Disbanding removes comrades from the game

[AgentTate]

Disbanding removed a character from the game in the original Wasteland. Permanently. I'd like to be able to send them back to my camp, or base, or wherever my team is staged at. If keeping them around requires a salary, I'll reevaluate how bad I need them, but I'd like to know they haven't disappeared into the wastes.

I invested hours of play time with the likes of Ace and Christina, but when it came down to it, I'd have to drop them for Metal Maniac and Mad Dog Fargo because... they're better. Never to hear from Ace or Christina again...

I want to see them continue to have an impact on the world around them whether they're with my Ranger team or I've told them to fuck off. If there's base management as it has been alluded to, every extra hired character will have further value outside the extra gun in the party.

I made a brief search for this, and didn't find any mention of it, so if it was mentioned elsewhere, I apologize. Anyone have thoughts on this?

[Mandemon]

I'm all for this. Maybe you could instead send them just to chill in the Base Camp and slowly train themselves.

[BubbaBrown]

It would be very nice for party members to go back where you found them, or at least go to the nearest bit of civilization, by default. There always seems to be those situations when you either you need to grab a bunch of tougher party members or you want to keep the rookies at base when your are about to go on a risky mission. There's a certain point when the less experienced and underequiped can become far greater a liability than asset. I'm all for leading a squad of green recruits to stomp some raiders, but not so much on trying to take out the central raider encampment. The bold may dig graves for their enemies, but the stupid put themselves in those graves.

[Itsatrap]

Oh, and because this is only a problem with persistent NPCs, I hate having to do excessive inventory juggling (e.g. trading equipment around) whenever I want to reorganize my party. It's not a deal-breaker, but it certainly is irritating.

[Woolfe]

I agree....
I'd like to go a little further. Not only could they "return to your base" or whatever, make it so that they can have an effect on the game as well. Both Positive and Negative. Perhaps one of your "allies" tries to take over the base. Or when they leave they get shitty and join the other side. Or maybe they just go off and find a village and settle down.

Lots of cool possibilities.

A caveat tho. If you dump someone in the middle of a battlefield, there should be a good solid chance that they don't make it back alive.

[ggnomely]

I agree....
I'd like to go a little further. Not only could they "return to your base" or whatever, make it so that they can have an effect on the game as well. Both Positive and Negative. Perhaps one of your "allies" tries to take over the base. Or when they leave they get shitty and join the other side. Or maybe they just go off and find a village and settle down.

Lots of cool possibilities.

A caveat tho. If you dump someone in the middle of a battlefield, there should be a good solid chance that they don't make it back alive.

No. No. No. No. No!

Oh, god, the micromanagement. That would be horrible. In the middle of a campaign, when all of a sudden "DICK NPC IS THROWING A COUP GET BACK TO BASE" Its spore all over again.
There should be no threat of a coup. By the end of the game you should have enough guys for a elite platoon, but most of them would be pretty loyal I'd imagine, so no coup would pick up steam.

As for dying in a battlefield, besides preventing players from Party switching during combat, there should be no dying outside your control. EVER!

[Lucius]

I know if a party member dies, I am more likely to carry on and not reload if I can pick up a replacement easily. If it's as easy as returning to base and pick up one of my old crew members who's just been hangin his hat, that's great. So yes to no vanishing disbanded NPCs.

[Woolfe]

I agree....
I'd like to go a little further. Not only could they "return to your base" or whatever, make it so that they can have an effect on the game as well. Both Positive and Negative. Perhaps one of your "allies" tries to take over the base. Or when they leave they get shitty and join the other side. Or maybe they just go off and find a village and settle down.

Lots of cool possibilities.

A caveat tho. If you dump someone in the middle of a battlefield, there should be a good solid chance that they don't make it back alive.

No. No. No. No. No!

Oh, god, the micromanagement. That would be horrible. In the middle of a campaign, when all of a sudden "DICK NPC IS THROWING A COUP GET BACK TO BASE" Its spore all over again.
There should be no threat of a coup. By the end of the game you should have enough guys for a elite platoon, but most of them would be pretty loyal I'd imagine, so no coup would pick up steam.

As for dying in a battlefield, besides preventing players from Party switching during combat, there should be no dying outside your control. EVER!

Riiiight....

Ok who said anything about micromanagement. Once you drop player from party, you no longer should have any direct control over that player.

Brian has already stated you will have annoying npc's who may do things like steal, and waste ammo etc. This would just be an extension of that. Whether it is a coup, or the guy just sucks up and gets promoted higher than you into a position of command. Either or, they then start ordering you to do things, such that you start spending as little time at "base" as possible.
This also includes them dying. If you let them go, they are out of your control, they SHOULD have an effect on the rest of the world if they want. Maybe you dumped a player for theft. He then goes and tells the Guardians that you are about to attack one of their facilities, they kill him, AND beef up security.
Or he goes to another town and starts spreading remours that your party are a bunch of thieving bastards etc.
Or they may be happy to serve in your growing force, willing to take on a role supporting you etc.

Its called Consequences, deal with them.

[AgentTate]

I agree....
I'd like to go a little further. Not only could they "return to your base" or whatever, make it so that they can have an effect on the game as well. Both Positive and Negative. Perhaps one of your "allies" tries to take over the base. Or when they leave they get shitty and join the other side. Or maybe they just go off and find a village and settle down.

Lots of cool possibilities.

A caveat tho. If you dump someone in the middle of a battlefield, there should be a good solid chance that they don't make it back alive.

No. No. No. No. No!

Oh, god, the micromanagement. That would be horrible. In the middle of a campaign, when all of a sudden "DICK NPC IS THROWING A COUP GET BACK TO BASE" Its spore all over again.
There should be no threat of a coup. By the end of the game you should have enough guys for a elite platoon, but most of them would be pretty loyal I'd imagine, so no coup would pick up steam.

As for dying in a battlefield, besides preventing players from Party switching during combat, there should be no dying outside your control. EVER!

Riiiight....

Ok who said anything about micromanagement. Once you drop player from party, you no longer should have any direct control over that player.

Brian has already stated you will have annoying npc's who may do things like steal, and waste ammo etc. This would just be an extension of that. Whether it is a coup, or the guy just sucks up and gets promoted higher than you into a position of command. Either or, they then start ordering you to do things, such that you start spending as little time at "base" as possible.
This also includes them dying. If you let them go, they are out of your control, they SHOULD have an effect on the rest of the world if they want. Maybe you dumped a player for theft. He then goes and tells the Guardians that you are about to attack one of their facilities, they kill him, AND beef up security.
Or he goes to another town and starts spreading remours that your party are a bunch of thieving bastards etc.
Or they may be happy to serve in your growing force, willing to take on a role supporting you etc.

Its called Consequences, deal with them.

Personally, I like the concept of keeping the NPC hires salaried -- in order to have them fulfill tasks outside the group, be it missions, improving themselves, fixing guns/armor, etc. OR disassociating them from the Desert Rangers all together --possibly making them an enemy or, if they left on good terms, a powerful ally in a town somewhere that can broker a deal between the Desert Rangers and the town. If you cut someone on good terms, it would be nice to have a possible chance to rehire some. This doesn't have to be dealt with in a micro-managerial sense either. You could simply disassociate through dialogue options and let the NPC's personality decide how to react:

DR: "Hey Slug."

Slug: "Hey, [DR]."

DR: "We really appreciate all you've done for us, but we can't afford to keep you around anymore. You're free to stick around, but we can't pay you. We know you joined us because you're hard-up on cash, so we understand if you've got better places to go."

Slug: "Aight, I'll ed back to Dust Well. You err need summin', you gimme a holler."

DR: "Thanks, we'll keep that in mind."

--OR--

DR: "Slug."

Slug: "Wut."

DR: "Your weak ass is dragging us down. You've served your time as a pack-mule and you've been a waste of rations. How bout you go fuck off now?"

Slug: "I ain't n'err been so diserrspect'd in mah live. I ain't gonna ferget this niethur. You'll be seen me round... it'll be th'last yew see, too... fuckers."

DR: "Uh-huh... we'll keep an eye out for you. You go fuck off now..."

[ggnomely]

I agree....
I'd like to go a little further. Not only could they "return to your base" or whatever, make it so that they can have an effect on the game as well. Both Positive and Negative. Perhaps one of your "allies" tries to take over the base. Or when they leave they get shitty and join the other side. Or maybe they just go off and find a village and settle down.

Lots of cool possibilities.

A caveat tho. If you dump someone in the middle of a battlefield, there should be a good solid chance that they don't make it back alive.

No. No. No. No. No!

Oh, god, the micromanagement. That would be horrible. In the middle of a campaign, when all of a sudden "DICK NPC IS THROWING A COUP GET BACK TO BASE" Its spore all over again.
There should be no threat of a coup. By the end of the game you should have enough guys for a elite platoon, but most of them would be pretty loyal I'd imagine, so no coup would pick up steam.

As for dying in a battlefield, besides preventing players from Party switching during combat, there should be no dying outside your control. EVER!

Riiiight....

Ok who said anything about micromanagement. Once you drop player from party, you no longer should have any direct control over that player.

Brian has already stated you will have annoying npc's who may do things like steal, and waste ammo etc. This would just be an extension of that. Whether it is a coup, or the guy just sucks up and gets promoted higher than you into a position of command. Either or, they then start ordering you to do things, such that you start spending as little time at "base" as possible.
This also includes them dying. If you let them go, they are out of your control, they SHOULD have an effect on the rest of the world if they want. Maybe you dumped a player for theft. He then goes and tells the Guardians that you are about to attack one of their facilities, they kill him, AND beef up security.
Or he goes to another town and starts spreading remours that your party are a bunch of thieving bastards etc.
Or they may be happy to serve in your growing force, willing to take on a role supporting you etc.

Its called Consequences, deal with them.

But see, with Brian's Ideas, its only when the particular NPC is in your party. Don't like the dude stealing from you? Fire his ass.

But with what your suggesting, its completely out of your control. I like to have some concrete things like "If I send a party member back to base he will make it" Otherwise it just becomes a paranoia fest, hoping you don't roll that 1.

Now, would it be cool if in say, the guardians stronghold you disband an NPC and he says something along the lines of "How the hell do I get back from here? Looks like your stuck with me." Yeah I think so.

You've convinced me though on the effect out of party thing. Having a Dick NPC spread nasty rumors about you would be very cool.

[Woolfe]

<SNIP>
Its called Consequences, deal with them.

Personally, I like the concept of keeping the NPC hires salaried -- in order to have them fulfill tasks outside the group, be it missions, improving themselves, fixing guns/armor, etc. OR disassociating them from the Desert Rangers all together --possibly making them an enemy or, if they left on good terms, a powerful ally in a town somewhere that can broker a deal between the Desert Rangers and the town. If you cut someone on good terms, it would be nice to have a possible chance to rehire some. This doesn't have to be dealt with an a micro-managerial sense either. You could simply disassociate through dialogue options and let the NPC's personality decide how to react:

DR: "Hey Slug."

Slug: "Hey, [DR]."

DR: "We really appreciate all you've done for us, but we can't afford to keep you around anymore. You're free to stick around, but we can't pay you. We know you joined us because you're hard-up on cash, so we understand if you've got better places to go."

Slug: "Aight, I'll ed back to Dust Well. You err need summin', you gimme a holler."

DR: "Thanks, we'll keep that in mind."

--OR--

DR: "Slug."

Slug: "Wut."

DR: "Your weak ass is dragging us down. You've served your time as a pack-mule and you've been a waste of rations. How bout you go fuck off now?"

Slug: "I ain't n'err been so diserrspect'd in mah live. I ain't gonna ferget this niethur. You'll be seen me round... it'll be th'last yew see, too... fuckers."

DR: "Uh-huh... we'll keep an eye out for you. You go fuck off now..."

Exactly..... This is the sort of thing I was thinking.

But see, with Brian's Ideas, its only when the particular NPC is in your party. Don't like the dude stealing from you? Fire his ass.

But with what your suggesting, its completely out of your control. I like to have some concrete things like "If I send a party member back to base he will make it" Otherwise it just becomes a paranoia fest, hoping you don't roll that 1.

Nothing is certain, unless you actually take that person back to base yourself. As soon as they leave your direct control, anything could happen.

Now, would it be cool if in say, the guardians stronghold you disband an NPC and he says something along the lines of "How the hell do I get back from here? Looks like your stuck with me." Yeah I think so.

You've convinced me though on the effect out of party thing. Having a Dick NPC spread nasty rumors about you would be very cool.

Heh .... Yeah my theory is similar to AgentTate's above.
You have an NPC, you can fire them outright and get rid of them. So now they are no longer involved with you at all, other than being somebody you used to know. Depending on how you split up you get a good or bad reaction from them.

But also, you have an NPC, and there is a role going at the Ranger base that the NPC would suit, so you offer it to them.
This should restrict your access to the NPC in some way, but still leave them available if they are free.

[Zombra]

I think this is something that will benefit from modern game resources. Wasteland NPCs just disappeared because it was probably more trouble than it was worth to build a system for keeping them around. In W2, they'll still exist, I'm sure of it.

But they certainly shouldn't be protected by "Plot Armor" just because the Rangers aren't around to see them die. If they disband in a minefield, they might not make it back home. Life is cheap in the original game; it should be cheap here too.

[AgentTate]

Didn't hurt anyone to ask for it.

[Zombra]

Hey, you ask for thoughts, you get 'em

[Drool]

I kind of liked how New Vegas handled it. You could send them back to their home or, if you had it, you could send them back to the Lucky 38 which was your base of operations. I found it handy when you were managing several companions to be able to have them all in one place when you needed to swap them around.

And while I can see why you'd want to avoid "plot armor", I think it's mainly done because it's easier that way. Instead of having to track the companion all the way back, roll for random encounters, resolve combat, etc all for events you aren't witnessing, the game just teleports them back. Personally, I'm willing to accept that. Unless you disband them mid-battle, of course.

[paultakeda]

I kind of liked how New Vegas handled it. You could send them back to their home or, if you had it, you could send them back to the Lucky 38 which was your base of operations. I found it handy when you were managing several companions to be able to have them all in one place when you needed to swap them around.

And while I can see why you'd want to avoid "plot armor", I think it's mainly done because it's easier that way. Instead of having to track the companion all the way back, roll for random encounters, resolve combat, etc all for events you aren't witnessing, the game just teleports them back. Personally, I'm willing to accept that. Unless you disband them mid-battle, of course.

They have a radio. Perhaps you disband and they go their own way, perhaps you suggest they go do something, but ultimately, NPCs do what they want and aren't rangers (well, okay, maybe some of the NPCs are rangers, but once they disband they're not under your orders). When you want them back, radio in and they'll either drop the NPC off at the California base with an ETA or they radio and say he'll be over at Dorita's Cantina in Palm Springs in a couple of days to meet up.

Or they'll radio in and say, sorry, that dude bit it in Quartz a week ago arguing over a bill at Scott's.

[AgentTate]

Hey, you ask for thoughts, you get 'em

And I appreciate everyone of them.

[Luckmann]

Definitely a must. I always hated how many of the most lauded CRPGs didn't really make use of a "home base" properly. Even in games with slight management aspects, such as Baldur's Gate II (getting your "Stronghold") or Neverwinter Nights 2 (Crossroad Keep), there were little to no impact when it came to managing a group of people - or at least not if those people were also potential party members.

We don't know how big of a thing the establishment of a Ranger Base will be. But either way, once you've recruited someone (or created someone) you should have at least a bit of a say in what they do or what happens to them when there is no room for them in the active team. Whether it's releasing them and having them move to the Ranger Base, forever free from your control, or just asking them to man the radio station.

[Sub-Human]

I agree. Perhaps after a while (say, a month in-game), if you come back they're already something different - a bum, or a local mob (all depending on their state when you recruited them - i.e. one wanted to be a rich merchant, the other came from the streets as a petty gangster).

Would be cool like that, you know, making the game more dynamic.

[Hertzila]

I think the game should also make removing NPCs from your team/active duty and actual discharging/firing seperate. If you just need to get some space for another NPC, ask them to either go back to the NRC and some odd jobs there or do some independent field work for the Rangers (or just wait around a certain place). They could still be ordered around by the radio, so getting them back to your squad or doing some work on their own would be your choice, as they keep working for you.
If you'd want to get rid of them, whether because you don't think they're worth keeping around, they are a detriment or because you just don't have the resources to keep them around for the moment (if they demand a salary), you could discharge them proper. They'd no longer be obliged to do anything to you, they'd lose their own radio so contact would become much more limited and they'd treat you as they see fit (instead of being inclined to consider you their boss/leader), depending on how you treated them and such. Maybe they still keep helping the Rangers and/or join the civilian populace of NRC or they'll join the next raider gang they see. Time would tell.