Main plot: MUST there be one?

[CaptainPatch]

This idea would divert from the original Wasteland _significantly_, so I don't doubt very much that it will most likely NOT be even considered. But it struck as something to contemplate.

It seems like nearly every RPG, Adventure, and Action game these days revolves around a "Save the world!" type of main quest. Masse Effect is about saving the galaxy from the Reapers. Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is about destroying Alduin before he destroys all life in Tamriel. Fallout: New Vegas was about defeating Caesar's Legion -- or helping it, before the NCR and every other faction gets absorbed by Caesar. Fallout 3 was about completing Project Purity and defeating the Enclave. The original WL was about saving the world from robots bent on destroying all human life. All of them, BIG objectives.

Here, we have an entire post-Apocalyptic setting where we can have fun exploring and interacting with people wherever we go. Do we actually _need_ yet another BIG objective RPG? Save the world _again_? Isn't it enough to jump into the Wasteland and simply roleplay being there? Fill up the Wasteland with quests of things that need to be done, by someone if not by you, but there would certainly be enough to keep us busy. Plus, for followup expansions, it would be quite simple to add several score more of quests to keep us going.

Wandering off to CA, our horizons will be seriously expanded. Why obscure those horizons with ONE huge looming threat -- that only YOU can neutralize?

[TΛPETRVE]

Most people expect a goal to work towards, that creates an arc of suspense during play. Otherwise, all you have is an unfocused sandbox, that you wander through until all of a sudden you reach its limits and then the game is over with no satisfying conclusion.

However, nowhere is it written that the main plot has to kick in as soon as you start the game. Major events could as well occur only very late in the game. Or, the way I would prefer it, the main plot just happens , no matter if you take part in it, or not. It takes place, in real time, and you decide what role you want to play in it - or not.

[CaptainPatch]

[quote="TΛPETRVE"However, nowhere is it written that the main plot has to kick in as soon as you start the game. Major events could as well occur only very late in the game. Or, the way I would prefer it, the main plot just happens , no matter if you take part in it, or not. It takes place, in real time, and you decide what role you want to play in it - or not.[/quote]
Or, following that path, there could be _several_ "main" stories. Finish one, and then another activates -- all you have to do is find it. You could have the core game that never gets retired, but rather grows with additional installments. You never actually lose access to any of the environment just because, "Now we're playing Game II or Game III." The sandbox just keeps getting bigger. Just don't make any "Save the world " plots.

[DRTJR]

Skyrim has a main plot?!


All kidding aside, Yes it does need a goal to work towards, we need a quest to compleate and we need to feel needed. Following Tony Montana's three step success ladder is a motivation but why do you want the money, the power, and the P****. Is it so you can make the wasteland a better place, to forge a mighty empire, or to gourd yourself until someone else ends your misery? We need the game to give us a reason since the backstory is not enough to motivate most players.

This actually is pretty informative and a must watch.
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2012/03/27/counter-monkey-dungeon-mastering-a-great-game/

[lomifeh]

Personally, I like a main story arc. I want a story.

[CaptainPatch]

This actually is pretty informative and a must watch.
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2012/03/27/counter-monkey-dungeon-mastering-a-great-game/

Actually from what I heard in the first few minutes, he is suggesting something along the lines I had in mind.

You _start_ with an assignment to give you an initial "vector". In the case of WL2, the initial assignment to place a new Ranger base and then essentially "see what you can see".. The party gets to play "Lewis & Clark in the 21st Century". Once they have their foot in the door and are at Location A, there are several module-sized quests available that _they_ may choose to explore. Each of those adventures take them to other Locations, each of which reveal additional adventures taking them to additional Locations where they find additional adventures that......and so on. NONE of these adventures should be "Earth-shattering" of along the lines of "Save the planet!"

In the original WL, you had a string of adventures as you progressed along the path of the main quest. You went to Highpool and killed a rabid dog and saved Jackie. Then you went to the Ag Station and killed Harry the Bunny Master. Then you went to the Rail Nomads and was tasked to take a Visa card to the Head Crusher in Quartz. Optionally, you picked up an engine to take back to Highpool to fix their water pump. When you got Quartz, you needed to take out Ugly John. In doing so, you meet Ace and he leads you to a Great Danger in Vegas. On the way you stop at Needles and explore the mystery of the Blood Cult. It isn't until Vegas that you get nailed solidly to the main quest of "Save the Planet From the Robots!" And then when that one adventure is complete, the game ends.

Did that main quest have to be so monumental to make the game fun? A serious concern, yes, but "Save the World!"? No. Furthermore, aside from the Fat Freddy-Faran Brygo rivalry in Vegas, there really aren't any other side quests left to the game. Everything from that point is about gearing up with better weapons and armor before the Finale Confrontation.

So, start us out to Do Something to get us going. Thereafter, we follow of "See What We Could See" mission and pursue those quests that spark our interest. Our sense of accomplishment is provided by every adventure we complete. We do not "Save the World" this time around. But seriously, how many times do you have to save the world before even that looks like a routine chore?

[Drool]

It needn't be "save the world", but there needs to be an arc. Even Minecraft has an end game.

[DRTJR]

My point is that their needs to be motivation. and certain doom is a hell of a motivator.

[CaptainPatch]

It seems to me that nearly every TV series episode is mostly "adventure modules" that only last for one hour. There are recurring themes to some episodes of a series can tie many episodes together. Such as, Red John in "The Mentalist" and "NCIS" hunting for the Port-to-Port Killer. Most episodes are pointedly NOT monumental, but nevertheless, the fans stay put for that hour. (If they're like me, it's dinner time. Camping out in the recliner is rather more comfortable than sitting at the dinner table.)

But then there are shows like "24", where the mission is to "Save the Nation!". But didn't it seem a bit tedious along about Season 4 or so? [shrug] Maybe many in the audience hadn't seen the earlier seasons. Maybe others simply don't try to recall what happened last season, or the season before that. Real "right NOW" people living in the moment.

[TNZ]

Just like a book, I do think a role-playing game needs to have a main plot. I do understand your point about the ‘save the world’ thing being unbelievably overused by modern games. It does seem, in modern games, that the main plot is very often turned into a club to beat the player.

I think the problem is not that modern games have strong main plot, but rather that they treat the player like an idiot, and keep mentioning the main plot incessantly, assuming if they don't the player might forget the main plot.

The thing I hate most about games like Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim is that if you try to ignore the main plot it literally comes looking for you. I mean just how did those legionnaires (in Fallout) know that that I was the guy they were looking for, and my absolute favourite ( in Skyrim) when dragon attack randomly.

[CaptainPatch]

The thing I hate most about games like Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas and Skyrim is that if you try to ignore the main plot it literally comes looking for you. I mean just how did those legionnaires (in Fallout) know that that I was the guy they were looking for, and my absolute favourite ( in Skyrim) when dragon attack randomly.

Never heard of "protagonist vibe"? It's like a GPS tracking device that only antagonists can tune in.

[Phaederuss]

I don't see why it "has to have a main plot". Why not multiple plots throughout the world? A main plot is actually kind of a cop out in an RPG. I think the player should be influencing and creating the story for their characters as they go. This doesn't mean there is no goal or motivations, that's a non sequitor. It just means there will be multiple plots and motivations and depending on your characters, you choose which ones you want to focus on.

[Zeronet]

Considering there already is one, the answer to your question is yes. Jason D Anderson wrote the main plot, though im sure it'll be redrafted a little.

[ijusten]

The rangers are supposed to be problem solvers, the very best on their field. I would be really disappointed if Wasteland 2 would be just about walking from town to town to save figurative cats from trees.

Keep in mind the obvious reason for main plot; it forces the player to walk the world and heads him to the right direction (east of Vault 13 instead of west, where the super mutants lived; then to south to Junktown and Hub and from there to Necropolis). You're not on rails, but the road is clearly marked to only one direction.

I quite liked Fallout 1; getting the water chip was rather small problem in the large scheme of things till you stumble on the super mutants and they become your problems as well. Similarly I could well see rangers fixing problems that only apply to one community (such as water chip and Vault 13; GECK and Arroyo, Vault City/Gecko situation etc.) which snowballs into something that affects everybody (the Master, Enclave).

However, this has been done (Fallout 3 did it as well, though less successfully). FNV was excellent spin where you were more or less in it just for yourself without any obvious altruistic reasons. I'm sure another spin is possible as well. There are really creative people on board of this game.

But there must be a good main plot. Oblivion felt more like a theme park than actual world where my actions have real effect.

[Wanderer]

Yes, Wasteland 2 needs a well written, non-linear plot.

[Interloper]

Yes, there should be an overarching goal. In things like Oblivion or Skyrim where the main plot is arguably the factions, it's something anyone could do - your character is of no importance to anything, they just need a person to fill the slot. Even though the main quest is boring, it's the part of the game that's specifically tailored to you, so there's a reason for you to be there. It doesn't have to be linear or "epic" - something as simple as "go out and do something for the ranger station" at least gives some context for your character to exist in, even if it's the barest excuse for a plot there is.

I'd much prefer something more in depth though, if only because the main plot tends to come before the ending where you find out the effects of your actions in the long term, and because that's important you might has well have a well-crafted journey to that point.

[Emmy Lou]

I actually thought NV accomplished this well in a sense. I didn't read anything about the game as it was in development and up 'til release because I wanted to go into it cold and experience the world itself from within. The game starts you off small, with "get your chip back from Benny" and that's about all I knew starting out. Having him shoot you in the beginning was a good motivator too, because it gave you a clear enemy who was very much not "the big bad". Sure, the chip lead to bigger things, but after you got it, the world is essentially "yours" to play with as a sandbox. And of course, there is still a "main plot", but that's mostly because serious shit is going down in the region that is kinda hard to ignore. I felt NV developed very organically, and I never felt "railroaded" into accomplishing something that I didn't want to. Only times I ever felt forced into anything was when NPCs had something I needed like an item or information and they used it as leverage on me, which is a fairly realistic approach, because face it, people can be dicks

[Lucius]

Dragon Age 2 tried something like this and generally failed. It had a series of "main quests" that were loosely connected to one another, moreso in theme than content. While if it was more of a sandbox, I think it would have worked better; even still I don't think it would have been as good as the original.

Additionally many gamers would lose focus with something like this. People prefer a plot to move them forward. This definitely would work as an MMO but not a single player RPG I think.

[CaptainPatch]

For DA2 and FNV and FO3 and ME and Skyrim (and a LOT more games), I find that the main quest gets in the way of all of those many, many side quests. It's like on the one hand you are being told, "You have to hurry! We're dying here!" But on the other hand, you got several game years of side quests that you can pursue NOW, and it won't matter one bit if you do because that hurry-hurry main quest will still be waiting patiently for you to get around to finishing it. Sort of kills the mood.

[Mandemon]

For DA2 and FNV and FO3 and ME and Skyrim (and a LOT more games), I find that the main quest gets in the way of all of those many, many side quests. It's like on the one hand you are being told, "You have to hurry! We're dying here!" But on the other hand, you got several game years of side quests that you can pursue NOW, and it won't matter one bit if you do because that hurry-hurry main quest will still be waiting patiently for you to get around to finishing it. Sort of kills the mood.

I don't think there was much of "HURRY! WE ARE DYING IN HERE!" with FNV. More like "We need to solve this problem. You! Take care of it".

Revenge quest was never something you were told to hurry.
NCR quest are mainly trying to find solution to whatever problem, but they never(except once) tell you that it's urgent and needs to be done yesterday.
Haven't done House, Legion or Independedt(working on this one now), so can't say for them.