Continuity Concerns

[Sobboth]

I would like to be able to use my wasteland 1 save like it was possible for Wizardry 6/7/8 !
In fact i have not played wasteland 1 so i better

[yllandian]

First post here, sorry if I'm repeating stuff.

I'm all for teasing fans with name-dropping homages to WL. Bring on the Serpioids and Martian Firelances! Hello Angela Deth and Snake Vargas! Who names her kid Metal Maniac? What's this mangler doing the community store? What the frak does Combat Shooting do? Wow, it's the Mutie Cuties! I saw them live in Quartz once. Why is that dude coming at me wielding a Visa card? Meson cannons? Ion beamers? Which should I grab? "Aww, he's so cute, does your Nuke Pooch bite?" "No." <bite, bite> "I thought you said..." "That is not my Nuke Pooch."

This is what detail text is made for. And Wasteland has this in spades: everything could be examined to add another shake of spice to the scene soup. It's what helped hook me on the game---the graphics didn't need to be iso or 3D; the text itself was immersive. The Fallout franchise does homages well, too, mostly in text references to earlier Fallout places (e.g., Navarro), characters (e.g., Tandi, Harold) and institutions (Brotherhood of Steel). And FO:NV finally gave us the WL homage we were looking for in Old World Blues.

We may not want to be boxed in plotwise by cleaving too closely to the original game's plot. Continuity is hard to get right, especially when you're doing sequels. We'd need to employ a full time Continuity Cop to make sure plot details squared with the original game. Instead, teasers of continuity here and there would be easier (and more fun!) to include. Flavor text. As long as it's done naturally, not forced, and not duplicative of homages in previous games.

The WL paragraph book is chock full of good homage material. Especially the fake paragraphs, which wouldn't come laden with continuity issues. The whole notion of fake paragraphs was novel to me when I played the game, but maybe it grew out of the choose-your-own-adventure style D&D books and T&T solos of the time. If we do another paragraph book (for old time's sake), I for one volunteer to write some fake paragraphs.

[Gizmo]

If Fallout was game designers in the 90s figuring out what a broken 50s future would look like, then I want Wasteland 2 to be what some game designers now can imagine a broken 80s future to look like.

All that awful 80s style and popculture twisted, mutated and bombed to hell.

I have to agree... but it could get scary...

[TailSwallower]

I have to agree... but it could get scary...

Dear god...

At least we'd get to kill the rampaging horde of hair metal harpies!

(Great mash-up by the way.)

[Quarex]

I have to agree that "world stuck in the bleak twisted future of the 1980s" sounds like a perfect design aesthetic, particularly as a counter to Fallout's well-established 1950s aesthetic now. I mean, seriously--"don't touch that jukebox, I WANT TO HEAR RATT AGAIN!" Incredibly memorable moment from Wasteland, yet it would have felt totally out of place in Fallout.

I don't think I could go back to the pre-8-bit era graphics.

Hey, buddy, those are DEFINITIVE 8-bit-era graphics, thank you very much! They ARE 8-bit graphics to me! I have been using this avatar all over the place for about a decade now.

(Though I considered not using it here since, well, I am sure there will be a dozen others doing the same )

We may not want to be boxed in plotwise by cleaving too closely to the original game's plot. Continuity is hard to get right, especially when you're doing sequels. We'd need to employ a full time Continuity Cop to make sure plot details squared with the original game.

It is not that I disagree with you; there is no need to have the game take place in the exact same stretch of habitable area between endless radioactive deserts with all the same locations to visit and all the same characters who were not plot-required to die in the first game still around. BUT--you say you would need a Continuity Cop to keep track of plot details? Hey, I am not trying to be rude, I love the game as much as anybody, but it would really not be that hard to make sure you avoided conflicting with the first game's continuity. Just about anyone who spent as much time playing the game as most of us did would be able to instantly tell you if something meshed with the original game!

This ... this is the most amazing thing I have ever seen.

[The Beast Man]

I have to agree that "world stuck in the bleak twisted future of the 1980s" sounds like a perfect design aesthetic, particularly as a counter to Fallout's well-established 1950s aesthetic now. I mean, seriously--"don't touch that jukebox, I WANT TO HEAR RATT AGAIN!" Incredibly memorable moment from Wasteland, yet it would have felt totally out of place in Fallout.

I don't think I could go back to the pre-8-bit era graphics.

Hey, buddy, those are DEFINITIVE 8-bit-era graphics, thank you very much! They ARE 8-bit graphics to me! I have been using this avatar all over the place for about a decade now.

(Though I considered not using it here since, well, I am sure there will be a dozen others doing the same )

You're right; I didn't know 8-bit graphics pre-dated Nintendo (just looked it up). I stand corrected.

Either way, I using graphics with a resolution that low is going too far. Graphics should at least be up to par with Fallout.

[Ausir]

You're right; I didn't know 8-bit graphics pre-dated Nintendo (just looked it up). I stand corrected.

Huh? Wasteland certainly doesn't predate Nintendo.

[Flamekebab]

I'm guessing you're using "Nintendo" to mean the NES? As Wasteland most definitely doesn't pre-date Nintendo as a company as they were founded in 1889!

The NES came out before Wasteland by a significant margin, territory dependent (1983 being the earliest, Japan).

[Gizmo]

Either way, I using graphics with a resolution that low is going too far. Graphics should at least be up to par with Fallout.

I'll go with that.

* Wasteland was 4 bit graphics, Fallout was 8 bit (though you only ever saw 229 colors at once IIRC).

~Technically this is 8-bit:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth

[Drunknmunkey]

I wouldn't mind seeing stuff that makes you turn your head and go "What the...?" and there is some guy can explain it like it was yesterdays news. I mean it is the end of the world and countries would go for any half-baked idea that sounded like it could give them an edge from earth penetrating satellite rail guns to psychic kittens no matter how disastrous the results turn out to be.

[The Beast Man]

By Nintendo, I meant the Nintendo Entertainment System. And my 8-bit reference was a reference to the processors, not the graphics, which were around since the 70s I guess.

I got caught up in the terminological mixup without my hair-splitting blade. Anyway, I think I made my point that the graphics should at least be on the same level if not better than Fallout.

[sync-oz]

I don't remember enough of wasteland to have any concerns about continuity. It was too long ago. Go for it and create an interesting environment, I reckon, don't feel fettered by previous games lore.

[Ausir]

By Nintendo, I meant the Nintendo Entertainment System. And my 8-bit reference was a reference to

I know what you meant and Wasteland (1988) was released after NES (1983).

[cdoublejj]

I think i liked the idea of it being locked in the mid to late 80's instead of the 50s, that sounds pretty cool.

[Jess Gulbranson]

I would really like to know what the fate of Citadel Starstation was.

Me too. Always have. In fact, I started a story years ago (tentatively titled "Warp Ass") that dealt with this. So far it had involved space marines (more Aliens than Warhammer), a closed timelike curve, and Frank Burley, Last of the Red-hot Spetznaz. Hope I still have the manuscript. Would be good to revisit it, especially as I'm actually a good writer now.

[maddogfargo]

As long as they have Ratt on the jukebox, we should be fine. Perhaps a grave to Redhawk (unmarked peferrably) where he could refuse to do anything even from beyond the grave.

[The Dutch Ghost]

I wonder if Citadel Starstation would be used in a similar role as the BOMB stations of Van Buren would have, but that would obvious be to much plot recycling and I rather see a complete new story.
Still some more details about the station would be cool.

While I general think the game should be Mad Max like, with decaying towns and cities and most of the dangers being bandits, cultists, mutants, and mutant animals, I do hope the team puts in a secret military installation a la Sleeper Base or Base Cochise and robots and cyborgs the player sooner or later runs in.

But they should not be common, something you find wandering around, more something special that is ready to give you a nasty surprise.

[UniversalWolf]

I agree with the general sentiments contained within this thread.

I pity people who won't even give old games like Wasteland a try. Have you ever played roguelikes? It's really no harder than that. You'll never appreciate contemporary games (and computers, for that matter) unless you check out the old stuff.

[yllandian]

Shyeah, I spent far too much time on roguelikes, esp. nethack. I guess it was a bit of a regression for me from Wasteland, as there's not much plot to them. But Wasteland, even with its rudimentary graphics, has always been king of CRPG plots, even holding its own in that arena compared with modern games. Plot is WL's best feature, and should be WL2's too. That's why I'm so excited the same writing team is on board.

[Roger Wilco]

I would keep the timeline. I wouldn't want to see it retconed to have the world blown up by middle east terrorists or something. I've gotten enough of that in games