What makes a currency viable?

[CaptainPatch]

[list][*]Brotherhood of Steel Scrip - Used for buying/trading/selling within the Brotherhood of Steel and affiliated..[/*]

This follows the "Company Store" model. Participants are all within the organization, so whatever the Company says, goes. The Company sets the prices and controls the amount of money flowing through the community. It also can reduce the amount of loose cash needed to ease the flow of Commerce because many/most transactions can be simply Ledger entries.

[Inca]

I think there is no point in bringing a Unified currency. In strong communities there should be a currency, outside there should be barter.

[Prometheus]

I think there is no point in bringing a Unified currency. In strong communities there should be a currency, outside there should be barter.

I agree*.

*That said, if within a strong community (e.g., Desert Ranger's territory) a currency has value, and the shopkeeper or trader visits areas near there.. he has an incentive to accept Desert Ranger's credits too.

e.g., maybe if you lived in Texas you wouldn't accept Canadian Dollars, but if you were on the border of Canada, you might.

[Lucky]

From what I can remember, the currency in the original Wasteland was a universally accepted "cash" that had the same value everywhere. Fallout had bottlecaps of course. New Vegas introduced multiple currencies alongside bottlecaps.

Personally I would like to see a system of multiple currencies similar to New Vegas. It had more depth and added to the story, imo.

One form of currency could be ammunition. It is scarce, difficult to produce, easily identifiable and has inherent value. Furthermore, only complex societies could create new stocks of ammo. Raiders and tribal would have to scavenge, jury-rig or steal. Additionally, it would make wasting ammo even more costly.

I never liked bottlecaps as currency.

Anyone have any thoughts on the system and or type of currency in the Wasteland?

[Lucky]

Moving over here after erroneously posting my own topic.

From what I can remember, the currency in the original Wasteland was a universally accepted "cash" that had the same value everywhere. Fallout had bottlecaps of course. New Vegas introduced multiple currencies alongside bottlecaps.

Personally I would like to see a system of multiple currencies similar to New Vegas. It had more depth and added to the story, imo.

One form of currency could be ammunition. It is scarce, difficult to produce, easily identifiable and has inherent value. Furthermore, only complex societies could create new stocks of ammo. Raiders and tribal would have to scavenge, jury-rig or steal. Additionally, it would make wasting ammo even more costly.

Anyways, I never liked bottlecaps as currency. Bullets and the spent casings would be my vote for one type of currency.

[Ekaros]

Not sure if this kind of meta-game is doable. Rangers could be implementing new currency controlled by themselves, as you are going to build new base. So players could try to get their own currency circulating. On other hand it would be intresting as you could have "unlimited" amount of it at worst case. Massive inflation and in some time no one would accept it anymore.

[TNZ]

I don't think the old Ranger HQ would be minting currency. They would most likely just use the currency of the settlements they trade with. Ranger HQ might eventually decide to guarantee that currency by force of arms. I think this would equally apply to the new Ranger HQ as well.

Since ammunition would have such a high bartering value to begin with, there no need to make it officially a currency. There would be the problem of scavenges finding large amounts of ammunition, which would lead to rampant deflation of the ammunition currency. The same goes for any other items that have high barter values as well.

I know that ammunition being scarce in these types of games is the tradition, but there is actually an inordinate amount of ammunition stored domestically in the United States. I would also assume that any large survivalist groups would have the ability to make their own ammunition.

[CaptainPatch]

I don't think the old Ranger HQ would be minting currency. They would most likely just use the currency of the settlements they trade with. Ranger HQ might eventually decide to guarantee that currency by force of arms. I think this would equally apply to the new Ranger HQ as well.

Just a minor correction: You are NOT establishing a new HQ. Ranger Center will _still_ be the HQ. What you are establishing is just a base. Sort of like a "branch bank" is to the central bank.

Even if scavengers do stumble upon a large cache of ammo, it wouldn't have that much impact on the Economy. Because of its inherent utility, most people will tend to hoard much/most of their ammo. I would expect that only about 10-20% of ammo would actually be free-flowing through the Economy. (One thing you do NOT want to run out of in the Wasteland is bullets!)

[stonetoes]

Anyone else get the feeling that once the post-apocalypse comes it'll be a matter of days before CaptainPatch is buying our valuables in exchange for $PatchBucks$ ?

[CaptainPatch]

Anyone else get the feeling that once the post-apocalypse comes it'll be a matter of days before CaptainPatch is buying our valuables in exchange for $PatchBucks$ ?

Pounds. Francs. Pesos. Dollars. Lira. Yen. Whatever. In Post-Apocalyptia, the currency of choice will be Patches!

[stonetoes]

Pounds. Francs. Pesos. Dollars. Lira. Yen. Whatever. In Post-Apocalyptia, the currency of choice will be Patches!

"Are you sure these coloured beads with pirates on them are as valuable as bullets, drugs and fuel?"
"Sure, they're the new currency I'm introducing." *Decieve check passed*

[TNZ]

I don't think the old Ranger HQ would be minting currency. They would most likely just use the currency of the settlements they trade with. Ranger HQ might eventually decide to guarantee that currency by force of arms. I think this would equally apply to the new Ranger HQ as well.

Just a minor correction: You are NOT establishing a new HQ. Ranger Center will _still_ be the HQ. What you are establishing is just a base. Sort of like a "branch bank" is to the central bank.

Even if scavengers do stumble upon a large cache of ammo, it wouldn't have that much impact on the Economy. Because of its inherent utility, most people will tend to hoard much/most of their ammo. I would expect that only about 10-20% of ammo would actually be free-flowing through the Economy. (One thing you do NOT want to run out of in the Wasteland is bullets!)

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant that the new base would be a regional or local HQ, not a replacement for the head office.

[Drool]

Personally I would like to see a system of multiple currencies similar to New Vegas. It had more depth and added to the story, imo.

Yes and no. The multiple currencies were pretty neat, but they didn't go anywhere with them. Sloan would pay you in NCR bucks because that was all they had, and both sides would drop their respective currencies when killed, but that was it. What they really needed to do was have an NCR and Legion Px or the like, where they only took the right currency. And then, not far outside the camp/base, you'd have someone as a money changer.

As it was, NCR dollars and Legion coins were nothing more than another piece of weightless vendor trash.

[GodComplex]

Personally I would like to see a system of multiple currencies similar to New Vegas. It had more depth and added to the story, imo.

One form of currency could be ammunition. It is scarce, difficult to produce, easily identifiable and has inherent value. Furthermore, only complex societies could create new stocks of ammo. Raiders and tribal would have to scavenge, jury-rig or steal. Additionally, it would make wasting ammo even more costly.

Anyways, I never liked bottlecaps as currency. Bullets and the spent casings would be my vote for one type of currency.

The biggest flaw with the multiple currency types, as already stated, is that they seem to become no more than trash with a different name. It wasn't money, it was just an item to be traded for caps. But that's because it was implemented poorly. To do things proper you'd have actual banks. And unless we're talking about a region where everyone is living in tar paper shacks with nothing but minimal necessities, then banks could exist.

ANd I believe it's been beat to death, but anyone with access to fire and a dung heap can make full on firearm cartridges. But that gets into intrinsically valuable vs fiat vs commodity currency. Which has also been beat to death.

I think they should go back to gold and play off some California new gold rush scenario, that the Rangers get to fight against. A gold rush with people using scorpitrons to facilitate claim jumping.

[Prometheus]

The biggest flaw with the multiple currency types, as already stated, is that they seem to become no more than trash with a different name. It wasn't money, it was just an item to be traded for caps. But that's because it was implemented poorly. To do things proper you'd have actual banks. And unless we're talking about a region where everyone is living in tar paper shacks with nothing but minimal necessities, then banks could exist.

[...]

Seconded.

[...]

I think they should go back to gold and play off some California new gold rush scenario, that the Rangers get to fight against. A gold rush with people using scorpitrons to facilitate claim jumping.

Why... why would gold be valuable in a post-apocalyptic California?

[krellen]

Why... why would gold be valuable in a post-apocalyptic California?

For the same reason it's always been valuable - it's rare.

[Prometheus]

Why... why would gold be valuable in a post-apocalyptic California?

For the same reason it's always been valuable - it's rare.

That's nice. Why would I want to trade my medpack for your bar of gold again?

Unless your bar of gold is actually worth something, as in, I can buy other stuff with it, there's no reason for me to take it. And unless the actual currency is gold based, in a post-apocalyptic world it's not like gold has a whole lot of uses. Similarly, I don't think anyone's going to bother with making a gold-based currency in a post-apocalyptic world when it's easier (or worst case: just as easy) to print off paper-based money and directly control the amount available.

There's lots of rare things in the world, but we aren't rushing off to go stripmine for them.

[krellen]

Before the invention of electronics, gold had very little use except as ornamentation. It has still historically been a valued commodity and the basis for many forms of exchange. Why do you assume civilization has collapsed to such an extent that gold no longer has any value? There is no basis whatsoever in Wasteland to assume this level of societal collapse (of course, Wasteland did work with paper money, but silver was still good-as-cash.)

[CaptainPatch]

ANd I believe it's been beat to death, but anyone with access to fire and a dung heap can make full on firearm cartridges.

_Technically_ you are correct. The melting point of brass is between 900 and 940 degrees Celsius. The average temperature of a campfire ranges between 900 and 1100 degrees Celsius. [Trivia: The tip of a burning cigarette burns at 900 degrees Celsius.] HOWEVER, to manufacture casings and then turn them into bullets, you would need raw brass (any brass musical instrument will do) and the very precisely shaped molds for the exact caliber cartridge that you need. And keep in mind that while pouring molten brass, the fumes given off are poisonous. Once you have your castings, they are still NOT bullets. Next you will need _smokeless_ gunpowder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokeless_powder), something which is not readily available unless there is some substantial industry base providing it. Lastly, you would need a center-fire primer (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t531999/) which absolutely requires an industrial base to be produced. Compared to those three elements, casting the actual lead bullet is child's play.

That's nice. Why would I want to trade my medpack for your bar of gold again?

Gold is pretty universally perceived as having value. As such, it acts as a medium of exchange. That is, pretty much anybody WILL accept it as payment for whatever it is that they are selling. And then later, you can then use that gold to buy pretty much anything that you want. The drawback of gold ingots is that it is difficult to "fine tune" transactions. For instance, how much of bar of gold would it take to buy just ONE loaf of bread? Yes, that one bar of gold could buy 1,000 loaves of bread, but 1) who ever needs 1,000 loaves of bread at one time, and 2) most vendors wouldn't have that quantity in stock anyway. So in the end, because of the difficulty in "making change", the owner of the bar of gold will most likely end up having to barter anyway in order to get full value for his bar of gold.

[Prometheus]

@CaptainPatch:

Before the invention of electronics, gold had very little use except as ornamentation. It has still historically been a valued commodity and the basis for many forms of exchange. Why do you assume civilization has collapsed to such an extent that gold no longer has any value? There is no basis whatsoever in Wasteland to assume this level of societal collapse (of course, Wasteland did work with paper money, but silver was still good-as-cash.)

Unless there are factories stamping out electronics, I don't see how gold is valuable as a material. Using it as a currency doesn't make sense if you already have paper money. etc..etc..

Also, regarding bullets, why not recycle the casings? I've never tried, but...

Getting back on topic, I think there should be a few different currencies, backed by whatever the regional powers might be. The player gets to use Desert Rangers' scrip to purchase goods from Ranger HQ to the east, and maybe spread the currency to nearby settlements. And in the original starting area (aka, Wasteland 1 area), the settlements around Ranger HQ could already be using DR Scrip.