Brother None wrote:Is it? People pay for the costume pack. No one is paying for this.
Wait what? People are getting this without giving the company money is that what you are saying?
It's a gift (since you get two copies with the $30 tier, everything else in the tier is de facto a gift), but one with limited claim time. It will never be sold.
Oh I see more ridiculous semantics. Have you ever worked in marketing because this sort of pretzel like logic and excuses are exactly the sort of arguments they and their supporters usually use. Pre-order DLC is a "gift" for loyal fans. You're not paying for it. It comes with the game when you buy it new. Etc.
Brother None wrote:And he did.
like I had hoped.
He's not releasing nickel and dime DLC. He's not affected the gameplay balance or non-cosmetic experience of gamers in any way. At best, it is analogues to the "worst excusses" of the publishing industry, it certainly isn't equitable, so effectively, he did avoid.
How many times must I agree with you before you will move onto substantive arguments? I agree this is not AS bad as nickel and dime DLC. I agree this is not AS bad as other forms as DLC. I agree this is all relatively minor for many reasons. Can you stop trying to pretend I have ever said this was the end of the world, the same as the worst DLCs ever, etc. I only brought them up because you askedme why my hatred of DLC is so vehement. You brought them into the conversation by asking me about them. I didn't bring them up as a direct comparison.
Brother None wrote:No I don't, because that's all DLC means. Some DLC like GTA IV's is bigger. Some is nickel and dime, which inXile won't do.
Fine let's pretend your just defending the dictionary and not arguing trivialities. So yes I concede your point. DLC has existed since the first day we downloaded something from the internet. From henceforth I shall refer to every single thing I download as DLC. Moving on.
Bigger does not make it ok. You don't KNOW inXile won't do that anymore than I do. You just strongly believe that like I do. That's why seeing even this admittedly very minor
form of DLC is annoying.
Some is middle-tier, like the DLC for Fallout 3 or New Vegas. I wouldn't be surprised at all if inXile releases a similar-sized DLC for like 5 bucks down the line. Is that lambastable because it is the same model as the industry uses, or is it fine because the price-content balance is tilted in favor of the consumer? See, it's rarely black-and-white.
Except all 4 story DLCs are even now $10 not nearly as good a content to cost ratio as an expansion. I only bought them because 1) there was a great steam sale bundling them together 2) I LOVE Obsidian and I chose to grin and bear it to support them. 3) I chose to believe Obsidian did DLC over an expansion because the publisher/Bethesda force them.
(Probably naive but <Shrug>)
Now I can't tell myself anyone is forcing inXile so for me it IS black and white. If they engage in any form of DLC instead of expansions and I am giving up on them. It would have to be something really substantive for a low price to overcome my now automatic revulsion.
Brother None wrote:Of course. Just like my experience is enhanced from owning pre-release novellas that contain background lore and hints about the game. Just like early beta people will get to experience more of the game in content later to be cut. A lot of things impact gameplay experience. You have to draw a line somewhere, or be absolute and include everything. Your line is "anything in the final game", mine is "anything that impacts the final game in a way that impacts gameplay and balance". Can't really say either of us are wrong, just that yours is a minority opinion (from the limited poll we have).
Yes that is where I draw the line because it's a pretty natural place to do so and where the vast majority of outrage over pre-order bonuses come from. Whether those bonuses affect gameplay or graphics I have no idea what the difference is. Can't have a game without gameplay or graphics. Yet you would be upset if they cut or added to gameplay but shrug when they cut or add something graphically. Some people play games for the art within them and care little to nothing for the actual gameplay.
Arguing novellas and such enhance the game
is disingenuous. They enhance your appreciation/love of the setting and characters perhaps but not the actual game itself. A huge Star Wars fan may love the EU to death but that does not actually enhance Tie Fighter or Jedi: Outcast. As for Beta that is again just extremely disingenuous. Betas have never been something gamers expected to be made available to everyone that purchased a game so there is nothing anti old school about restricting beta testers however the company feels fit.
Very true that neither of us is wrong. This just boils down to different principles/priorities and preferences. But I am shocked you'd make such a tired throw away argument to being in a minority. No reason to be mad at publishers for making everything FPS then. It is undeniably what the majority of gamers want.
Technically true but that doesn't dismiss or invalidate us turn based top down/isometric fans.
I agree. I respect the principled nature of the people who object to these ingame pre-order cosmetic/funny bonuses, I simply feel the tradeoff make it not a big deal. I can understand feeling otherwise.
I agree this itself is not a big deal. The part that is frustrating to me is people seem to have entirely forgotten the awful DLC started with exactly this small stuff people shrugged their shoulders at. The slippery slope argument at the time seemed ridiculous. The bonuses were so small and often easily gotten around so who really cared? Over a decade later though and we get From Ashes. I'm not saying inXile is going to turn into EA just saying the most frustrating part for me was never this DLC itself but the communities reaction to it. I'd expected Kickstarters obviously generous nature to shine through and most people would insist on sharing in-game content with everyone. That's what happened when HBS suggested a special backers only nostalgia mission. I'd hoped Kickstarter people would also remember history and have learned their lesson. Same game for everyone no more exceptions.
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