valuable loot not connected to missions

[snakeoil]

in almost all rpgs special weapons or other items of highest value are always connected to missions, as a reward for a solved task. you almost never get a reward for one of the most beloved part of rpgs, looting the hell out of any possible container. i would love to find a hidden treasure of real gameplay value (something unique) just under some rock somewhere in the desert where only explorers travel by. just hide some unique items of great or funny use at some random spot/container on the map so explorers will finally get rewarded. just one or two unique items, but very useful ones.

i know there are many others that cant pass a container without looking inside...

[Sub-Human]

Wouldn't that break the balance of the game? And who the hell puts the Golden Sword of Doom under a rock out in the desert?

[snakeoil]

it wont break the balance if its the right item.

obviously some paranoid radiated psycho scientist invented a replicator and hid it under a rock in the middle of the desert so the device wouldnt be stolen from alien mindbenders on a star trek. any crazy inhabitant of the wasteland would hide his/her most precious goods at some unexpected place in the nowhere.

[dimaniac]

i agree with op there should be some special loot/additional quests for people that like to explore every corner on the map

[Elandryl]

Either that "super loot" is always found under the exact same rock, or it's just some sort of "super-lucky loot" that you might find in a random place different in every play, right?

Two problems with that.

In the first case, a.k.a. "The super loot under the same rock every time", every player who found it at least once (or read a strategic guide telling where the loot was) will go get it again with each new team he creates. Thats the "Ankheg plate armor" syndrom of Baldur's Gate: once you know where the surper bonus is, that'll be the first thing you'll go grab with your team, hence an easier game.

In the second case, a.k.a. "Totally random loot", there will always be a (un)luncky fellow to found it under the very first rock of the game, automaticaly becoming very powerful after 10 minutes of game time. Thus destroying his game experience.

So, even if I like the idea of the "super loot hidden in a secret cactus", perhaps we should think about those two problems.

[happy04]

secret loot stashes are always a fantastic thing to run across. almost every rpg has loot laid somewhere that can break the game if you know about it already... but you haven't beaten wasteland 2 yet, so how would you know how to cheese through the game?

[Sub-Human]

...almost every rpg has loot laid somewhere that can break the game if you know about it already..,

A better option would be to post hostile NPCs which are very hard to beat and various high skill/attribute checks, such as rocks can fall down and SERiously hurt your Ranger if you don't notice with perception.

[CaptainPatch]

"The middle of nowhere" may not have been the "middle of nowhere" to the person doing the stashing. For example, suppose that there had been a pre-war survivalist that set up a bunker "in the middle of nowhere", figuring that would be the safest place to be when the bombs would be dropping. Or maybe it was the cache he was setting up just prior to building the bunker. Everything nicely camouflaged so no one was likely to stumble across it while he was out, gathering more supplies -- and got killed in a traffic accident.

Good stuff. Middle of nowhere. Possible.

[snakeoil]

but see sub, thats how its always done, you fight an enemy, you get loot. but there are many people who really explore every container possible and every last corner of the map, it wont hurt no one to give them something in return. no game does it so why not try? i aint talking about 10 unique items, just one or two. hidden at some random place so no guide can tell you where they are to find. no ongoing mission or story connected to it.
people who are used to guides will always find a way to break any game,so this is hardly ya argument. also it doesnt necessarily has to be a super-weapon or a limitless purse, it could also be some device of any nature that will be super duper cool to run around with in wasteland 2. also the randomness may not include the starting area.

[Drool]

but there are many people who really explore every container possible and every last corner of the map, it wont hurt no one to give them something in return.

I can't say that I've ever done in depth exploration for a reward. I do it because I like exploring the game world. If they want to toss in a randomly located unique item, that's fine, but its inclusion would probably bother obsessive collectors far more than it would reward explorers.

[snakeoil]

i wouldnt mind bothering obsessive collectors, HAHAHA!

[Lucius]

but see sub, thats how its always done, you fight an enemy, you get loot. but there are many people who really explore every container possible and every last corner of the map

When you are exploring, don't you say "Ooo, a cave lets see what's inside!" Kill everything inside and walk out with $122 more then you started with and say "what a waste!"

I would like, if there are locations not tied to any questlines, they should contain a reward suitable for the level of the content in the location.

[D Bishop]

Glad someone brought this up. Looting really has been quite boring in most modern rpg's because the 'regular' loot you get from enemies and containers just isn't powerful or fun enough to even make looting worth the trouble. Then there are games like Skyrim that don't actually have any cool loot at all... anywhere, ever.

I'm actually playing a game called Dark Souls (ps3) at the moment - it's a very challenging action rpg that has tons of hidden loot (hard to get to) and tons of random 'chance' drops from enemies (you just have to get lucky to ever get those) and running into all that loot all the time just makes the whole experience that much more exciting. Of course WL2 represents a different genre and I don't think random drops would work that well in wasteland, but I sure as hell would welcome some non-mission-related hidden loot. Not too much of it, just enough to keep things interesting. A unique named pistol there, a vial of highly experimental military drugs there...

Point is, at least some of these items should be found in seemingly random and isolated locations instead of having them as mission rewards etc.

[CaptainPatch]

Some players are "sightseers": they go everywhere just to see EVERYTHING there was to see. Then there are the compulsive racers, trying to see just how quickly they can beat the game. Then there are compulsive kleptomaniacs that grab EVERYTHING grab-able just because. I'm in that last category, as well as the first. If _any_ object has value somewhere, I want to scoop it up. Even empty soda bottles that sell for one coin-equivalent contribute to an amount where you can purchase the Good Stuff. (My favorite recurring PC is named "Bissell Hoover". )

Anyone whose play style is outside of the other styles sees content that caters to those other play styles as being "a waste"; programming that could have been used to provide more content for what they want. But, the programmers need to provide something for everybody, to expand the game's appeal and customer base. Unfortunately, the total programming load inevitably leads to "Robbing from Peter to pay Paul". To put more content here, it means that there is going to be less content. Do you want to sacrifice some of your preferred content so others can get more of what they want? Didn't think so. The inevitable conclusion is that pretty much EVERYONE doesn't get as much content as they would like. Hopefully though, there will be enough preferred content to each category that everyone is satisfied.

[Svetlovska]

I suggested a semi-random special (not game-breaking) item stash idea months ago. To avoid the 'find it at the start of the game' thing it's surely easy enough to randomise it to areas of the game map the wrong side of some tough critturs / terrain etc, (maybe even with some hard to find safe(r) routes in), and if the dozen or so possible randomised locations the item might be at are scattered hither and yon across the map,(and 'empty' ones give little or no indication that they ever *do* contain the thing) there's little percentage in hiking to one after another just to be a game-breaker. Et voila, a little 'easter egg' treat for explorer obsessives without compromising big story arcs.

Incidentally, I also liked the somewhat related idea, sort-of adapted from the old Games Workshop 'Dracula' board game, of 'rumours', where you could seperately encounter 'pieces of a map'/an old crone with a story to tell/etc, hinting at a 'walker of the wastes' out there, somewhere, (one map/crone/etc gives an x co-ordinate, another a y), changing, not just from game to game, but *during* the game itself, the chance of 'rumour encounter' going up the closer you get (using a 'tracking' skill to further improve chances of rumour-control?) so you can hunt a moving target, with the eventual aim of encountering a legendary bad-ass with some cool kit. I always loved the end of The Maltese Falcon, the idea that the Kaspar Gutman and Joel Cairo (such excellent names!) characters would go on, after the film, still out there somewhere, in pursuit of rumours of a legendary prize. A kind of Grail quest... Just my two cents.

Kasper Gutman: Well, sir, what do you suggest? We stand here and shed tears and call each other names... or shall we go to Istanbul?
Joel Cairo: Are you going?
Kasper Gutman: Seventeen years I've wanted that little item and I've been trying to get it. If we must spend another year on the quest... well, sir, it will be an additional expenditure in time of only... five and fifteen seventeenths percent.

[asafe]

in almost all rpgs special weapons or other items of highest value are always connected to missions, as a reward for a solved task. you almost never get a reward for one of the most beloved part of rpgs, looting the hell out of any possible container. i would love to find a hidden treasure of real gameplay value (something unique) just under some rock somewhere in the desert where only explorers travel by. just hide some unique items of great or funny use at some random spot/container on the map so explorers will finally get rewarded. just one or two unique items, but very useful ones.

i know there are many others that cant pass a container without looking inside...

I'd like that but it should really be subtle and after some challenge and definitely not in every place you explore.
Might stumble on an un-looted part of a bunker or a previously ignored or hidden section of a cave or just discover a new mysterious place and after overcoming the dangers and challenges there get the epic loot!

I do love to explore every possible thing when I play

[mysterymovieguy]

but see sub, thats how its always done, you fight an enemy, you get loot. but there are many people who really explore every container possible and every last corner of the map

When you are exploring, don't you say "Ooo, a cave lets see what's inside!" Kill everything inside and walk out with $122 more then you started with and say "what a waste!"

I would like, if there are locations not tied to any questlines, they should contain a reward suitable for the level of the content in the location.

Diablo III. In a cave you can find... Enemies, Swords, Armor, People (possibly), and depending on your character tons of XP.

[Mutie_Later]

First off: Why does there have to be balance? What are you balancing? Who are you balancing?

I hate the word balance in a game. If Player A finds an alien ray gun under a rock, more power to him! Let him zap Player B to dust! Can't wait for it to become worthless when the power runs out! Then Players X and Y gun him down and fight over it! Then Player C comes along and wipes out the survivor of that and tada! New weapon!

It's all about having a dynamic game world. No quests. No puzzles. No instances. Just a world. Player-driven everything.

Oh, and when you're ready for vehicles, check out Dark-wind.com for 3D, turn-based vehicle (think Car Wars) combat.

[CaptainPatch]

First off: Why does there have to be balance? What are you balancing? Who are you balancing?

I hate the word balance in a game. If Player A finds an alien ray gun under a rock, more power to him! Let him zap Player B to dust! Can't wait for it to become worthless when the power runs out! Then Players X and Y gun him down and fight over it! Then Player C comes along and wipes out the survivor of that and tada! New weapon!

You're answering a broad question with just ONE specific example. Doesn't really address the broader subject.

"Game balance" usually gets dealt with by "leveling". The potency of characters, weapons, monsters, and opponents gets balanced, all along the progression of the game. When the PC is 5th level, the game throws approximately 5th-level opponents at him. At 10th level, he gets @10th-level opposition. The opposition may be in just ONE enemy of about the same level, or MANY of a significantly lower-level opponents. Confrontations should be challenging without being either unbeatable nor a mere cakewalk.

Gear and weapons contribute to the potency of the PC, and also help to determine just how powerful opponents will be. Bump up the PC's potency, opponents appear as being higher level and/or better equipped. Giving the PC a significantly powerful "lucky find" will either start to give the PC cakewalk encounters, or more likely, tougher opponents earlier on. In case of the latter, no matter how much more powerful the new weapon is compared to what the PC had previously, there is actually no net gain at all because the opponents that start to appear thereafter are themselves more potent. It's like, "Wow! I've now got me a +5 Holy Avenger! _Now_ I can start kicking butt! But wait: Why do all of the Bad Guys now seem like they all have +5 Holy Avengers?" It also means that the PC has just leap frogged over several chapters of "personal growth" encounters. If you don't mind Fast Forwarding towards THE END, no problem. But if you are the kind of player that wants to suck EVERYTHING there is in a game that is available to be sucked out, then you would be shortchanging yourself.

If you happen to actually want a cakewalk experience, then set Difficulty to Very Easy. Or conversely, if you enjoy a challenge, set it to Hard (or higher).

[Gurkog]

You all forget about one thing.... finding the +3 .50 MG of Doom at the start of the game doesn't mean there will be much if any ammo for it until later on. So you can look forward to using it in the future, or spend a lot of time and effort risking it all to hunt down ammo in high level areas. The ease of killing balanced by the difficulty of maintaining early on.