No Quest Compass

[Workbench]

Every RPG in the last decade has been a hand holding abomination. Please just tell me which way to go. I know where Northwest is; tell me to walk that direction. There is no need to put a marker on a map or on a compass. We don't need an arrow on the screen. Please let us use our brains in a game for once because it sure has been awhile since I played a RPG and actually had to think.

I like adventure in my adventure games.

this.

[Herbert]

Of course there shouldn't be a quest compass, and given it's post-apocalyptic, some amount of no hand holding is also encouraged.

[dnr]

just highlight directions in your descriptions/quest log/journal/notes is pretty good imo.

[Elthosian]

Yeah, hand-holding sucks, especially when they want to do it in every freaking type of quest, there was nothing as unrewarding as doing those "investigation" missions in New Vegas that could be resumed as "go to this point to get the next clue, follow the arrow so you don't get lost kiddie!!", it was sooo stupid and made me feel like Obsidian thought I had no brains whatsoever, same goes for Bethesda with Oblivion+guns, and the last two TES games.

[madmax]

Yes, a big "NO" to quest compass and self-solving gameplay would be appreciated.
Generic, inaccurate hints about where to find something/someone? Sure.
A big glowing arrow leading the way? Fuck that shit.

Agreed. Let us use our brains instead plz

[EcoGuy]

I absolutely, whole heartedly agree!!! I hate being lead around by the nose with quest compasses. I want to be challenged and do a little work. For those who don't agree make it part of a game environment toggle or difficulty setting. If I am told to go somewhere I should have to look at the map, find where I think it is by description of general direction and try to get there. Getting lost is part of the game and sometimes the best part. If someone is looking to finish in hours then their are plenty of games like that out there have at it. Nothing wrong about marking a map once you find something but also it is more realistic and would be a refereshing change to actually have to work to get/find something rather than follow the trail of the red arrow.

[TheEmissary]

I think I have to agree with the OP here about the quest compass. I have seen a lot of games that will literally hold your hand all the way to each and every quest item with pin point accuracy. Maybe it has merit in quick 6-8hour games but games averaging 100-200hours it really hurts the immersion factor. I know in all the sandbox games I have ever played I try to find every lore/codex entries and explore off the beaten path so I would really enjoy having to figure things out on my own.

I have a feeling however that the lack of quest compass will be mooted by the fact that a site like Wowhead or another game data mining site that will spoil all the locations of certain items and npcs.

I do hope that game allows you to make your own entries in a in-game journal. I remember a lot of old school RPGs that I used to play came with a game manual with 10-15 blank pages in the back for making notes.

[Elthosian]

I think I have to agree with the OP here about the quest compass. I have seen a lot of games that will literally hold your hand all the way to each and every quest item with pin point accuracy. Maybe it has merit in quick 6-8hour games but games averaging 100-200hours it really hurts the immersion factor. I know in all the sandbox games I have ever played I try to find every lore/codex entries and explore off the beaten path so I would really enjoy having to figure things out on my own.

I have a feeling however that the lack of quest compass will be mooted by the fact that a site like Wowhead or another game data mining site that will spoil all the locations of certain items and npcs.

I do hope that game allows you to make your own entries in a in-game journal. I remember a lot of old school RPGs that I used to play came with a game manual with 10-15 blank pages in the back for making notes.

I think I am liking the idea of having your own blank journal ingame, instead of a modern one, that way you just type everything you think is important (and you also have to pay more attention to the enviroment and to what the NPCs say), it could be an amazing tool for making the role-playing aspect of the game more immersive

[alexlovesinxile]

As far as keeping a journal with notes you write yourself, I think it'd be nice for InXile to 'streamline' notes to some extent. I hate hand holding, but having to jump into the journal and type of everything I want to remember for later just seems damn tedious to me.

For instance, maybe we could select text that an npc says, right click for a context menu, and select "add to journal," thereby creating an entry like, "( 1400, June 5th, 2234 ) Roger said: "If you come to an old sign post stuck in a pile of rocks, you've traveled too far north"

[Plasmablaster]

I'm also against the quest compass. A map mark at most.

As far as the quest notes is concerned, I am pretty messy with my quests, tend to leave many of htem unfinished and decide to finish them later-on which means that many times I just don't remember how the details relate to one-another or who exaclty the NPCs involved are. This is a major downside in many games that don't offer extensive quest notes.

So, I need good explanatory notes, in essence a consise summary of what the quest is about and who the central characters are.

[Anarkopsykotik]

I am against quest compass, but I am for detailed journal and map where you can put your owns notes.

[Jipez]

Yup, good and clear journal is all you need. Maybe even possibility to write stuff there yourself. Compasses and arrows just make it feel like playing a linear action game. Totally destroys the adventure factor.

[timobkg]

Those games needed the compasses and quest arrows because they were designed around them. There were so many quests, and the directions were so vague, that it would be a nightmare to manage without a compass leading you on. To be honest, most of the missions were quantity rather than quality, but they gave the feeling of having so much to do.

If you get rid of the quest compass, then the game has to be designed around that. Fewer missions, specific directions, and a journal that nicely catalogs everything. When someone talks to you about a location, it should be marked on your map since that's what would realistically happen. If I come back to a game after a few weeks, or a few months, away, I should be able to pull up the journal and figure out what I should do or where I should go. It doesn't have to list them as quests, but should organize everything under general headings. For example:

Slavers
Have been hitting the town of Kaalos, which offered a bounty for stopping their raids.
Reports have them coming from the South West of Kaalos. There have also been sightings of them North of Kuwat and East of Crater.
Some say they're lead by huge man, 7 feet tall. Others say they're lead by a Ranger.

[Kide]

No Quest compas. It ruins the immersion, and the exitment of trying to find your way. And false rumors would be awesome too.

Journal would be nice, if you for example get a describtion from a person/place, it would be nice to put it down yourself in there, or have it automaticly register in a journal. Map, with the possibility to write your own marks definitly.

[DNSDies]

I'm gonna have to disagree.

The quest compass's purpose is to help you keep track of moving targets.
Nothing is more infuriating than spending an hour trying to track down a moving quest target, especially when you give NPCs a schedule and make them move around all the time.

If you are going to axe the compass and just use a journal, at least make it detailed to the point where I can pick up a game after 2 months and figure out what I was doing from the journal alone.
Obscure and difficult to track quest lines are a sin of horrible game development on par with pixel-hunting in adventure games.

[Infinitron]

I'm gonna have to disagree.

The quest compass's purpose is to help you keep track of moving targets.
Nothing is more infuriating than spending an hour trying to track down a moving quest target, especially when you give NPCs a schedule and make them move around all the time.

If you are going to axe the compass and just use a journal, at least make it detailed to the point where I can pick up a game after 2 months and figure out what I was doing from the journal alone.
Obscure and difficult to track quest lines are a sin of horrible game development on par with pixel-hunting in adventure games.

You can be given information on where a given person tends to be. ("Joe is usually at the bar at the evening if you need him. Otherwise, he's at his brahmin ranch.")

Of course, modern game designers that rely on quest compasses no longer bother to provide you with this information, contributing to the degeneration of the genre. And eventually, people start forgetting that it could ever be otherwise.

[Plasmablaster]

If you get rid of the quest compass, then the game has to be designed around that. Fewer missions, specific directions, and a journal that nicely catalogs everything. When someone talks to you about a location, it should be marked on your map since that's what would realistically happen. If I come back to a game after a few weeks, or a few months, away, I should be able to pull up the journal and figure out what I should do or where I should go. It doesn't have to list them as quests, but should organize everything under general headings. For example:

I can't quite follow you here. How do directions regarding the whereabouts of a quest relate to its story and characters? If you omit the compass you can have exactly the same quests only with the added necessity of having a stricter naming system for the game's regions/neighbourhoods, a map that can help you figure out how to go there (nothing like the FO3 &NV maps where you coulnd't always tell if a certain part on the map was accessible from another via some visible route) and the written directions being a bit more descriptive.

If I'm not making any mistake, the topic is just about the compass which saves you the trouble of trying to read your map and figuring a way to reach your destination -a nice trouble in games. It has nothing to do with your journal or notes which can still help you figure out where you should go and what to do -even without the compass, since a convenient spot on the map could be all you wanted.

[golgepapaz]

[

I can't quite follow you here. How do directions regarding the whereabouts of a quest relate to its story and characters? If you omit the compass you can have exactly the same quests only with the added necessity of having a stricter naming system for the game's regions/neighbourhoods, a map that can help you figure out how to go there (nothing like the FO3 &NV maps where you coulnd't always tell if a certain part on the map was accessible from another via some visible route) and the written directions being a bit more descriptive.

If I'm not making any mistake, the topic is just about the compass which saves you the trouble of trying to read your map and figuring a way to reach your destination -a nice trouble in games. It has nothing to do with your journal or notes which can still help you figure out where you should go and what to do -even without the compass, since a convenient spot on the map could be all you wanted.

I think he just means with the removal of the quest compass, you won't have a chance to complete the quests because the game world does not contain necessary information. Assuming we are all adults now(well, some of us are.) and can't play the game 10 hours straight, it would be hard or frustrating the find where the quest leads after a break. For example if you turn the quest compass off in skyrim you won't be able to complete quests when you fire it up next time because they are one-line entries on your quest log with no meaningful content. this also is the decline created by the quest compass. The game SHOULD be designed with consideration to quests . If I need to go the highpool and I don't know where it is I should be able to ask a travelling merchant where it is or use other sources of information and log that information in my journal or annotate on my map whatever.In today's games it's easy .Just slap a quest compass and follow your GPS device to the end.It saves monies but it's lazy. I'd rather have fleshed world than slow-motion ending animations.

[Plasmablaster]

I think he just means with the removal of the quest compass, you won't have a chance to complete the quests because the game world does not contain necessary information. Assuming we are all adults now(well, some of us are.) and can't play the game 10 hours straight, it would be hard or frustrating the find where the quest leads after a break. For example if you turn the quest compass off in skyrim you won't be able to complete quests when you fire it up next time because they are one-line entries on your quest log with no meaningful content. this also is the decline created by the quest compass. The game SHOULD be designed with consideration to quests . If I need to go the highpool and I don't know where it is I should be able to ask a travelling merchant where it is or use other sources of information and log that information in my journal or annotate on my map whatever.In today's games it's easy .Just slap a quest compass and follow your GPS device to the end.It saves monies but it's lazy. I'd rather have fleshed world than slow-motion ending animations.

As time goes by, I feel increasingly better with my decision not to buy and play Skyrim. So the compass in that game plays the role of "go where I point you to and when you reach the proper point you'll understand what you'll have to do"??

Yes, if we are talking about that type of game compass and lack of notes/journal, the quest presentation and interface system needs to be re-structured from the ground-up. Still though, I don't think the quests need to be altered themselves.

[Drool]

As time goes by, I feel increasingly better with my decision not to buy and play Skyrim. So the compass in that game plays the role of "go where I point you to and when you reach the proper point you'll understand what you'll have to do"??

Not as such. It's not turn-by-turn navigation. If you need to go to Random Cave, the mark will point to the cave entrance. If there's a mountain between you and the cave, it'll point to the cave, not to the route you need to take to get around the mountain.

Frankly, it's not nearly as odious as people like to pretend it is. If you know where you are, and you know where your target is, having the game tell you that your target is east of you when it's east of you isn't exactly hand holding. But then again, I guess there were people who liked buying up reams of graph paper to make their own maps and who still bitch about how Bard's Tale 3 ruined everything by introducing automapping.