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[malthaussen]

No apoligy necessary, Zombra. Forum threads are an organic thing. I'm pleased I got the ball rolling on an interesting subject. I'm more accustomed to my thoughts falling "dead-born from the Press."

And you really should finish JA2 some time. The ending sequence is very rewarding.

-- Mal

[Drool]

* Should the PCs in the game field be visually customizable? If so, how much? Body size? Haircuts? Skin tone? Mustaches? Clothes? How much should gear "overwrite" custom PC visuals?

Again, look at the update where they talked about the engine:

Given the top down POV and camera height required to show a party of characters and enemies, it would be overkill to spend too much of our resources on detailed character models and all the cutting-edge rendering and animation techniques associated with that level of detail.

The game-world characters probably won't have oodles of detail. However, there will also be portraits, and there might be paper dolls on the character sheet. Hopefully, we'll get some customizability (like color patterns), but I don't expect too much beyond that.

[Zombra]

Good info! Thanks, Drool.

[ButchinMelancholy]

I personally don't share that concern.

My point of view is that when it comes to sole contemplation regarding my character(s), it occurs when I am innocently strolling in the world or only going social (in "safe" areas), but it doesn't fit when I am focused on something else. It gives me a nice break which diversifies the experience but I also appreciate the nice warrior look of my armored character(s). This would feel odd to me, unless the game is obviously meant to be stylized this way, to wear some fashion outfit during a combat or other situation that makes it inappropriate or frivolous. That's the way I feel immersion.
Also, in an isometric kind of game it represents a smaller share since our characters are less detailed (it relies more on imagination), and for example in Fallout, they basically are standard anyway, so a very cool looking armor rather adds to the style of my character in my opinion. But as it has been said, we are going to have portraits on the other hand, so this "issue" will not really come out I think.

[zimluura]

I've always been a huge fan of ingame avatar customization. So I hope there are tons of different options in wl2. making a really powerful and detailed system for dressing up humans uniquely also means that all human npcs you fight get more unique avatars.

I'd even like to see it so extensive as to have slots for:
pants,
shirt,
jacket/duster,
shoes/boots,
gloves,
hat,
mask(gasmask/goggles),
outer_armor,
backpack.

That way we could fight (or even play) mad max style villains with football pads and hockey masks. I'm sure what level they decide to take it to will make for a good game; but i feel like adding a robust customization system reaps little benefits all over the game and not just for the heroes.

[Zombra]

Yeah. Based on Drool's info, we probably won't see that much customization on the tactical field, but paper dolls in the inventory screen would be nice.

[Risingsun]

I'm all for highly customizable Paper Dolls in the inventory and stats screen.

In regards to the avatars on the battlefield, it could end up like jagged alliance: Back in Action, where the models aren't highly detailed but still very customizable. A good middle ground for the high up isometric perspective.

[Zombra]

Yeah. Back in Action does a lot of things wrong, but they hit the nail with game field avatars. No idea whether Unity can achieve this or not.

[Drool]

And it's always possible that we'll get that level. I mean, they were kind of vague about just how much detail we'll get.

On the other hand, we might get a screen shot soon, so that might answer these questions!

[Zombra]

We might get a screen shot soon, so that might answer these questions!

!!!!

[The Livid One]

I just hate when i play an RPG, create a whole backstory for the members of my party, their personalities, traits, talents etc. and they are all these colorful distinct unique people each with their own quirks, flaws and minds and then all of the sudden BAAAM, it's mid-game and they have all turned into a garrison of cloned monochrome Transformers. Really hate that. Something like a power armors or a gatling lasers should have advantages, even very big ones, but it should not mean that the game is impossible to be played effectively otherwise.

[ButchinMelancholy]

I mean, they were kind of vague about just how much detail we'll get.

It recalls me that Tweet from Brian Fargo:
"fear not. Our game will look detailed and rich."

We might get a screen shot soon, so that might answer these questions!

!!!!

Here too, I have seen Brian Fargo tweeting (5 days ago) that they were "working with getting an in game screen shot out but I haven't been happy with it yet to solicit feedback. Soon...".

[Zombra]

I mean, they were kind of vague about just how much detail we'll get.

It recalls me that Tweet from Brian Fargo:
"fear not. Our game will look detailed and rich."

Hmm ... That's nice, but which phrase have you heard more often? "Detailed, rich environments" or "detailed, rich character models"?
A lot of games put tons of focus on environmental details but leave the characters looking like shit. Just sayin'.
inXile, if you're reading this, put me down as someone who cares about a thousand times more about character graphics than environmental ones. Thanks!

[Canageek]

Sorry, I'm not seeing why armour can't be customizable. A can of spraypaint, some airbrushing, and you have a baddass dragon on it. Some more work and an angel and a demon fighting over a lake of fire. Heck, you could even allow the user to load their own artwork into the game as decals on the armour. I'm thinking these things should be as customizable as a hippy van, but with the addition of hot, flaming death.

[ForeshadowingPeanuts]

I also fear my party of Rangers turning into faceless Space Marines...

Make the suits slightly different colors, put some chains on one, let me put decals on them, I don't care how you do it. I have to know who each character is at a glance. No, a color-coded UI ring around their feet doesn't count.

On a related note, I do hope there are different body types than just "generic man" and "generic woman". Gorilla type guy, ethereal waif, beanpole, opera singer, you know what I mean.

I agree with all of this.

In addition, in response to those who feel that wearing the "best" gear (i.e. Power Armor) should be required for late-game combat, I agree to the extent that if you want to have a character who can charge in, guns blazing, down a fire lane soaking damage, then they should "have" to wear Power Armor. But, if you want to have a sneaky designated marksman hiding out on a tower picking off bionic soldiers through chinks in their own Power Armor with a high-powered sniper rifle, Power Armor shouldn't just be unnecessary, it should also be prohibitive.

In addition, if your other two party members want to be reasonable, regular people, sticking to cover, and using mobility and suppression to control a dynamic battleground, I see no reason why they couldn't wear some Combat Armor hidden in a stylish duster (e.g. Fallout: New Vegas) and maintain their own individuality.

Effectively, different armor and weapon combos should be effective at endgame, not just one or two players' favorite of "Turbo-Plasma Cannon and Power Armor."

But, for those who want their team of four to stand out in the middle of an empty field, dakka-ing away at a squad of other dudes who are similarly standing out in the open (the way Fallout combat largely worked), then yes, Power Armor should be a given necessity, and in that case, should be customizable as in the quote above.

[Canageek]

What if we *want* to create a team of walking tanks, despite there being other options? Why should the existence of other options remove the ability of me to add on a fighter-nosecone sharksteeth decal to my armour?

[Gizmo]

What if we *want* to create a team of walking tanks, despite there being other options? Why should the existence of other options remove the ability of me to add on a fighter-nosecone sharksteeth decal to my armour?

I'm sure that it's doable in a mod, but why should that be an official feature of the game when the game is designed to allow mods?

[Zombra]

What if we *want* to create a team of walking tanks, despite there being other options? Why should the existence of other options remove the ability of me to add on a fighter-nosecone sharksteeth decal to my armour?

It absolutely shouldn't, but dev resources are limited. If it's a choice between customizable characters (height, body type, hair color) and customizable armor, I'll go with characters every time.

Of course it would be fantastic if we had both!

[Notgeekgirl]

I agree those ones who say in-game avatar should not be depicted with too many details. That's
a lot of work and I would totally satified with a good selection of portraits and a paperdoll; and
this latter should reflect on body size, clothes worn etc. An option to choose a few haircut, hair
and skin tone for the paperdoll would be a big plus. Of course, if in-game avatars show all these
changes, I will not protest But shall we not insatiable.

[SilverSam]

I agree those ones who say in-game avatar should not be depicted with too many details. That's
a lot of work and I would totally satified with a good selection of portraits and a paperdoll; and
this latter should reflect on body size, clothes worn etc. An option to choose a few haircut, hair
and skin tone for the paperdoll would be a big plus. Of course, if in-game avatars show all these
changes, I will not protest But shall we not insatiable.

Totally agree with that. I don't spend too much time in customizating my character, only the hairstyle and some other features like scars, beard and things like that. The avatars should portray in a good (or acceptable) way the character we made