Blatant "Quests"

[alanschu]

How about a journal system that takes more intelligent notes the more intelligent your squad is?

[Woolfe]

How about a journal system that takes more intelligent notes the more intelligent your squad is?

Thats not a bad idea..... might be hard to balance but I think it is a damn interesting concept.

[Lucius]

I think the most important thing with the journal is that it's organized, or organizable by the player. We don't want Morrowind's original quest journal.

[tuluse]

If the game does not spell it out? Not really. Which is why I am in favor of OP's suggestion.

Nothing is specifically a quest unless we try and do it to see if it can be done.

Example
Farmer Joe requested my squad to lead his cattle to the Glowing Fields.

It sounds like a quest, but it really isn't because:
1) Joe was driven mad after his cattle were all taken away by gun-toting Wasteland feudal lords years ago. There is no cattle.
2) Joe is no farmer. He is an informant for a behind-the-scenes warlord and "lead my cattle to the Glowing Fields" is a secret phrase that require you to reply with a specific answer before he will reveal his true identity to give you a REAL quest.
3) Joe is a Butcher actually... and the Rangers are his cattle. The Glowing Fields is where he slaughters his cattle.

We just don't know! Well... unless we have a Quest Journal that *trumpets blaring* tell us that, yes, there are some meat on legs waiting for us to herd them from A to B.

I'd rather have the game keep me guessing than to spoon-feed and hand-hold me like I'm some kinda goddamn retard. Allow me to make notes on an in-game journal, that I could organize freely with tabs and all, at any time in the game is all I ask for.

This is a problem you're creating.

Quest added "Joe wants you to lead his cattle to the glowing fields"
>you head to the glowing fields
1) There are no cattle -> quest updated "Where are the cattle?"
2) On responding correctly -> quest updated "Real mission" on not whatever could use the same thing as 1
3) There are no cattle and you're attacked -> quest updated "fuck"

This is pretty much what Fallout 1/2 did, and I think it worked fine. The "quest" isn't about cattle it's about what Joe says.

[Mandemon]

Yeah, I don't know any quest journal that spelled out twist, at least on purpose. They all update based on what you or your character knows. You get first impression or given quest and journal updates as it goes forward.

[Joby]

How about a journal system that takes more intelligent notes the more intelligent your squad is?

Haha, that would be funny, "You need to talk to that one guy in... that city to the East... no wait... West? The city had a funny name. Possibly."

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

[Zombra]

No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I hope you are in the meeting when the quest UI is discussed. Tell em Zombra says he agrees with you. (Now that should get their attention!)

[Woolfe]

No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I hope you are in the meeting when the quest UI is discussed. Tell em Zombra says he agrees with you. (Now that should get their attention!)

I used to love drawing the maps for myself. I reckon if I looked hard enough I'd find a notepad with the complete maps of Pools of Radiance, or Eye of the beholder

That said, it was a lot easier in those days, because the worlds weren't as big. Something I noticed about Arcanum (which I didn't play much due to other reasons) was that soemtimes I was left a little lost as to what to do, I had nothing to sort of push me in a direction. But as I said, I didn't play it much due to RL at the time, so that may have just been me.

[Drool]

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I... do not. Well, I can live without most of that, but auto-mapping was possibly the greatest innovation in the history of gaming. I hated making my own maps.

[Ronin73]

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I... do not. Well, I can live without most of that, but auto-mapping was possibly the greatest innovation in the history of gaming. I hated making my own maps.

Yep I sucked at making maps. That is one thing about old school gaming I will never miss.

Had to chuckle when the recently released Legend of Grimrock included an old school mode which gave you the option to pull out the ole grid paper and map away. Masochists

[Mandemon]

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I... do not. Well, I can live without most of that, but auto-mapping was possibly the greatest innovation in the history of gaming. I hated making my own maps.

Neither do I. I had few games like that and they were real pain in the ass if you lost those notes and my maps were always too inaccurate...

[Woolfe]

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I... do not. Well, I can live without most of that, but auto-mapping was possibly the greatest innovation in the history of gaming. I hated making my own maps.

Neither do I. I had few games like that and they were real pain in the ass if you lost those notes and my maps were always too inaccurate...

Damn... back in the day, the map tiles were always square.... So real simple to map

Tho I do recall a mate of mine bribing me to get a copy of my maps cause he hated doing it himself

I had those little square marks down to a fine art.... But yeah, glad we have the things like auto mappers etc... makes life a little easier. I wonder if you could add a skill for that too... Map is more detailed with a higher skill. Not wrong with a low skill, simply not as detailed.... Altho wrong could be interesting if it only happened once in a while.... That'd be a nasty surprise to have slipped into the game

[Zombra]

I had those little square marks down to a fine art.... But yeah, glad we have the things like auto mappers etc... makes life a little easier. I wonder if you could add a skill for that too...

Wasn't there a game that did this? You had to have Cartography skill to have an automap? There, I found it. Might & Magic III. I have to say I love Woolfe's idea so much I just about flipped. Surveyor/Cartographer is such a natural skill for the Desert Ranger set, it's hard to believe. Especially for a team who's supposed to go set up a new base of operations.

[BlackGauntlet]

This is a problem you're creating.

Quest added "Joe wants you to lead his cattle to the glowing fields"
>you head to the glowing fields
1) There are no cattle -> quest updated "Where are the cattle?"
2) On responding correctly -> quest updated "Real mission" on not whatever could use the same thing as 1
3) There are no cattle and you're attacked -> quest updated "fuck"

This is pretty much what Fallout 1/2 did, and I think it worked fine. The "quest" isn't about cattle it's about what Joe says.

Yes, I must admit that it worked TOO fine, actually. To the point that I'd HAVE to go to the Glowing Fields regardless of (1) (2; if I didn't know that I require a password yet) or (3).

Haha, that would be funny, "You need to talk to that one guy in... that city to the East... no wait... West? The city had a funny name. Possibly."

Yeah, it'd be like the "Stupid Character" dialogue in Fallout 1. "Me care for moo-moo!" Heh... classic.

[GodComplex]

How about a journal system that takes more intelligent notes the more intelligent your squad is?

Haha, that would be funny, "You need to talk to that one guy in... that city to the East... no wait... West? The city had a funny name. Possibly."

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I was telling my wife about the original Quest for Glory the other day. Where you're dropped into a town and all the plot you get is 'go be a hero.' She didn't think it sounded like fun to wander around 20 ought screens for hours looking for adventure with no hints.

I'd love to see a return to something like that, at least until I spend a few hours hunting for my next contact or searching the forest for that lone tree with hole in it. Those parts sucked.

[Mandemon]

You know, this is sounding like we should just take whole control away from player. Let's make everything in the game a skill.

Map making? Skill.
Quest keeping? Skill.
Completing quest? Skill.
Moving around? Skill.
Playing the game? Skill.

Let's move player to passive audience part and let the game play itself! Why need to have players skills to take part in anything or make anything easier for player by keeping notes.

Why not just have player two buttons: "Roll character" and "Play". After pressing "Play", all control is taken from player and he only gets to watch as game plays itself.

[tuluse]

I have to admit, I miss the days when you'd get a new game and first thing you did was grab some blank paper and a pen. No mini maps, no quest announcements, no beacons showing the way... just you, the game and your wits.

I... do not. Well, I can live without most of that, but auto-mapping was possibly the greatest innovation in the history of gaming. I hated making my own maps.

Count me in as someone who is glad computers do the busy work of playing a game for us.

If I want to draw maps, I'll just play DnD with my friends.

[Prowokator]

If we get an ingame map showing locations, how about make it skill based? A compass that shows to a certain map point, but if you lack the skill, never quite accurately.

A journal is a good thing, and like in Legend of Grimrock, there could be a "old school" mode where you can turn off certain helping aspects of the game (like the journal, or automap etc). Fallout 1 and 2 didn't really shine on this thing IIRC.

And no, I'd rather not get a full screen confirmation for completing a quest. Just a text in the message window (if there will be one, and I hope there will) showing the XP and/or quest name completed.

[AgentTate]

Personally, I think it would be nice to have mapping skill based (higher skill pointing out more features/info), and journal readouts based on int and associated skills (high int yields more info/skill rolls during convo/through searching produce information in the journal). It doesn't automate the game, it fills in gaps and leaves a great reminder of what was going on if you got sidetracked by something else. Journals are especially great if you put the game down for a week and come back thinking, "What the hell was I doing? I can't remember anything."

[Zombra]

You know, this is sounding like we should just take whole control away from player. Let's make everything in the game a skill.

Hey, if you'd rather map every hex in the game yourself by hand ... go for it, dude.