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Engine

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Re: Engine

Postby Anarkopsykotik » March 18th, 2012, 3:32 pm

Hey, I joked about CryEngine earlier, but the matter was interesting me, so I started to look up on google the prices for differents engines. And actually, they do have offers for indies.

CryENGINE 3 Independent Developers Platform
We want you to make games with CryENGINE 3 that people will want to play. We hope that your work will lead to a product you can commercialise. If this is the case, before you can sell your work or your game, you must seek a development license for CryENGINE 3. We’ll offer a royalty-only license model for Independent Developers, where Crytek require only 20% of the developer’s revenues from the commercial launch of their game.

CryENGINE 3 for Indy Studios & Downloadable Games
Crytek has attractive options for smaller games built with CryENGINE 3, with shorter development timescales. If you want to move your game onto platforms other than PC, or you need access to CryENGINE 3 source code, please contact Crytek to find out more about our licensing for Independent Studios.

http://mycryengine.com/index.php?conid=43

That doesn't mean it would be the ultimate solution, but maybe some other good engines out there have similar offers, don't you think? (I am an ignorant on that matter though, are there many engines availables?)
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 3:43 pm

Anarkopsykotik wrote:That doesn't mean it would be the ultimate solution, but maybe some other good engines out there have similar offers, don't you think? (I am an ignorant on that matter though, are there many engines availables?)

No, its not solution.
CryEngine doesn't have OpenGL renderer and doesn't have any unix-like systems support.

For example Unreal Engine have OpenGL 3 and Mac support (and sure non published linux support).
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Re: Engine

Postby geezer » March 18th, 2012, 3:48 pm

It is interesting that it's actually cheaper than the unreal engine although still prohibitively expensive.
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Re: Engine

Postby infestor » March 18th, 2012, 4:39 pm

can someone please tell me why id tech 4 is not worth taking into consideration? :shock: it is licensed under GPL and uses openGL.
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Re: Engine

Postby cdoublejj » March 18th, 2012, 4:41 pm

SXX wrote:
Anarkopsykotik wrote:That doesn't mean it would be the ultimate solution, but maybe some other good engines out there have similar offers, don't you think? (I am an ignorant on that matter though, are there many engines availables?)

No, its not solution.
CryEngine doesn't have OpenGL renderer and doesn't have any unix-like systems support.

For example Unreal Engine have OpenGL 3 and Mac support (and sure non published linux support).



HEY! I was just tlaking about the unreal engine a few pages back they have deal where it is royalty free if you don't make any sales ans so many percent of sales .... i ...think if the game is sucesfull .

infestor wrote:can someone please tell me why id tech 4 is not worth taking into consideration? :shock: it is licensed under GPL and uses openGL.


I don't know, i think that is a good question.
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Re: Engine

Postby PiPboy » March 18th, 2012, 4:45 pm

I don't know if ID tech would even allow turn based combat.
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Re: Engine

Postby Korrvin » March 18th, 2012, 4:50 pm

I don't know about you guys/gals, but I'd be ready to pay around 200 000$ for a right engine if that means I can work on a game strait away. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis and time is of the essence here.

The most important thing at this moment (programming-wise) is to set up the game world as soon as possible and allow artists, scripters and others to work on it. So, deciding what engine it should be, is not only important - it's the first "technical" decision and should be done promptly. Choosing an engine focus whole effort of designing the game in a more defined direction and definitely speed up the whole process, leaving time for adding more content, scripting, debugging and all those things that are always left with too short time-frame to do it properly.

At this point, having trust in inxile's reasoning, I would accept any engine that they choose. But my point is - they should choose it without delay. I know how strange it sounds at this moment, but the time is running out already.

p.s that price up there is arbitrary and just showing order of magnitude that I would be willing to pay if that means full "Go!" for artists, programmers and others. Eh, and yes, existence of tools is important - I know how easy things can go astray without proper tools.
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Re: Engine

Postby PiPboy » March 18th, 2012, 4:58 pm

In my opinion I think wasteland is going through a serious uphill battle. Right now its facing everist.
It has no publisher backing, its fan base is very Niche.

If you ask 100 people about wasteland how many people will know?
If you ask 100 people about the ORIGINAL fallout series how many people will know?

I don't see a huge market as compared to games like ME3 \ Fallout [Bethesda] \ Diablo 3 [Ironically all 3]

Wasteland is going to have to fight for fans, [which ironically have to fight for survival.]
Right now the funds are very limited and the time frame is short [1 1/2 years] If the game has bugs or issues its dead in the water and their probably never be anymore similar series after it, an it will be death to a great Genre. :cry:

...Hmm

Its facing a 100 Raiders, with a 100 bullets, a single miss could mean death. :ugeek:
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Re: Engine

Postby infestor » March 18th, 2012, 5:03 pm

PiPboy wrote:I don't know if ID tech would even allow turn based combat.


that's game mechanics and nothing to do with a graphics engine afaik. in theory id tech 4 (or 3) seems quite perfect. here is my 2 cents:

-GPL. pros: no need to pay a license fee. cons: you have to release your modified engine under the same of compatible free license. but only the modified engine mind you. you can still have the artwork and the rest proprietary.
-openGL. pros: cross platform (duh) cons: openGL might be an asshole to deal with (see here) if the team is unfamiliar with it.

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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 5:14 pm

infestor wrote:can someone please tell me why id tech 4 is not worth taking into consideration? :shock: it is licensed under GPL and uses openGL.

I said its 2 time before here.
GPLv3 not compatible with Steam because its distribution system have DRM options.
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 5:17 pm

cdoublejj wrote:HEY! I was just tlaking about the unreal engine a few pages back they have deal where it is royalty free if you don't make any sales ans so many percent of sales .... i ...think if the game is sucesfull.

If developers need to choose between CryEngine and Unreal Engine they will choose UE, because:
1 - They already work with this engine.
2 - Its already work on Mac OS X.
3 - Its possible to ask Epic about linux patches because Epic have them.

Its doesn't make UE cheaper for using.
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 5:19 pm

infestor wrote:-openGL. pros: cross platform (duh) cons: openGL might be an asshole to deal with (see here) if the team is unfamiliar with it.

They have no choice here. They definitely will have OpenGL as default renderer because of Mac/Linux.
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Re: Engine

Postby infestor » March 18th, 2012, 5:38 pm

SXX wrote:
infestor wrote:can someone please tell me why id tech 4 is not worth taking into consideration? :shock: it is licensed under GPL and uses openGL.

I said its 2 time before here.
GPLv3 not compatible with Steam because its distribution system have DRM options.


that may be the case but it's like shooting birds with cannon, imho. moreover steam doesn't even run on linux natively. if many backers really love steam that much, so be it; sacrifice that engine. :cry:
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Re: Engine

Postby geezer » March 18th, 2012, 5:39 pm

For those of you who would like to learn more about the GPL license:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

Still seems a bit confusing to me. Even if inXile weren't planning to distribute with Steam, I'm not sure they would want to have to make the source code for the game available. They don't have to release the art assets and those are certainly an integral part of the game, but I still don't think they are going to want to do that. I would love it if they did though.

As far as DRM goes what about this:
Does GPLv3 prohibit DRM? (#DRMProhibited)

It does not; you can use code released under GPLv3 to develop any kind of DRM technology you like. However, if you do this, section 3 says that the system will not count as an effective technological “protection” measure, which means that if someone breaks the DRM, he will be free to distribute his software too, unhindered by the DMCA and similar laws.

As usual, the GNU GPL does not restrict what people do in software, it just stops them from restricting others.


However, the faq also makes it clear that Wasteland 2 would be considered a "derivative work" of ID Tech 4 and thus Wasteland 2 would also have to be distributed under a GPL v3 license. This means they definitely would have to make all of the game freely available. A competitor couldn't use it to make a game that was not itself free however. So I don't immediately see a problem there.

Needless to say having the entire source code for the game available would be a godsend to modders. The entire game could be changed in significant ways.
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 5:44 pm

infestor wrote:that may be the case but it's like shooting birds with cannon, imho. moreover steam doesn't even run on linux natively. if many backers really love steam that much, so be it; sacrifice that engine. :cry:

Backers can use Desura which compatible with GPLv3.
But its really unfair to ask developers reject big market like Steam just for GPL.
If they need enough profit they will make more good RPG games, and that is more important than code license :D
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 5:53 pm

geezer wrote:So I don't immediately see a problem there.

Steam games require to have Steam installed to run games, but if I understand games correctly problem in licensing mostly.
I will be glad if somebody fix me if I wrong.
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Re: Engine

Postby infestor » March 18th, 2012, 5:58 pm

SXX wrote:
infestor wrote:that may be the case but it's like shooting birds with cannon, imho. moreover steam doesn't even run on linux natively. if many backers really love steam that much, so be it; sacrifice that engine. :cry:

Backers can use Desura which compatible with GPLv3.
But its really unfair to ask developers reject big market like Steam just for GPL.
If they need enough profit they will make more good RPG games, and that is more important than code license :D


yeah but on the other hand they have to spend god-knows-how-much for a licensed engine. i've seen ½ mil. $ somewhere on this forum. yes, the ball is on the inXile's court on this one—totally.
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Re: Engine

Postby Bryce777 » March 18th, 2012, 5:58 pm

The irony is that GPL is practically a form of DRM. Once you get it in you can never get it out.

Also, while it can be free I am almost certain that id tech 4 is *not* free, just like quake 3 release wasn't.
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 6:15 pm

infestor wrote:yeah but on the other hand they have to spend god-knows-how-much for a licensed engine. i've seen ½ mil. $ somewhere on this forum. yes, the ball is on the inXile's court on this one—totally.

I sure there will be a sponsor who give engine just for advertising. :)
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Re: Engine

Postby SXX » March 18th, 2012, 6:17 pm

Bryce777 wrote:The irony is that GPL is practically a form of DRM. Once you get it in you can never get it out.

GPL protect freedom of code, not freedom of programmer.

As well its doesn't change anything for code owner, he still can license his own code under thousands of different licenses.
But nobody allowed to "steal" code freedom.
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