Kickstarter Drive Update #6

[HorseManDemon]

Yeah, I'm going to have to jump on the "NO social aspects" bandwagon. Feels a little like we got bait-and-switched. "Oh, you want this old-school single-player game? Here ya g... *PSYCHE!* here's your social game, dumbass!" :p Okay, that's a (large) bit of an exaggeration, but really, these "social aspects" go against the classic single-player RPG formula that I thought I was pledging money to. I really hope this idea is shelved (and quickly), but I'm honestly worried about the fact that these ideas were even on the table *in the first place*. I'm also worried about the damage to the reputation of the game/company/Fargo that proposing these ideas is causing.

If they stay in, I won't be retracting my pledge, but I'll definitely be disappointed that we just can't have an old-school game without these decidedly new-school "features" creeping in and tainting the whole experience.

[SXX]

1) The game will be on steam.

I love DRM-free versions.

2) You probably have a phone, and/ or meet these friends in person.
3) The Dark Souls system doesn't provide any greater opportunity for in depth discussions of tactics, etc.

I don't need any options to be connected or discuss game with my friends.
Game should be good and that all what I need.

I don't want to see some social experiments in Wasteland because I seen too much "bad" examples of them.
May be some games used them nicely, but I seen lot of games which seems uncomplicated without these features.
I don't want to get uncomplicated game only because I won't see social options.

[JeremyR]

No, no no, no social media stuff! I don't want it to be a Facebook game. I realize that console and PC games are trying to integrate it more and more to cash in on the Facebook fad, but it's really terrible, IMHO.

This is supposed to be an old school game. If people want to share experiences of it with friends, have it done the old school way, simply talking about it.

Even leaving notes like in Demon's Soul doesn't make sense for Wasteland. If you are exploring a mostly static dungeon where adventurers come and go (or come and die horribly) it makes sense for them to leave evidence of their visits. But in this case, the world should be based on the party's action, dynamic, changing to what they do. It doesn't make sense for a party further ahead to leave notes, unless they were time travellers or something (and I hate that)

[spindown]

It's quite ironic that the pitch video contained scenes of Brian Fargo getting annoyed with Farmville and Bejeweled requests. And now, just a few days later, he's facing massive nerd rage for suggesting the inclusion of social features in Wasteland 2.

[VirtualMaestro]

I think it's a shame that Brian felt the need to bring up something so divisive among the RPG community as multiplayer and social features. Regardless of whether you are pro, against, or neutral on these features, there's no doubt in my mind this is the first PR damage, for lack of a better term, that this project has taken, in what has otherwise been a kumbaya love-fest from day 1, for all involved. Where before we were united, now we are divided, and I think that's a shame for the momentum of this project.

I mean seriously, I had honestly gotten myself to forget about Hunted: The Demon's Forge, or the new Bard's Tale, and simply chalked those up to publisher pressures and being willing to do anything to keep his company afloat. But now I have to admit, there's a little tingling of doubt entering my head after this latest musing about features that nobody seems interested in except for Brian himself.

I think what bugs me about this is that multiplayer and social aspects clearly aren't something that the fanbase is clamoring for, which tells me that these are based off of some ideas and visions that Fargo himself has about this. Obviously he has played Dark/Demon Souls, and has some ideas about how some of the unique MP aspects in those games could be transferred to a classic RPG. While I agree that some of the MP mechanics in those games are cool, I really think he needs to put such notions aside and explore them more fully when he's working on a future endeavor that isn't directly funded by fans. Especially when a portion of that fanbase consists of hardcore RPG fans who are skeptical InXile really is a company that is capable of making a hardcore RPG. Their recent game catalog would suggest otherwise, and I hope that Brian and his team realizes that they really do still have something to prove here. Veering off-script design-wise is NOT a good idea, IMO...

I really hope they put up a poll soon about this. If a vast majority wish that this were never brought up and it should be purely single-player, hopefully that would be enough to nip this in the bud before it causes any more confusion or kills anymore momentum....

[SXX]

It's quite ironic that the pitch video contained scenes of Brian Fargo getting annoyed with Farmville and Bejeweled requests. And now, just a few days later, he's facing massive nerd rage for suggesting the inclusion of social features in Wasteland 2.

Yep, its make me cry.

Seems like Fargo want to be nice with all backers and its why he can't just say "NO"... He say that:
"We have received many questions about multi-player, and my feeling is that we do not think it would be the right decision for such a heavy narrative RPG. "

But I sure he should have strong opinion about some things and he should strongly say "NO".
On other side there will be more situation like this when he was nice with anybody, but got rage from all backers...

[khomotso]

I don't get what the problem is with people who withdraw their pledges for a game that they're not interested in..

I think the point is that not a lick of code has been written yet, and we're still in a pre-production creative phase. Brainstorming and all that, dontcha know. If one idea floated (again, not even really explained yet, let alone implemented) among dozens rubs you the wrong way during the creative process, you're going to take your ball and go home? That's some kind of hair-trigger. Of course it's your right: to be a drama queen.

I have a knee-jerk negative reaction to 'social,' too, but maybe the idea will gel into something solid. Or maybe it won't. We've been told that a bit more about the idea will show up in the forums, and then we'll know whether the hissy fit is appropriate or not. In the interim it seems pretty clear that it's a minor deal, as the balloon is only being floated when we're some 70% past the funding goal.

Honestly, if every controversial idea that gets floated leads to these kinds of tantrums, then I think the project might be smarter to just go underground and knock the game out behind closed doors. We the fans might end up being just as unhelpful as a meddling publisher or marketing exec.

Christ, people.

[Infinitron]

It's quite ironic that the pitch video contained scenes of Brian Fargo getting annoyed with Farmville and Bejeweled requests. And now, just a few days later, he's facing massive nerd rage for suggesting the inclusion of social features in Wasteland 2.

Yep, its make me cry.

Seems like Fargo want to be nice with all backers and its why he can't just say "NO"... He say that:
"We have received many questions about multi-player, and my feeling is that we do not think it would be the right decision for such a heavy narrative RPG. "

But I sure he should have strong opinion about some things and he should strongly say "NO".

Refusing multiplayer isn't really very controversial, though. I'm sure the folks at Bethesda have been ignoring requests for multiplayer TES games for at least a decade. And you don't get more mainstream RPG than that.

[JeremyR]

If they were doing an old-school Bard's Tale remake (or something similar), then the Demon's Soul system would make sense.

In the original D&D (tabletop) games, players would actually do things like that - since up to 50 people would play in the same dungeon (at different times) sometimes they would leave things behind for other plays to encounter (one that i remember was a promise to be rewarded if you dropped a magic item - which was basically just a scam to get free magic items)

But not for Wasteland.

[aggaire]

Ok guys, I think everyone has interpreted "social" to mean "like Facebook", and I really don't think it needs to be. Social is something that could be done nicely just to make it a little more communicative with you and 5 or 6 friends, without actually making it multiplayer, and it wouldn't take a lot of time and code to do it.

When I first heard about this, I was thinking more along the lines of "hey, that would be cool, much more like REAL old school RPGs, when you had to get a bunch of friends around a table to play." Not like the first cRPGs, but definitely like the first RPGs.

I don't want Facebook integration, I don't want "social media". I'm totally in agreement with everyone saying that. I don't want random unknown people posting ridiculous stuff that has nothing to do with the game and is obnoxious.

However, if I could pick just a few people who were my friends, and the game could be a little bit personalized, that could be fun.

The game will be a single-player experience. It's not multiplayer. So you shouldn't be radioing to each other giving hints about how to get through this area, because I just did "x" and it worked.

However, it could be cool if, for example, a friend could record his/her voice saying something, and say it's a radio transmission from 5 years ago that kept bouncing around and finally was received (all static-y and distorted).

Or say there's an old newspaper fluttering in the street that shows a snapshot of your friend's characters and has a headline with their character's name, and a brief story about something they did.

Or an old notebook written by your friend's character.

There are ways of making it a little bit "social" that I don't think would ruin the game, especially if you just keep it to a few friends.

[Jack Dandy]

I'm not THAT bothered by the "notes" idea- I think all games should take design notes from Demons/Dark Souls, really.

Anything to do with the big social networks is a big no-no, in any case.

But still, I'll need to see how he plans to implement it before I decide if it has place in this kind of game or not.

[SXX]

Refusing multiplayer isn't really very controversial, though. I'm sure the folks at Bethesda have been ignoring requests for multiplayer TES games for at least a decade. And you don't get more mainstream RPG than that.

Bethesda games its just base for mods installation, they never did any complicated game, Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim, that all just base for mods.
I never understand console player who play in "base for mods without mods", because in this state Bethesda games doesn't go away from Call of Duty.

But I pretty sure multilayer can't make any of their games better.

PS: I don't really against multilayer if its doesn't cost lot of money for coding it.
I much more scared by posting info of ANY social crap.

[flang]

You are right, there is no reason.

But if the inclusion of a potential feature, not even just this one but any feature you could think of is distasteful on such a level that you would be completely disinterested in the project then I would advise you follow the traditional process of waiting until the game is out, evaluating it, and then making your purchasing decision then.

Holding your investment to ransom when an idea does not fit with your personal view for the project does nobody any good in the long run. Voice your concerns and opinions, but down the line somewhere you are going to have to accept that what the developer wants to should come first, otherwise the entire premise of removing third party influence falls down. I don't want social mechanics in the game, but more than that I do want the team to make the product they want and if that includes social aspects then so be it.

Again, I'm not "holding my pledge for ransom" or threatening to take it away as a result of one feature or another. I am only one guy among thousands of others, just giving one opinion. That's it. I posted my thoughts in here because we were told (by Fargo) that this is where to go to voice your opinions and input on what sort of game we want Wasteland 2 to be.

Of course, the game is all theirs and we are just players. Whatever game InXile decides to make is how it's going to be and there's nothing any of us can do to stop that. I am just hoping that if they really want to make an RPG with Demons' Souls-esque social aspects, that sort of game is not something I'd be interested in, so there's no need to keep the pre-order (as you suggested, I will wait until the game is released and make the decision then). That said, while InXile are still deciding what kind of game they want Wasteland 2 to be, I'm certainly going to voice my opinion in the hope that it sticks as true to old-school gameplay as possible, because there litteraly no other games that can give that feeling right now.

[mindx2]

Ok guys, I think everyone has interpreted "social" to mean "like Facebook", and I really don't think it needs to be. Social is something that could be done nicely just to make it a little more communicative with you and 5 or 6 friends, without actually making it multiplayer, and it wouldn't take a lot of time and code to do it.

When I first heard about this, I was thinking more along the lines of "hey, that would be cool, much more like REAL old school RPGs, when you had to get a bunch of friends around a table to play." Not like the first cRPGs, but definitely like the first RPGs.

I don't want Facebook integration, I don't want "social media". I'm totally in agreement with everyone saying that. I don't want random unknown people posting ridiculous stuff that has nothing to do with the game and is obnoxious.

However, if I could pick just a few people who were my friends, and the game could be a little bit personalized, that could be fun.

The game will be a single-player experience. It's not multiplayer. So you shouldn't be radioing to each other giving hints about how to get through this area, because I just did "x" and it worked.

However, it could be cool if, for example, a friend could record his/her voice saying something, and say it's a radio transmission from 5 years ago that kept bouncing around and finally was received (all static-y and distorted).

Or say there's an old newspaper fluttering in the street that shows a snapshot of your friend's characters and has a headline with their character's name, and a brief story about something they did.

Or an old notebook written by your friend's character.

There are ways of making it a little bit "social" that I don't think would ruin the game, especially if you just keep it to a few friends.

See, I disagree with this notion. Nothing would be more jarring to me than reading one of my friends writing within a game written by professionals. I want to play this game to escape reality for a while. I still feel that they will have to "compromise" on certain aspects to balance the game for those who would use this option thus lessening the game for those who do not.

[PiPboy]

Honestly people are over reacting. If they don't want to use the Social compontent they don't have to. its so extremely simple as that.

[Elwood36]

It seems a lot of you read the kickstarter update saw the word "social" and came running here to complain about it. First this wouldn't be anything like facebook. to those of you who are saying "No facebook in my games" you are delusional or didn't read the update fully. Nobody here even has a clue as to how hard this would be to implement or how much it would cost, and beside Fargo said right in the update that they would be hiring more staff at that point so if they were going to make "your" game before then they are sure as hell going to make it after that. Stop and think about this before you guys voice your knee jerk reactions about this feature. This has been done successfully in other games and it can be done well here too.

[Odd144]

Kickstarter has slowed down because of all the negative comments.....this is why I will never liked self proclaimed "FanBoys" as they instinctively jump quickly into the haters queue if they don't like a simple OPTIONAL dynamic as would be the case for the Social aspect that Fargo/InXile are talking about, it is going to be a tough week to try and get this campaign back on track, $ 2 Mil is looking far away now

PS - EA Games, Activision and ZeniMax are laughing their heads off right now at InXile, thinking "There take your medicine you NERD developers MWAHAHA!"

[alexlovesinxile]

If they don't want to use the Social compontent they don't have to. its so extremely simple as that.

It's really not. I don't speak for everyone, but our concern is also tied up in issues of focus-of-vision and feature creep.

[madmax]

Honestly people are over reacting. If they don't want to use the Social compontent they don't have to. its so extremely simple as that.

I'm just truly confused why this idea ever came up and was especially written in to the update? I want to disconnect from the world and really be someone else in another world. Having people leave items or notes in your game is like having your boss calling you on your vacation even if it's just to give you advice on good places to snorkle. It's well meant but completely destroys your effort to take your mind off of work (i.e. immersion breaking).

To the people wanting to withhold their pledges I think that's great if that's their conviction to do so. Freedom for all and no judgements about somebody else's decisions. I will certainly keep my pledge in because I think this game will be fantastic and I will joyfully click on "Settings" -> "Social" -> "Turn off (forever!)" and proceed into the Wasteland.

I trust Mr Fargo and InXile, he seems very dedicated to creating an old school RPG experience and also trust that whatever options he builds into the game they will not take too much of the budget, affect the game design or be impossible to turn off. He's also EXPLICITLY states that InXile will NOT go against the majority. So I really feel there is no need to despair gentlemen and women.

With that said, my official vote for the social feature in any way, shape or form is: NO.

Thank you.

Ps. I'm also voting No for multiplayer and achievements and anything like it. Ds.

[Infinitron]

Kickstarter has slowed down because of all the negative comments.....this is why I will never liked self proclaimed "FanBoys" as they instinctively jump quickly into the haters queue if they don't like a simple OPTIONAL dynamic as would be the case for the Social aspect that Fargo/InXile are talking about, it is going to be a tough week to try and get this campaign back on track, $ 2 Mil is looking far away now

PS - EA Games, Activision and ZeniMax are laughing their heads off right now at InXile, thinking "There take your medicine you NERD developers MWAHAHA!"

Relax. The Kickstarter has been slow for days now.