It's gotta have grit, style, and substance.

[alexandergr]

Absolutely no reference to rape, which would occur with both men and women after a nuclear exchange. Exploring an irradiated world where over 6 billion individuals have been erased from the planet is dark enough.

Slavery would once again rise its ugly head in a post-apocalyptic world. Perhaps the Rangers will be given opportunities to trade (or not to trade) with merchants who own slaves. A good example of this moral dilemma was in the first episode of Jericho.

Follow the example of presenting adult themes as in Wasteland 1. If expletives are used, perhaps use them in combat taunts as in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, but strong language should not be overused.

So slavery, stealing, killing, maiming, selling drugs to exploit, are all ok but rape is too immoral and harsh? Get real, will you?

[GROUNDZERO]

Absolutely no reference to rape, which would occur with both men and women after a nuclear exchange. Exploring an irradiated world where over 6 billion individuals have been erased from the planet is dark enough.

Slavery would once again rise its ugly head in a post-apocalyptic world. Perhaps the Rangers will be given opportunities to trade (or not to trade) with merchants who own slaves. A good example of this moral dilemma was in the first episode of Jericho.

Follow the example of presenting adult themes as in Wasteland 1. If expletives are used, perhaps use them in combat taunts as in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, but strong language should not be overused.

So slavery, stealing, killing, maiming, selling drugs to exploit, are all ok but rape is too immoral and harsh? Get real, will you?

Exactly, i don´t know what are these people thinking (they´re not). I guess logic is not a valuable concept for some people. It´s kind of fascinating in a way. Here we are in a forum to talk about a game that is probably the last chance to have a game not "raped" by PC people and sensitivity trainers and still, people are bitching about virtual morality.

[owenmp]

Minimal mention of rape would attract the game to more female gamers. Most of Wasteland fans were male but female gamers who enjoy action and RPGs are increasing in number.

Liz Danforth has been added to the design team. Hearing from a female Wasteland 2 team member who built Wasteland 1 on this subject would help.

I want my party to be covered in blood (fine red mist) after a battle is completed more and discussing sexual crimes less.

I did not object to the sexual themes in Fallout 1 and 2. Post-apocalyptic worlds are supposed to be dark. If explicit sexual references are desired, there is an entire Web domain for that content.

There is a huge list of drugs that could be used in Wasteland 2 in the RPG book OGL Cybernet.

[Sharkyzero]

Tasteful rape = rape underneath a Renaissance oil painting. /class

[owenmp]

Seeing fields of skulls and skeletons where each footstep would produce a crunching sound would be cool. Have many buildings with blackened silhouettes of people, the only traces of people vaporized from nuclear explosions.

[Sub-Human]

Have many buildings with blackened silhouettes of people, the only traces of people vaporized from nuclear explosions.

That's a great idea. I like it

[alexandergr]

Minimal mention of rape would attract the game to more female gamers. Most of Wasteland fans were male but female gamers who enjoy action and RPGs are increasing in number.

Liz Danforth has been added to the design team. Hearing from a female Wasteland 2 team member who built Wasteland 1 on this subject would help.

I want my party to be covered in blood (fine red mist) after a battle is completed more and discussing sexual crimes less.

I did not object to the sexual themes in Fallout 1 and 2. Post-apocalyptic worlds are supposed to be dark. If explicit sexual references are desired, there is an entire Web domain for that content.

There is a huge list of drugs that could be used in Wasteland 2 in the RPG book OGL Cybernet.

There is no reason at all to take something from the setting to make the game more appealing to some players. Being true to the setting is a matter of great importance. If the world is supposed to be grim, violent and ugly, I want to see it in all its "glory". I want to play the game and really get the idea of how awful an apocalypse would be. If the girl likes it, then great. If not, there is some other game for her. Not all things must be made for everyone.

And to end, don't think about rape from the rapist's perspective but from the victim's or their loved ones. Have you seen the movie 'Law abiding citizen'? Watch the beginning and rethink about the issue.

edit: I found a link actually. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3FAyARAVVI&feature=related

[homeslice82]

There is no reason at all to take something from the setting to make the game more appealing to some players. Being true to the setting is a matter of great importance. If the world is supposed to be grim, violent and ugly, I want to see it in all its "glory". I want to play the game and really get the idea of how awful an apocalypse would be. If the girl likes it, then great. If not, there is some other game for her. Not all things must be made for everyone.

The entire question is whether the game is going to be "grim, violent and ugly". That's what we're deciding here. Seeing as the first game didn't fit that mold, I'm inclined to agree with owenmp. Wasteland was never grimdark. It didn't "tackle the ugly underbelly of humanity". It was pulpy-absurd-serious, with a touch of black comedy. Wasteland 2 doesn't need rape for the sake of realism. In fact, including rape would be inconsistent with the original game. So, when the subject matter is a huge turnoff for 50% of the world's population, and when it actually doesn't fit the tone of the game, what do you do? You don't include it.

[Anarkopsykotik]

Rape is horrible thing, just as murder, torture, cannibalism, slavery, hard drugs... I don't see why that aspect shouldn't be explored.
Actually I played a F2 TC, where you would end up in a slaver organization. At the end of a mission to gather slaves, your boss sends you to find one of your men to go back to camp. You find him trying to rape one of the slave, and you can leave him be, stop him, kill him. And if you sent him away, you could just take his place. I was intrigued as you're not often given that option in a game, so I did it. I thought there would be a drawback, the girl kills you, your boss cause you trouble, anything like that. Not at all. But the description of the girl looks when she realize you did not really saved her, and description of the aftermath, were enough to make you feel like a fucking bastard and a bit disugsted of yourself. Especially since it was free of consequences. And that was fucking good to feel these kinds of things in a RPG where you play a slaver.
Noone ask to be able to rape death bodies or all women who come in your way. But rape is one of those things you expect in a post nuclear wasteland, it's part of the world, and well realised, it can mark your experience. And well, I not especially expect to be able to make my characters rape anything (although it could be done, I don't think much people would pick that choice anyway), but they can witness it, hear about it, it's part of the world.

Oh, and last... Who said only women are ever raped?

[homeslice82]

Rape is horrible thing, just as murder, torture, cannibalism, slavery, hard drugs... I don't see why that aspect shouldn't be explored.

There's a critical point here that you aren't seeing. Murder, torture, cannibalism and hard drugs all have something in common: they fit with Wasteland's serious-absurd tone. Slavery and rape, not so much. It's hard to get jokey with slavery, and it's impossible with rape. As soon as you include rape, Wasteland-style comedy evaporates, and you're left with either completely tasteless humor or gritty realism. Neither of these things fit Wasteland.

[Anarkopsykotik]

Rape is horrible thing, just as murder, torture, cannibalism, slavery, hard drugs... I don't see why that aspect shouldn't be explored.

There's a critical point here that you aren't seeing. Murder, torture, cannibalism and hard drugs all have something in common: they fit with Wasteland's serious-absurd tone. Slavery and rape, not so much. It's hard to get jokey with slavery, and it's impossible with rape. As soon as you include rape, Wasteland-style comedy evaporates, and you're left with either completely tasteless humor or gritty realism. Neither of these things fit Wasteland.

So you can joke on death, cannibalism, drugs, torture, but not on rape?
Damn, politically correct will always be beyond me. Like a french humorist said :
"You can laugh of anything, but not with anyone"

[homeslice82]

So you can joke on death, cannibalism, drugs, torture, but not on rape?
Damn, politically correct will always be beyond me. Like a french humorist said :
"You can laugh of anything, but not with anyone"

I don't see how it's a matter of political correctness. It's just a fact. Graphic rape can't be used for comedy, unless you're shooting for tasteless jokes. It just isn't funny. Cannibalism, on the other hand, has been a staple of black comedy for time immemorial. Same goes for death and drugs. And torture is even more commonly used for comedy, or at least lighthearted seriousness--see The Princess Bride.

[Anarkopsykotik]

I know a film of dark humor, where there are jokes about death... and... yeah, rape. "C'est arrivé près de chez vous". 1992.
That you can joke or not about rape may not be political correctness, but just because you can't imagine it being funny for you doesn't mean it can't be funny for anyone.
As said above:
"You can laugh of anything, but not with anyone"

[homeslice82]

I know a film of dark humor, where there are jokes about death... and... yeah, rape. "C'est arrivé près de chez vous". 1992.
That you can joke or not about rape may not be political correctness, but just because you can't imagine it being funny for you doesn't mean it can't be funny for anyone.
As said above:
"You can laugh of anything, but not with anyone"

I just looked that up. Note that I never said that you couldn't make jokes about graphic rape: I said that you could only make tasteless jokes about it. That's an apt description of that movie. You may find it funny (I don't), but that doesn't make it any less tasteless.

Compare the flute scene in that film to blowing up the Hobo Dog stand in Wasteland, or discovering that Doc Morbid is selling human flesh as food in Fallout, or Kong riding the nuke to ground zero in Dr. Strangelove. If you can't see that there are degrees in taste and cleverness between those things, then I don't know what to say.

[Vryheid]

Rape is horrible thing, just as murder, torture, cannibalism, slavery, hard drugs... I don't see why that aspect shouldn't be explored.

There's a critical point here that you aren't seeing. Murder, torture, cannibalism and hard drugs all have something in common: they fit with Wasteland's serious-absurd tone. Slavery and rape, not so much. It's hard to get jokey with slavery, and it's impossible with rape. As soon as you include rape, Wasteland-style comedy evaporates, and you're left with either completely tasteless humor or gritty realism. Neither of these things fit Wasteland.

So you can joke on death, cannibalism, drugs, torture, but not on rape?
Damn, politically correct will always be beyond me. Like a french humorist said :
"You can laugh of anything, but not with anyone"

The difference is that virtually everybody takes murder, cannibalism, drug addiction and torture seriously if they see it happening in real life. Believe it or not, a significant chunk of the world population still believes that most rape victims "had it coming to them" regardless of the circumstances. Jokes about rape just perpetuate the stereotype. Also, there's the whole issue of sexual assault triggers... if the jokes demean rape victims enough that they cause traumatic flashbacks to a portion of the playerbase, isn't that justification enough to tone them down a bit?

Now you may find the whole subject of rape to be hilarious, and I'm not disagreeing with your right to do so. However, if the developers of Wasteland 2 want to appeal to a wide range of people, they need to approach their writing subjects with a bit of tact. That means acknowledging that humor does not exist in a vacuum, and that some subjects will be taken a whole lot more offensively than others.

[SXX]

I don't see how it's a matter of political correctness. It's just a fact. Graphic rape can't be used for comedy, unless you're shooting for tasteless jokes.

I don't think everything should be graphical.

It just isn't funny. Cannibalism, on the other hand, has been a staple of black comedy for time immemorial.

Are you sure? Killing of children can be used in the game?
Why rape is worse than burning dog/man/women/child?

[geezer]

Did eternality's hilarious post get deleted? That is so lame.

I do think rape is very, very funny, but I think it should only be added to the game for the purposes of humor. Just make sure it's tasteful. And eternality's scenario would indeed be milk shooting out the nose hilarious. I do not find cold blooded murder funny however. Perhaps we should not allow any killing in the game.

[SXX]

if the jokes demean rape victims enough that they cause traumatic flashbacks to a portion of the playerbase, isn't that justification enough to tone them down a bit?

As result we can't kill children and animals.
Black people or LGBT-characters always should be good for same reasons.

I think drugs or alcohol can cause traumatic for much more people? Isn't they?

[homeslice82]

Are you sure? Killing of children can be used in the game?

It was in Wasteland 1. I don't want some kind of sadistic murder-fantasy, obviously.

Why rape is worse than burning dog/man/women/child?

If you're talking about graphic, realistic torture-burning, then I don't think that should be used either. It doesn't fit with Wasteland 1's tone.

Did eternality's hilarious post get deleted? That is so lame.

I do think rape is very, very funny, but I think it should only be added to the game for the purposes of humor. Just make sure it's tasteful. And eternality's scenario would indeed be milk shooting out the nose hilarious. I do not find cold blooded murder funny however. Perhaps we should not allow any killing in the game.

I have yet to figure out how to take your posts. You're either the world's greatest troll or a very bizarre person.

[SXX]

If you're talking about graphic, realistic torture-burning, then I don't think that should be used either. It doesn't fit with Wasteland 1's tone.

I don't really need something like rape in the game, but I don't like when people say something like:
Cannibalism is better than rape!11111!!!1!!!

It really awful when people try to justify barriers imposed on them by society.
People have seen rape scenes in movies and read in books, but when we talking about the game they told that is unacceptable.
In an isometric game, may be in text only (like in book), muhahahahah