. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "top-down"? Will there be a mixture of multiple perspectives, depending on whether the player is exploring, in combat, or in dialogue?

Brian: I hesitate to give too much definitive information on this only because I don't know what our final budget will be and I need more fan input. Clearly we are going top down and that it is likely to be isometric in nature. Some game engines have you bake the assets first which can give a better look while others have you render on the fly and give more latitude with camera work, and we are looking at several options here. I would imagine we will offer some different perspectives when it comes to dialogue but again it is a bit early for me to guarantee anything yet. We will nail down all of this soon but it is critical we make the hardcore happy with this title. I'd rather make a smaller dedicated fan base ecstatic than worry too much about the larger audience. "

Also why is this posted on Avoid section. Seriously.

[Bozar]

You need to try and have a point instead next time. You know why polls like these are made? To showcase developers what the people who FUND their project want. Wanna make a hard guess at what is going to happen if backers want isometric and not top down perspective? They are very likely to get it. I have read what Brian said, but as nothing is set in stone as of yet, and the reason they made this forum is for fan feedback, guess what? This is exactly what they are getting. If you don't give a shit, fine and dandy, let others voice their opinion.

[EcoGuy]

Very silly poll. You guys start reading interviews.

"GB: You've mentioned previously that you're shooting for a top-down perspective for Wasteland 2 to keep asset costs to a minimum. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "top-down"? Will there be a mixture of multiple perspectives, depending on whether the player is exploring, in combat, or in dialogue?

Brian: I hesitate to give too much definitive information on this only because I don't know what our final budget will be and I need more fan input. Clearly we are going top down and that it is likely to be isometric in nature. Some game engines have you bake the assets first which can give a better look while others have you render on the fly and give more latitude with camera work, and we are looking at several options here. I would imagine we will offer some different perspectives when it comes to dialogue but again it is a bit early for me to guarantee anything yet. We will nail down all of this soon but it is critical we make the hardcore happy with this title. I'd rather make a smaller dedicated fan base ecstatic than worry too much about the larger audience. "

Also why is this posted on Avoid section. Seriously.

I agree. It is plain that they already have an idea and I trust them to stay true to the core game and give us great game. I would hate to see alot go into graphics/rendering (switch mode, etc) at the cost of a smaller play scale, less interactions, etc.

[Kide]

I have voted for isometric, as that is the way I like it best as said. If there really needs to be more ways to look of the isometric picture, there could be for pictures from eatch side that you could rotate camera to. Like in commandoes (I think that was the name), that still had pretty mutch the same feeling/soul as otherwise isometric games.

But plain old isometric is more than fine with me.

[Sobboth]

I would prefer Top-down but false perpestive top-down, like Wasteland 1 (with much improved graphic of course, i think it could be very pleasant).
Certainly not real Top down like Driftmoon or "in between" like Ultima 7.
Fallout 1/2 or ToEE isometric "cavalier oblique" would be fine too (but so classic ).
I hoped it would be a fixed camera, i dislike when moving the camera is a part of the gameplay.
Rick,i have greatly appreciated both your artwork and your input (beautifull 3D).

[Badunius]

EDIT: can we have some examples of each view from developers standpoint?

+1
right now we are arguing about nothing
and voting without even a hint of what we are voting for
I suppose we realy need to see some concepts/sketches about how game screen will look in different situations before making a decision

[tootboot]

Isometric all the way.

[geezer]

Badunius, Fallout 1 or 2 are examples of isometric. NeverWinter Nights 2 is an example of a camera you can rotate. No doubt there are others. Driftmoon is an example of true top down perspective. Wasteland 1 is an example of a kind of hybrid top down perspective where the scenery is top down and the characters have a kind of first person perspective.

[Badunius]

Badunius, Fallout 1 or 2 are examples of isometric. NeverWinter Nights 2 is an example of a camera you can rotate. No doubt there are others. Driftmoon is an example of true top down perspective.

Brian Fargo says top-down
Brian Fargo means isometric
hundreds of posts where people name one thing with different names
and use one name for different things
so I would like to vote for sketched picture
not for abstract term

PS
however I've already voted for top-down ,
just because I like it,
not because it provides better tactical view without need to constantly adjust camera position.
To tell the truth, even a minimap with red and white dots will suit me perfectly

[Brother None]

so I would like to vote for sketched picture
not for abstract term

Camera pitches will be a part of the cycle around the vision document. Sometime soon.

[Badunius]

Camera pitches will be a part of the cycle around the vision document. Sometime soon.

And then we should vote, not before

[Brother None]

Nah. We'll just vote again. We don't have a limit on polls or anything.

[geezer]

Well I do think Fargo's use of "top down" initially was unfortunate if he didn't mean something like Driftmoon or at least the original Wasteland. It was quite a while before he clarified what he meant to some extent. From this interview it seems that by 'top down' he means basically anything that is not first person perspective. He seems to be using the term as a kind of general category. So, while there is certainly some ambiguity from Fargo himself, the actual meanings of the terms are pretty straightforward. Well, except that isometric really is intended to mean axonometric projection. Here he seems to be favoring an axonometric view, but it is not 100% decided. The only thing he seems to be certain of is that the perspective will not be first person.

GB: You've mentioned previously that you're shooting for a top-down perspective for Wasteland 2 to keep asset costs to a minimum. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "top-down"? Will there be a mixture of multiple perspectives, depending on whether the player is exploring, in combat, or in dialogue?

Brian: I hesitate to give too much definitive information on this only because I don't know what our final budget will be and I need more fan input. Clearly we are going top down and that it is likely to be isometric in nature. Some game engines have you bake the assets first which can give a better look while others have you render on the fly and give more latitude with camera work, and we are looking at several options here. I would imagine we will offer some different perspectives when it comes to dialogue but again it is a bit early for me to guarantee anything yet. We will nail down all of this soon but it is critical we make the hardcore happy with this title. I'd rather make a smaller dedicated fan base ecstatic than worry too much about the larger audience.

[Badunius]

fable 1-3 is not first person, but I'll hardly call it a top-down...

BTW, I've found some driftmoon screenshots... perfect... perfect example of crapy 3D Graphics, that couldn't been saved even by a top-down projection

[geezer]

I just looked at some Fable screenshots and they seem like first person to me. What is it about Fable that wasn't first person? Or was the camera movable so that you could look down on the scenery if you wanted? That would make it both first person and isometric and maybe even top down depending on which way the camera was pointed. At any one time you can only have one point of view, but a 3D game with a movable camera could be first person, isometric, and top down depending on the camera angle. I guess one could argue that with 3D engines there is no need to restrict the camera to any particular angle. That way you could please everyone except those who want 2D art or a fixed perspective.

[Badunius]

I just looked at some Fable screenshots and they seem like first person to me.

first person
not first person
another first person
and this is not

[Vryheid]

The only RPGs I wouldn't mind playing in top down mode these days are Advance Wars and Pokemon. Heck, even Pokemon is starting to look more isometric with Black/White. I hope Wasteland 2 follows suit.

[Ekaros]

The only RPGs I wouldn't mind playing in top down mode these days are Advance Wars and Pokemon. Heck, even Pokemon is starting to look more isometric with Black/White. I hope Wasteland 2 follows suit.

Cthulhu Saves The World
Breath of Death VII

Are last top-down games I played ;D